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School zone arguments

civilwarguy

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
197
Location
elkhorn wi
"out of reach" is not always possible even in a vehicle. I have a truck and long arms so it is possible for me to reach virtually any where in the cab and if it is raining or snowing there is no way i am willing to leave my gun out in the open. hell i wont even leave it in the open of the bed going down the road for safety reasons so i guess if they decide to charge me with a violation i will just have to take my chances in court. As far as gun free zones all i can say is good thing i like exercise as it makes my going anywhere a long round about walk.
 

Max

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
335
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
"out of reach" is not always possible even in a vehicle. I have a truck and long arms so it is possible for me to reach virtually any where in the cab and if it is raining or snowing there is no way i am willing to leave my gun out in the open. hell i wont even leave it in the open of the bed going down the road for safety reasons so i guess if they decide to charge me with a violation i will just have to take my chances in court. As far as gun free zones all i can say is good thing i like exercise as it makes my going anywhere a long round about walk.

True enough. In the scenarios where it is not possible for the weapon to be "out of reach", I doubt you could be convicted of violating the CCW ban. In those scenarios I would hope the weight of the right overpowers the inability to comply with a statute.
 

LR Yote 312

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
458
Location
God's Country, Wi
My daily driver....other than my Harley....is a Jeep Wrangler.

Good luck keepin something out of reach.

Far as that goes...

I used to bungee the shotgun across the seat handles of the bike and head up to
Florence Wi. for Grouse passed many a State Trooper and County Sheriff....
Didnt even get bothered in Mich (a helmet State) and I refuse to wear a helmet.

Never had a problem.

I agree and think some are reading too much into the Laws

LR Yote
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
Below is one of Judge Watts statements in State v Pinnow. It appears on page 07/10.

" The testimony of Pinnow regarding the plastic case with foam interior expressly fitting his handgun matches the language of Section 167.31(1)(b) of the Wisconsin Statutes for an encased firearm. Compliance with Section 167.31 (1) and (2) of the Wisconsin Statutes always constitutes encasement and therefore concealment".

This statement could be important in an argument against the GFSZ statute. Essentially, in concert with the statement, compliance with 948.605 forces one to violate the concealed weapon statute 941.23. The WSC in Hamdan stated that 941.23 is a strict liability statute and without exception only a peace officer may go armed with a concealed and dangerous weapon(para 48). The WSC also ruled that concealement applies to unloaded as well as loaded firearms. 948.605 creates an exception that is not expressly allowed by 941.23. Also if judge watts statement withstands judicial muster then by the same token 167.31(2)(b) also creates an exception not within the strict liability declaration made by the WSC in Hamdan.

This ruling is much more significant than the unpublished ruling made in Alloy. Judge Watts ruling is a published ruling and published circuit court rulings may be cited as authority in any court. The importance of the ruling to our objectives is important. It is the first time a Wisconsin court has ruled that the encasement of a firearm always constitutes a concealed weapon. (emphasis on "always").

IANAL-- These are my opinions
 
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ccwinstructor

Centurion
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
919
Location
Yuma, Arizona, USA
I have two thoughts on the issue. ...


I don't think most politicians are even aware of those issues. They think the statute is an absolute protection of our children against mayhem....

I disagree. I don't think most politicians are that stupid. This law has *never* been about protecting children. It has *always* been about incrementally chipping away at our right to keep and bear arms. I think that any attack on it should always start with that premise, and the fact that the media frames the subject as a "protection of children issue" in order to control the debate. We should always mention that the first federal gun free school zone act was such an egregious expansion of federal power that the Supreme Court struck it down.

Following that framework with many of the points mentioned could well be worth while.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
Can anyone cite a statute or a court decision that requires an unloaded and encased firearm to be out of reach?

Can anyone cite a a statute or court decision that says a properly encased and unloaded firearm is a concealed weapon?

There has been no example brought forward in any of the nearly daily forum arguments of a conviction for CCW where someone had a legally "encased" firearm laying on the seat of their vehicle within reach which was not otherwise "hidden"...
 

paul@paul-fisher.com

Regular Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
There has been no example brought forward in any of the nearly daily forum arguments of a conviction for CCW where someone had a legally "encased" firearm laying on the seat of their vehicle within reach which was not otherwise "hidden"...

I know of none either. Another forum member, who most will recognize by the case, had her gun case on her passenger seat in plain sight and while she was detained, the district attorney dropped all charges. I would assume if he would of thought the 'out of reach' was a valid option, he would of used it.
 

Max

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
335
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
I know of none either. Another forum member, who most will recognize by the case, had her gun case on her passenger seat in plain sight and while she was detained, the district attorney dropped all charges. I would assume if he would of thought the 'out of reach' was a valid option, he would of used it.

Not necessarily. It could be that because her stop was illegal, the results of any illegal search has no bearing.
 
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