Seattle Police Dept Bulletin

[Mike]

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aktion wrote:

I am new to this forum, but have something to contribute. Any feedback is welcome, and I am eager to learn more from you all. I had no idea open carry was legal here in Washington until only recently.

Why are you contacting the police for legal advice?

 

[aktion]

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Thanks for the feedback. I am not contacting the police for legal advice. I contacted them for legal clarification. I found a comment on Wikipedia about open carry being legal; a reference to Mr Wilsons efforts concerning oc, and I sought clarification from my local PD legal counsel what departmental policy was on the matter. That way I know ahead of time, rather than assuming or believing what it is.

 

[expvideo]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

joeroket wrote:

Oh, I would never do a thing like that.

After reading it through a few times I am beginning to see that it is not as harsh as it was after the first read. They are actually telling the officer to make contact with and ID the complaintant first to verify if there was an actual crime. This is good news as they are indicating they do understand Casad and a Terry stop. They also tell the officers to consider and document any claims of self defense by the person with a firearm.

All in all I might have been a little hasty in my initial opinion of it. That still doesn't change my mind of the two guys running the department though.

Yeah, but they tell the officers to disarm you, which is illegal.

Re-read it. That's in response to an unlawful display call, not in response to an open carry call. They define the two, and that procedure is clearly listed under "unlawful display".

 

[deanf]

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Reads favorable to our position, really.

 

[Gray Peterson]

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Mike wrote:

aktion wrote:

I am new to this forum, but have something to contribute. Any feedback is welcome, and I am eager to learn more from you all. I had no idea open carry was legal here in Washington until only recently.

Why are you contacting the police for legal advice?

1) He's new. Cut him some slack

2) He provided us a missing document that we knew existed but Seattle PD repeatedly lied saying that it didn't exist.

 

[irfner]

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Welcome aktion. What a great first post.

Mike

 

[just_a_car]

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:

Very very interesting. You know what's really funny is that two months after that bulletin was published, I put in a PRA for exactly that document, but it was declined saying it didn't exist.

Ca-Ching$$$$

Go get 'em Lonnie! They should be "alarmed" at the thought of having you after them on legal grounds.... not on OC, though.

 

[carhas0]

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Thanks for getting that bulletin, aktion. As you already read, it came in handy for me this afternoon. (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum55/10257.html).

 

[Gray Peterson]

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5 dollars a day, every day, for withholding the record, for 6 months. That's the minimum, could be up to $100 a day.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:

5 dollars a day, every day, for withholding the record, for 6 months.  That's the minimum, could be up to $100 a day.

.....And WE get to foot the bill... how kind of them..:cuss:

 

[Gray Peterson]

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TechnoWeenie wrote:

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

5 dollars a day, every day, for withholding the record, for 6 months. That's the minimum, could be up to $100 a day.

.....And WE get to foot the bill... how kind of them..:cuss:

You know, maximum I can get out of this is around $18,000. I dunno, I'm thinking that maybe a used motorcycle with the sticker "Paid for by Seattle PD's stupidity" on it's gas tank would be cool, no?

I don't feel bad in the slightest for the tax payers, there's the ones who keep voting for idiots in the first place.

 

[sv_libertarian]

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:

TechnoWeenie wrote:

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

5 dollars a day, every day, for withholding the record, for 6 months. That's the minimum, could be up to $100 a day.

.....And WE get to foot the bill... how kind of them..:cuss:

You know, maximum I can get out of this is around $18,000. I dunno, I'm thinking that maybe a used motorcycle with the sticker "Paid for by Seattle PD's stupidity" on it's gas tank would be cool, no?

I don't feel bad in the slightest for the tax payers, there's the ones who keep voting for idiots in the first place.

Go get 'em! Don't forget to buy a gun with the money!

 

[surfj9009]

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

TechnoWeenie wrote:

Lonnie Wilson wrote:

5 dollars a day, every day, for withholding the record, for 6 months. That's the minimum, could be up to $100 a day.

.....And WE get to foot the bill... how kind of them..:cuss:

You know, maximum I can get out of this is around $18,000. I dunno, I'm thinking that maybe a used motorcycle with the sticker "Paid for by Seattle PD's stupidity" on it's gas tank would be cool, no?

I don't feel bad in the slightest for the tax payers, there's the ones who keep voting for idiots in the first place.

Go get 'em! Don't forget to buy a gun with the money!

Or ten.....

 

[just_a_car]

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Or, better yet, use at least half of what you get as a defense-fund for anyone that is wrongly accused of a crime while OC'ing. We've found in the past that lawyers won't take cases (such as expvideo's where there was obvious violations of his rights with evidence) without a substantial amount of capital up front.

This could be a great way to support those who support OC.

 

[Mainsail]

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Open records laws are for citizens, too

THE NEWS TRIBUNE Published: April 22nd, 2008 01:00 AM

Who’d have known there was a living to be made merely asking cities to obey the law?
David Koenig of Federal Way seems to be doing precisely that.

Earlier this month, a Pierce County Superior Court judge ordered the City of Lakewood to pay Koenig $40,000 for denying him public records relating to the arrest of a police officer in a prostitution sting. This is the latest of several awards, all for being denied documents he was entitled to under the state’s open records laws.

Koenig’s biggest take was $83,500 from the City of Des Moines. In that case, the city had refused to turn over documents dealing with the rape of his daughter, who was living with her mother and stepfather.

But his chief target has been records that expose alleged wrongdoing by cops. Some cities have been loath to release such documents to a private citizen who walks in and demands them. In the end, the cities turn over the records and a fat check.

Koenig’s modus operandi – embarrassing cops – isn’t endearing. But he wouldn’t be collecting a penny if local governments were routinely doing what they are legally bound to do. Whatever his motives, he’s exposing secretiveness in South Sound municipalities and highlighting the fact that open records laws aren’t just for media professionals.

The region’s largest jurisdictions appear to get it, for the most part. A new survey from the state auditor’s office – a sting operation, actually – indicates that such big cities as Tacoma and Seattle do give citizens the records they ask for, though some are quicker about it than others.

Nearly 9 out of 10 complied with the law. Judged in terms of “overall responsiveness,” Tacoma scored 10 out of 10; Pierce County scored nine out of 10. Seattle gave more of a runaround to auditors posing as citizens but still eventually delivered.

An attitude of openness and a habit of compliance need to spread to the likes of Tukwila and Buckley, which have also had to pay Koenig many thousands of dollars for failing to come clean on incidents involving police officers.

It makes you wonder if law schools teach open government at all, or if municipal attorneys are left to learn by trial and error – mostly error – once they take a job with a city.

Here’s a brief overview in the law, right from Washington’s Open Records Act:

“The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. . . . The public records subdivision of this chapter shall be liberally construed and its exemptions narrow construed to promote this public policy.”

That last sentence could be rephrased as follows: When in doubt, hand it over.

 

[surfj9009]

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Very interesting, so how does one submit a request you might ask?

http://www.atg.wa.gov/PublicRecords/default.aspx

So, say for example, I know of a particularly interesting ongoing multi million dollar civil lawsuit against the county for some seriously bad stuff that happened in 2003. (I.E. police brutality, excessive use of force, etc.) Now, due to my intuitive brain I think it is going to go against the county, maybe I should submit a request for the police reports and all statements, booking photos, etc relating to such huh?

It may be interesting to find out what the department has to disclose, or not disclose.
(See above article)

 

[LongRider]

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aktion wrote:

Thanks for the feedback. I am not contacting the police for legal advice. I contacted them for legal clarification. I found a comment on Wikipedia about open carry being legal; a reference to Mr Wilsons efforts concerning oc, and I sought clarification from my local PD legal counsel what departmental policy was on the matter. That way I know ahead of time, rather than assuming or believing what it is.

Good thinking. As informative as a website maybe you can never go wrong by verifying the information with a real world sources. In this case you also benefited all of us thank you.

Can anyone maybe the moderators take the various Washington state training bulletins and other Washington OC information papers pamphlets etc and consolidate them in one sticky thread or archive so we do not have to search all over the site to find what is available. Or has that already been done and I am just not bright enough to locate it?

 

[Gene Beasley]

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LongRider wrote:

Can anyone maybe the moderators take the various Washington state training bulletins and other Washington OC information papers pamphlets etc and consolidate them in one sticky thread or archive so we do not have to search all over the site to find what is available. Or has that already been done and I am just not bright enough to locate it?

The can be found at http://www.nwcdl.org/, which I wish was more active (forum-wise). They're under the Downloads & Reading section.

Sticky thread is not a feature of WoWBB.

 

[joeroket]

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underthebridge wrote:

LongRider wrote:

Can anyone maybe the moderators take the various Washington state training bulletins and other Washington OC information papers pamphlets etc and consolidate them in one sticky thread or archive so we do not have to search all over the site to find what is available. Or has that already been done and I am just not bright enough to locate it?

The can be found at http://www.nwcdl.org/, which I wish was more active (forum-wise).

Sticky thread is not a feature of WoWBB.

Funny you mention that. We have been testing a new portal to add more functionality to the site and hopefully get more traffic. Check it out for us and post your thoughts on http://forum.nwcdl.org

http://forumtest.nwcdl.org