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Seven people shot at Knoxville, TN church this morning

falcon1

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Jim675 wrote:
They just forgot that Jeanne Assam shot the bast@$% first. Funny that.
I noticed that, too, and was not surprised. The media has ignored Ms. Assam's role pretty much since they learned she was no longer a law enforcement officer.
 

johnnyb

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dkd wrote:
Dustin wrote:
There's a whole lot more to it than Gun Control.
1: The church promotes progressive social work, including advocacy of women and gay rights.
2: "He almost turned angry," she told the newspaper. "He seemed to get angry at that. He said that everything in the Bible contradicts itself if you read it." She also said Adkisson spoke frequently about his parents, who "made him go to church all his life. ... He acted like he was forced to do that."
1: A Church supporting Gay Rights ? :shock:

2:I believe this is a direct reflection of how the Theory ofEvolution hasBrainwashed America.
Hitler's Propaganda Minister:

If you tell a lie long enough, loud enough, and often enough, people will believe it.
The bible, christianity and organized religion as a whole could fall into this cartegory of brainwashedalso :idea:
no one forces religion on anyone else.

liberalism, socialism, fag rights, and othe disgusting nonsense is forced on kids everyday in school.
 

yeahYeah

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johnnyb wrote:
no one forces religion on anyone else.

liberalism, socialism, fag rights, and othe disgusting nonsense is forced on kids everyday in school.
i have to agree with you here. our schools are little socialist, liberal playgrounds
 

Doug Huffman

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moz-screenshot.jpg
http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/MomsPDFs/DDDoA.sml.pdf 11MB
 

Task Force 16

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From what I've heard it sounds as though the folks that jumped the guy did it while he was relaoding the shotgun. He was carrying a 12 gauge pump I believe and it apparently only held 3 rounds at a time. That's all he got off before he was subdued. He had over 75 shells with him.

Only three rounds fired, yet he managed to kill 2 people and wound many others. Imagine what it would have been like if he had walked in with a large mag semi-auto rifle or handgun, or worse, a full auto assault rifle.

Since this church seems to have liberal leanings, do you think they might learn something from this? We'll see. I doubt it though.
 

thx997303

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Johnnyb, please refrain from using the word fag. We have a few homosexual members, and last I checked, Fag was a derogatory term.
 

PT111

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Task Force 16 wrote:
From what I've heard it sounds as though the folks that jumped the guy did it while he was relaoding the shotgun. He was carrying a 12 gauge pump I believe and it apparently only held 3 rounds at a time. That's all he got off before he was subdued. He had over 75 shells with him.

Only three rounds fired, yet he managed to kill 2 people and wound many others. Imagine what it would have been like if he had walked in with a large mag semi-auto rifle or handgun, or worse, a full auto assault rifle.

Since this church seems to have liberal leanings, do you think they might learn something from this? We'll see. I doubt it though.
Only three shots!!!!!!! Does anyone still doubt the effectiveness of a a 12 ga? Killed 2 and injured 9. If he had been using a 1911 he would have had to reload and hit a different person with each shot to do that much damage unless some of the rounds overpenetrated. If he had been using an 870 he could have gotten 5 shots off before reloading. Thank God for little favors.
 

SlackwareRobert

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Just once I would like to see a honest headline...

"Seven defenceless citizens denied right to protect themselves were let down by LEO........ again"

Gee, the way Al Gore preaches I guess there are no weapons in his energy
gulping residence.:p
 

XD-GEM

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yale wrote:
In Louisiana it's illegal to carry in a church. When I first got my CC permit this fact amazed me since it was just after a local church had been shot up and 2 people killed. Not that I'm often in churches but I damn well will be carrying when I am.

Check the law carefully. In Louisiana, it's illegal to carry concealed in a church. I think you could legally OC, but you'd probably have to put up with a lot of dirty looks.

According to state law, I couldn't carry at my church without permission from the principal of our attached school, if I understand the lawcorrectly. It seems odd that the principal, who is an employee of the pastor, has more legal authority than the pastor, the way the law is written.
 

Doug Huffman

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http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/93126/tennessee_church_shooting_an_inevitable_consequence_of_shock-jocks%27_hateful_rhetoric/


Did Right-Wing Shock Jocks Motivate Knoxville Killer?

When police searched the car of the gunman who opened fire in a Unitarian Church in Tennessee, they found a 4-page letter expressing his hatred of the "liberal movement." A regular consumer of Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage and Sean Hannity, Jim David Adkisson was only following the arguments they make day in and day out to their logical conclusions.
From the Knoxville News Sentinel:
Police found right-wing political books, brass knuckles, empty shotgun shell boxes and a handgun in the Powell home of a man who said he attacked a church in order to kill liberals "who are ruining the country," court records show.​
Knoxville police Sunday evening searched the Levy Drive home of Jim David Adkisson after he allegedly entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church and killed two people and wounded six others during the presentation of a children's musical.​
Adkisson targeted the church ... "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets."​
Adkisson [said] that "he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office."​
Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly.​
The shotgun-wielding suspect in Sunday's mass shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was motivated by a hatred of "the liberal movement," and he planned to shoot until police shot him, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV said this morning.​
"eliminationist" rhetoric -- putting forth the idea that one's opponents are not simply in disagreement, do not simply have a different and competing political philosophy, do not just believe that their approach to solving problems is superior but are bent on destroying the country, the culture, even the family unit from within. And, more importantly, that they must be destroyed or exiled.
Consider the narratives we hear so frequently, from right-wing talk radio, to the right-blogs to Fox News. Liberals are traitors. Liberals hate the troops, stab them in the back, hate America. They are "anti-family", they hate God. They want America to be destroyed by its enemies, whether Soviet shock troops or "Islamofascist" terrorists.
I'm not denying for a second that progressives and liberals are filled with anumus towards the right, but it is an animus of a different nature. Most progressives believe that conservative leaders are greedy, self-interested and represent only the interests of the very wealthy, and their followers are simply chumps dazzled by social issues into voting against their own interests. We don't consider them to be bent on the destruction of our country (even if some of us believe that is the likely outcome of their governance).
The difference manifests itself, not infrequently, in incidents like what went down in Tennessee. It's certainly not isolated -- just last week, a group of teens beat a Latino migrant to death. And why not? People like Michelle Malkin don't make arguments about the costs and benefits of immigration; they paint a picture of an invading army bent on our destruction. They say that illegal immigration is part of a plot to "reconquer" parts of America -- literally to annex the SouthWest. Abortion clinics are bombed, and providers are assassinated, and the bombers and assassins inevitably see the procedure as "killing babies" -- who wouldn't act to stop actual babies from being killed?
When people view themselves as facing an existential threat to their nation, to their very way of life, they defend themselves -- it's a natural reaction. It appears that Jim David Adkisson, unemployed, no doubt mentally disturbed, believed he was taking action to defend his country, his community. He did it because of "his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets." A picture-perfect summary of the back-lash conservative message. It was a predictable consequence of the constant cries of DolchStoß from the backlash right.
Of course, when one points this out one is immediately derided as an enemy of free speech, even if one never even suggests that this kind of speech should be regulated in any way. The hate-peddlers use "free speech" as a shield from criticism, as if it means the freedom to not have one's speech examined or condemned.
I'm not advocating censorship here, but at the same time, I think it's important to note that inciting people to violence is not a protected form of speech. In Rwanda, the genocide of 800,000 people was spurred on by extremists on the radio -- Rwanda's Shock-Jocks -- who said that it was every loyal Hutu's duty to wipe out the "cockroaches" who were destroying the country, and that speech was condemned as a crime against humanity.
 

Doug Huffman

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http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/jul/28/church-shooting-police-find-manifesto-suspects-car/

Bill O'Reilly, Michael Savage, Sean Hannity on accused shooter's reading list 4-page letter outlines frustration, hatred of 'liberal movement'
Police found right-wing political books, brass knuckles, empty shotgun shell boxes and a handgun in the Powell home of a man who said he attacked a church in order to kill liberals "who are ruining the country," court records show.
Knoxville police Sunday evening searched the Levy Drive home of Jim David Adkisson after he allegedly entered the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church and killed two people and wounded six others during the presentation of a children's musical.
Knoxville Police Department Officer Steve Still requested the search warrant after interviewing Adkisson. who was subdued by several church members after firing three rounds from a 12-gauge shotgun into the congregation.
Adkisson targeted the church, Still wrote in the document obtained by WBIR-TV, Channel 10, "because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country's hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets."
Adkisson told Still that "he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them in to office."
Adkisson told officers he left the house unlocked for them because "he expected to be killed during the assault."
Inside the house, officers found "Liberalism is a Mental Health Disorder" by radio talk show host Michael Savage, "Let Freedom Ring" by talk show host Sean Hannity, and "The O'Reilly Factor," by television talk show host Bill O'Reilly.
The shotgun-wielding suspect in Sunday's mass shooting at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church was motivated by a hatred of "the liberal movement," and he planned to shoot until police shot him, Knoxville Police Chief Sterling P. Owen IV said this morning.
Adkisson, 58, of Powell wrote a four-page letter in which he stated his "hatred of the liberal movement," Owen said. "Liberals in general, as well as gays."
Adkisson said he also was frustrated about not being able to obtain a job, Owen said.
The letter, recovered from Adkisson's black 2004 Ford Escape, which was parked in the church's parking lot at 2931 Kingston Pike, indicates he had been planning the shooting for about a week.
"He fully expected to be killed by the responding police," the police chief said.
Owen said Adkisson specifically targeted the church for its beliefs, rather than a particular member of the congregation.
"It appears that church had received some publicity regarding its liberal stance," the chief said. The church has a "gays welcome" sign and regularly runs announcements in the News Sentinel about meetings of the Parents, Friends and Family of Lesbians and Gays meetings at the church.
Owen said Adkisson's stated hatred of the liberal movement was not necessarily connected to any hostility toward Christianity or religion per say, but rather the political advocacy of the church.
The church's Web site states that it has worked for "desegregation, racial harmony, fair wages, women's rights and gay rights" since the 1950s. Current ministries involve emergency aid for the needy, school tutoring and support for the homeless, as well as a cafe that provides a gathering place for gay and lesbian high-schoolers.
Adkisson does not appear to be a member of any church himself, Owen said.
"In his written statement, he does not ascribe to any affiliation," the chief said. "It does not appear he's a member of any organized group."
Officers recovered 76 shells for a 12-gauge, semiautomatic shotgun inside the church. Among those shells were three spent rounds. He had carried the shotgun inside the church in a guitar case, Owen said.
"He certainly intended to take a lot of casualties," the chief said.
Adkisson is accused of killing two people and injuring seven others. He is charged with first-degree murder in the death of Greg McKendry, 60. Also killed in the shooting was Linda Kraeger, 61, who was visiting the church from Westside Unitarian Universalist Church.
Injured were Joe Barnhart, 76, and Jack Barnhart, 69, who are brothers; Betty Barnhart, 71; Linda Chavez, 41; John Worth Jr., 68; Tammy Sommers, 38; and Allison Lee, 42. Jack and Joe Barnhart are brothers, and Jack and Betty Barnhart are married.
At about 10:25 a.m., two staffers from Second Presbyterian Church next door, placed a large flower arrangement from their church's sanctuary atop TVUUC's sign along Kingston Pike.
"Our hearts go out to this church. This is our community. We love these people," said Julie Lothrop, assistant to the pastor.
The shooting began at 10:18 a.m. Adkisson was arrested minutes later after being restrained by church members.
Three of those wounded remain in critical or serious condition at the University of Tennessee Medical Center. Two others were treated at a local hospital and released. One of those suffered an injury when trampled as worshippers left the church.
The letter was not addressed to anyone but was signed by Adkisson, Owen said.
Adkisson's criminal history includes a DUI in Calfornia and in Clinton.
He had been a member of the U.S. Army's 101st Airborne, according to Owen.
Public Defender Mark Stephens' office has been appointed to represent Adkisson.
Through a spokeswoman this morning, Stephens said he could not comment.
If the suspect's own resume is accurate, Owen said, Adkisson worked in a variety of places across the country and most recently worked in Knoxville in 2006. The chief did not specify where Adkisson last held a job. Adkisson also holds an associates degree in mechanical engineering.
More than 200 people were packed into the church's sanctuary watching the children's musical, "Annie Jr." when a gunman opened fire.
McKendry, according to witnesses and police, confronted Adkisson, who shot him with a 12-gauge shotgun.
Witness Barbara Kemper said Adkisson walked past the area where children were awaiting their stage call and into the sanctuary.
Witnesses said Adkisson did not aim the shotgun at children but focused on the pews filled with adults. The first blast left many wondering if the disabling boom was part of the musical program.
"We heard the first shot," said Marty Murphy, 66, a church member since 2000. "It sounded like a bomb went off. We thought it was part of the program at first.
"The second shot is when everyone started calling 911 and telling everyone to get down."
Murphy and others said Adkisson didn't say a thing before he began firing. Kemper, however, said Adkisson was yelling "something hateful."
Witnesses said Adkisson had a fanny pack around his waist that contained extra shells for his shotgun.
"There were shotgun shells all over the place, so he must have thought he was going to get more shots in," Murphy said. "He had those shells everywhere.
"Who would have thought, here in Knoxville?" she said.
News Sentinel staff writers Bob Fowler, J.J. Stambaugh, Frank Munger and Amy McRary contributed to this story.
More details as they develop online and in Tuesday's News Sentinel.
News Sentinel staff writers Bob Fowler, J.J. Stambaugh, Frank Munger and Amy McRary contributed to this story.
[align=center] © 2008, Knoxville News Sentinel Co.
[/align]
 

Doug Huffman

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http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

BLAMING RIGHT-WING HATE RADIO The people of Tennessee are sadly suffering the loss of loved ones after a terrible shooting at a church over the weekend. Naturally, fingers began pointing as to what is to blame for the shooter's irrational behavior ... and they have finally landed on talk radio. Look ... when you're a liberal, and you hate talk radio because your peeps just can't succeed in the venue ... you do what you can to discredit and even destroy it.
Take a look at this headline: "Tennessee Church Shooting an Inevitable Consequence of Shock-Jocks' Hateful Rhetoric." The tagline underneath that reads: "Hateful talk about one's enemies undermining the nation leads to hateful acts in response."
All of this was surmised from a piece in the Knoxville New Sentinel, which brought to light more information about the shooter. We know from the note that was left in his car that he had a hatred of the "liberal movement." He was apparently a regular listener to talk radio (yours truly not included). Police found "right-wing political books" (OMG!) in his home that were written by talk radio hosts. No .. mine wasn't one of them. Based on these facts, the blame now falls on talk radio for creating this monster. The motive behind this blog submission is, I believe, to continue setting the stage for censorship. If you can't handle what your ideological opponent is saying, they find a way to silence him. If you want to resort to infantile screams of "hate speech" and "shock jocks," well, fine. If that works for you.
Meanwhile, perhaps the most telling information that has been given to us is the fact that this low-life said "he also was frustrated about not being able to obtain a job." He's a loser. He couldn't even get himself a job. Chimpanzees could run fry French fries at McDonalds; but apparently not this guy.
Look folks. What happened in Tennessee was tragic, but it is fruitless to try and blame the situation on talk radio. I have a great idea ... why don't we impose the Fairness Doctrine that way hate-mongers will no longer be able to influence low-lifes like this Tennessee shooter.
 

deepdiver

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Yeah, it was conservative talk radio that caused this. Which is why another 29,999,999 other conservative talk radio listeners are appalled by the shooting and would never even fleetingly consider such behavior. Gotta love the leftists in the media. If a liberal or a muslim commits a heinous, appalling act it is because they are confused, misguided or mentally unstable but always they were acting alone and not indicative of any larger issues, whereas if an avowed conservative commits a heinous, appalling act it is because the conservative perspective and all who subscribe to it are evil, misguided, violent fomenting radicals who hate everyone who is not like them.

It's really simple media types - there are evil people in the world who do evil things and there are mentally unhinged people in the world who do evil things and others less easily categorized who do evil things, but make no mistake that those inclined to do evil things will always find justification somewhere, somehow for their evil acts. People who commit evil acts come from all walks of life and all political perspectives. That is why I carry a sidearm. I can no more identify those who might commit an evil act than the "system" and we must all be vigilant and aware to stop evil as quickly as possible when it raises its head to harm others.
 

imperialism2024

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deepdiver wrote:
Yeah, it was conservative talk radio that caused this. Which is why another 29,999,999 other conservative talk radio listeners are appalled by the shooting and would never even fleetingly consider such behavior. Gotta love the leftists in the media. If a liberal or a muslim commits a heinous, appalling act it is because they are confused, misguided or mentally unstable but always they were acting alone and not indicative of any larger issues, whereas if an avowed conservative commits a heinous, appalling act it is because the conservative perspective and all who subscribe to it are evil, misguided, violent fomenting radicals who hate everyone who is not like them.

It's really simple media types - there are evil people in the world who do evil things and there are mentally unhinged people in the world who do evil things and others less easily categorized who do evil things, but make no mistake that those inclined to do evil things will always find justification somewhere, somehow for their evil acts. People who commit evil acts come from all walks of life and all political perspectives. That is why I carry a sidearm. I can no more identify those who might commit an evil act than the "system" and we must all be vigilant and aware to stop evil as quickly as possible when it raises its head to harm others.
Gotta give a +1 to you there, DD.

But if there were no sociological trends to blame for mass shootings, or to speculate about as blame for mass shootings, what would be left for the media to talk about? Oh, yeah, the fact that it was a "gun-free zone"...

What is worrisome, though, is that the two-party system (not conservative talk radio exclusively) is being brought up as a cause for violence. Hopefully it's just media hyperbole and not a foreshadowing of more events to come closer to, and after November.
 
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