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Shocking non-knock raid suggests police procedure needs to be reigned in
- Thread starter Max
- Start date
Nelson_Muntz
Campaign Veteran
imported post
If this same thing happened to 50 Governors or 50-100 Senators, it would be forever banned.
If this same thing happened to 50 Governors or 50-100 Senators, it would be forever banned.
Thundar
Regular Member
imported post
Weak 9mm wrote:
Weak 9mm wrote:
Fixed # 4, sorry.
S.E.WI
Regular Member
imported post
"I don't like people controlling what I do or don't do to my body or what anyone else does or doesn't do to theirs, I think there's something fundamentally wrong with that. Now, I don't think you should be able to do something to someone elses body, but what you do to yourself shouldn't be anyone's business."
[line]
I have to agree with just about everything you said.
We actually have a larger problem with the legal drugs today. Drug companies, pushers, advertise their new wonder drugs on T.V. and have their representatives take doctors out for lunch in the hopes it will sell more of their drug. What I've also noticed is that about a year later I see T.V. ads from law offices asking people to contact them because of problems with many of these drugs.We can't trust the FDA with legal drug claims so we sure as heck can't trust them about how bad one is either.
The abuse of police power has been hiding in plain sight all along. Good call. I would like to make an informed decision about any drug and we should be able to count on the FDA's findings, we're paying for it. As you can see, government against the people again.
"I don't like people controlling what I do or don't do to my body or what anyone else does or doesn't do to theirs, I think there's something fundamentally wrong with that. Now, I don't think you should be able to do something to someone elses body, but what you do to yourself shouldn't be anyone's business."
[line]
I have to agree with just about everything you said.
We actually have a larger problem with the legal drugs today. Drug companies, pushers, advertise their new wonder drugs on T.V. and have their representatives take doctors out for lunch in the hopes it will sell more of their drug. What I've also noticed is that about a year later I see T.V. ads from law offices asking people to contact them because of problems with many of these drugs.We can't trust the FDA with legal drug claims so we sure as heck can't trust them about how bad one is either.
The abuse of police power has been hiding in plain sight all along. Good call. I would like to make an informed decision about any drug and we should be able to count on the FDA's findings, we're paying for it. As you can see, government against the people again.
DonTreadOnMe
Regular Member
imported post
Doug Huffman wrote:
I am at a loss of words to express my contempt.
:cuss:
Doug Huffman wrote:
I am at a loss of words to express my contempt.
:cuss:
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
AZkopper wrote:
AZkopper wrote:
Thanks for the cites.
Doug Huffman
Banned
imported post
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.drugraid02sep02,0,5223646.story
None of us is safe from police raids
Prince George's County case offers a window into the brutal reality of paramilitary-style no-knock drug invasions By Vera Leone September 2, 2008 Imagine you're Cheye Calvo, the white mayor of Berwyn Heights, an affluent part of Prince George's County. Coming home one night in late July, you find on your front porch a large package that, unbeknownst to you, happens to contain a lot of marijuana. As it turns out, your spouse is the victim of a drug-smuggling scheme that targets innocent customers in the UPS system. You bring the box inside; moments later, the SWAT officers standing by break in and shoot your two beautiful Labradors. As the dogs lie there bleeding to death, you're held in the same room, handcuffed for hours. Nearly a month later, you have yet to receive an apology.
Because of who he is, the nation knows what happened to Mr. Calvo a few weeks ago. Here's what most Americans don't know: There are perhaps 40,000 such raids each year, according to a Cato Institute report, "Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America."
Now try to imagine that instead of a middle-class white man in the Maryland suburbs, you're a young Latino boy in Modesto, Calif. Shortly before dawn, in early September 2000, a SWAT team forces its way into your house. Thirty seconds later, although you comply with police orders to lie face down on the floor, you are dead from a shotgun blast to the back. The officer responsible is later cleared of wrongdoing in what is concluded an accidental shooting - though it was not the first time his weapon had "accidentally" discharged during a raid. Alberto Sepulveda had just begun the seventh grade.
Or say you're 57 and getting ready for work in May 2003. A battering ram breaks down your door shortly after 6 a.m., and a flash grenade is tossed inside. You're coughing, you can't breathe, while the police search for a stash of drugs and guns they'll never find because it isn't there. Alberta Spruill, a church volunteer and city worker in Harlem, died of a heart attack on the way to the hospital.
Or you're a fierce 92-year-old Atlanta woman, frightened by the sounds of someone prying off the burglar bars that cover your door but determined to protect your home. The door is broken down; you fire one shot at the intruders before being shot at 39 times, handcuffed and left to die while the police (who have broken down the wrong door) realize their mistake and plant drugs in your basement. Two of the cops responsible for Kathryn Johnston's death pleaded guilty to manslaughter last year; a third was recently convicted of lying in the cover-up.
Many lives are lost, and many more are ruined, by these paramilitary operations in the ever-widening circles of survivors and families of those killed. You're in extra danger if you happen to be poor or a person of color.
No-knock warrants may be justified in unusual circumstances. But unreasonable, routine no-knock raids must be stopped. Police should do their homework beforehand, show restraint and use the minimum amount of force necessary in a situation. They must take extraordinary care not to enter the wrong house when conducting a raid. Most important, they need to be held accountable to the communities they serve.
The fact is, raids like the one on Mayor Calvo's home violate every precept of American liberty that is held up as integral to our "free" society. We can no longer allow our supposedly democratic government to terrorize communities across the country with the very tactics that are publicly decried when used by defense contractors and our own military in Iraq.
Unfortunately, racism in political structures and security forces still dictates who matters and who doesn't - and for the most part, violence against those who don't is tolerated. Because the vast majority of these raids are against poor people of color, we hear very little about them.
That's what makes the Berwyn Heights case so potentially important: It is opening a window into the realities lived every day by innocent victims and survivors of the ineffective and destructive "war on drugs." Let's remember this case, keep this window open, and use it to address the misguided (at best), unjust and indisputably failed drug war policies that are destroying the fabric of our society.
Vera Leone is Internet communications associate for the Drug Policy Alliance. Her e-mail is vleone@drugpolicy.org.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bal-op.drugraid02sep02,0,5223646.story
None of us is safe from police raids
Prince George's County case offers a window into the brutal reality of paramilitary-style no-knock drug invasions By Vera Leone September 2, 2008 Imagine you're Cheye Calvo, the white mayor of Berwyn Heights, an affluent part of Prince George's County. Coming home one night in late July, you find on your front porch a large package that, unbeknownst to you, happens to contain a lot of marijuana. As it turns out, your spouse is the victim of a drug-smuggling scheme that targets innocent customers in the UPS system. You bring the box inside; moments later, the SWAT officers standing by break in and shoot your two beautiful Labradors. As the dogs lie there bleeding to death, you're held in the same room, handcuffed for hours. Nearly a month later, you have yet to receive an apology.
Because of who he is, the nation knows what happened to Mr. Calvo a few weeks ago. Here's what most Americans don't know: There are perhaps 40,000 such raids each year, according to a Cato Institute report, "Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America."
Now try to imagine that instead of a middle-class white man in the Maryland suburbs, you're a young Latino boy in Modesto, Calif. Shortly before dawn, in early September 2000, a SWAT team forces its way into your house. Thirty seconds later, although you comply with police orders to lie face down on the floor, you are dead from a shotgun blast to the back. The officer responsible is later cleared of wrongdoing in what is concluded an accidental shooting - though it was not the first time his weapon had "accidentally" discharged during a raid. Alberto Sepulveda had just begun the seventh grade.
Or say you're 57 and getting ready for work in May 2003. A battering ram breaks down your door shortly after 6 a.m., and a flash grenade is tossed inside. You're coughing, you can't breathe, while the police search for a stash of drugs and guns they'll never find because it isn't there. Alberta Spruill, a church volunteer and city worker in Harlem, died of a heart attack on the way to the hospital.
Or you're a fierce 92-year-old Atlanta woman, frightened by the sounds of someone prying off the burglar bars that cover your door but determined to protect your home. The door is broken down; you fire one shot at the intruders before being shot at 39 times, handcuffed and left to die while the police (who have broken down the wrong door) realize their mistake and plant drugs in your basement. Two of the cops responsible for Kathryn Johnston's death pleaded guilty to manslaughter last year; a third was recently convicted of lying in the cover-up.
Many lives are lost, and many more are ruined, by these paramilitary operations in the ever-widening circles of survivors and families of those killed. You're in extra danger if you happen to be poor or a person of color.
No-knock warrants may be justified in unusual circumstances. But unreasonable, routine no-knock raids must be stopped. Police should do their homework beforehand, show restraint and use the minimum amount of force necessary in a situation. They must take extraordinary care not to enter the wrong house when conducting a raid. Most important, they need to be held accountable to the communities they serve.
The fact is, raids like the one on Mayor Calvo's home violate every precept of American liberty that is held up as integral to our "free" society. We can no longer allow our supposedly democratic government to terrorize communities across the country with the very tactics that are publicly decried when used by defense contractors and our own military in Iraq.
Unfortunately, racism in political structures and security forces still dictates who matters and who doesn't - and for the most part, violence against those who don't is tolerated. Because the vast majority of these raids are against poor people of color, we hear very little about them.
That's what makes the Berwyn Heights case so potentially important: It is opening a window into the realities lived every day by innocent victims and survivors of the ineffective and destructive "war on drugs." Let's remember this case, keep this window open, and use it to address the misguided (at best), unjust and indisputably failed drug war policies that are destroying the fabric of our society.
Vera Leone is Internet communications associate for the Drug Policy Alliance. Her e-mail is vleone@drugpolicy.org.
irish
Regular Member
imported post
So if you kill a police dog isn't it the same as killing an officer? So I've heard... If that's the case wouldn't this be the same as killing 2 innocent people?
Never mind... "We're here to protect you." If the government is here to protect us who will protect us from them???
So if you kill a police dog isn't it the same as killing an officer? So I've heard... If that's the case wouldn't this be the same as killing 2 innocent people?
Never mind... "We're here to protect you." If the government is here to protect us who will protect us from them???
Doug Huffman
Banned
imported post
John Browning
John Browning
forever_frost
Regular Member
imported post
I wonder what the mayor would have been charged with if he had been a gun owner and opened fire on the intruders? Then it gets fuzzy. You have an upstanding citizen who is a mayor who shoots and kills one or several officers who are doing a dynamic entry into his home.
And then after he's cleared (we hope) of charges because he was just protecting himself, he didn't appologize to the officers because he "felt threatened" if the cops would throw a fit.
I also wonder if the cops ever got around to paying for the blood they tracked through the house on the carpet and replacing the front door they destroyed.
I wonder what the mayor would have been charged with if he had been a gun owner and opened fire on the intruders? Then it gets fuzzy. You have an upstanding citizen who is a mayor who shoots and kills one or several officers who are doing a dynamic entry into his home.
And then after he's cleared (we hope) of charges because he was just protecting himself, he didn't appologize to the officers because he "felt threatened" if the cops would throw a fit.
I also wonder if the cops ever got around to paying for the blood they tracked through the house on the carpet and replacing the front door they destroyed.
ilbob
Campaign Veteran
imported post
forever_frost wrote:
forever_frost wrote:
Law suits for this kind of misbehavior need to be in the multiple millions or tens of millions of dollars with punitive damages tacked on. thats the only thing that can stop them right now since the courts and legislatures refuse to.
DenWin
Regular Member
imported post
Even deployed to Iraq as an Infantryman, we RARELY do no-knock raids. We do what's called a tactical call out, which is just what it sounds like: surround the house, get 360 security, and call them out, upping the force every couple of calls, flashbang, nine-banger, grenade, and finally just take the house down if no one still comes out. I think they are good for certain situations, but I have never come across one, yet. Though I don't know how many LEOs are involved in a raid at one time, so my point of view may be a little scewed
Even deployed to Iraq as an Infantryman, we RARELY do no-knock raids. We do what's called a tactical call out, which is just what it sounds like: surround the house, get 360 security, and call them out, upping the force every couple of calls, flashbang, nine-banger, grenade, and finally just take the house down if no one still comes out. I think they are good for certain situations, but I have never come across one, yet. Though I don't know how many LEOs are involved in a raid at one time, so my point of view may be a little scewed
forever_frost
Regular Member
imported post
I'm with you Den. If we're held to that standard in Iraq, why aren't the LEO's here?
I'm with you Den. If we're held to that standard in Iraq, why aren't the LEO's here?
DenWin
Regular Member
imported post
forever_frost wrote:
Well, one theory for you on the standard issue, even though I'm in a different country, we're always in the spotlight. Local LEO actions can go unnoticed a lot of the time for the simple fact that it is there around you and always visible. They also aren't taking into account that one of the occupants could be a suicide vestimprovised explosive device (SVIED) or the structure it self could be a house borne IED (HBIED). Even so, I always watch SWAT, HRT, TNT, *insert three letter acronym or extended three letter acronym [ie 4 letters] here* stack up right next to the door and think to myself, 'wow, there just right there, waiting, ready to get shot like ducks in a row' :banghead:but that's a different story for a different time
EDIT: Also, with the tactical call outs, we have not lost a single soldier yet :celebrate
forever_frost wrote:
Well, one theory for you on the standard issue, even though I'm in a different country, we're always in the spotlight. Local LEO actions can go unnoticed a lot of the time for the simple fact that it is there around you and always visible. They also aren't taking into account that one of the occupants could be a suicide vestimprovised explosive device (SVIED) or the structure it self could be a house borne IED (HBIED). Even so, I always watch SWAT, HRT, TNT, *insert three letter acronym or extended three letter acronym [ie 4 letters] here* stack up right next to the door and think to myself, 'wow, there just right there, waiting, ready to get shot like ducks in a row' :banghead:but that's a different story for a different time
EDIT: Also, with the tactical call outs, we have not lost a single soldier yet :celebrate
forever_frost
Regular Member
imported post
True. I've watched a lot of SWAT shows where you have everyone flagging the doors and windows, their heads popped up siloetted in a window and so forth and just sit there thinking "One soldier with PTSD could take everyone out."
True. I've watched a lot of SWAT shows where you have everyone flagging the doors and windows, their heads popped up siloetted in a window and so forth and just sit there thinking "One soldier with PTSD could take everyone out."
DenWin
Regular Member
imported post
Like I said, I wouldn't use those tactics at all;I like the stand off. But also like I said, I'm looking at this from a completely different view point. We also worry a lot about neighbors being security, which is the big reason for 360 out here.
Like I said, I wouldn't use those tactics at all;I like the stand off. But also like I said, I'm looking at this from a completely different view point. We also worry a lot about neighbors being security, which is the big reason for 360 out here.
Thundar
Regular Member
imported post
forever_frost wrote:
forever_frost wrote:
Probably depends on where he lives. In Chesapeake, VA. they call in a special prosecutor who lies to ensure bail is denied and keeps you locked up for over a year awaiting trial. You are charged with capital murder and then the special prosecutor tries to get the venue changed because the local population actually understands the context of what has happened (and the special prosecutor blames the "bloggers" for uncovering his lies!!!)
forever_frost
Regular Member
imported post
Just tell me that if this happens to me, and I shoot a LOT of people, that yall will have my back. I have PTSD and have firearms in EVERY room of this house and 4 in the kitchen.
Just tell me that if this happens to me, and I shoot a LOT of people, that yall will have my back. I have PTSD and have firearms in EVERY room of this house and 4 in the kitchen.