KBCraig
Regular Member
imported post
GreatWhiteLlama wrote:
Ditto, and ditto.
GreatWhiteLlama wrote:
Ditto, and ditto.
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Shooting at My Safeway
- Thread starter DEROS72
- Start date
Tawnos
Regular Member
imported post
DEROS72 wrote:
DEROS72 wrote:
Care to defend your point with more than unbacked hyperbole? I put forth a pretty clear scenario, what are your thoughts? What makes those substances so "evil" they must be banned?
antispam540
Regular Member
imported post
Tolerance is different than acceptance. We're starting to draw a legal line between things that may be morally reprehensible and things that are ethically reprehensible, when there weren't necessarily distinctions 50 years ago.
I was raised in a strictly anti-drug household, but I'm beginning to believe that some drugs aren't as bad as I was told. Things like meth, heroin, and cocaine are obviously psychotropic, highly addictive, and physically unhealthy, but the current reason they ruin lives (besides the overdoses and drugged-out behavior) is the financial destruction and fear of the consequences of getting help. Hemp isn't a drug and can't be used to make drugs, but it's banned in many forms anyway. Marijuana has fewer side effects than alcohol or cigarette smoke, and it may fight cancer and help with a multitude of chronic illnesses.
Things are rarely black and white, and, while we have certain ingrained social beliefs, it's important to continually question our assumptions and ask why we think the way we do.
The founders of the Constitution tolerated actions and beliefs of others that were not necessarily congruent with their own. That doesn't mean they agreed with those actions or beliefs - they were quite vocal about their opinions (some remind me of the flame wars we see around here now and then), but they lost nothing by respecting the views of others.
Is this a childish viewpoint? Am I succumbing to the politically correct mush that permeates the media? I think the difference is that I don't fall over myself congratulating same-sex couples on their "bravery", I don't speak spanish, and I don't observe muslim holidays. Some people here do, and that's fine, it's just not for me.
Tolerance is different than acceptance. We're starting to draw a legal line between things that may be morally reprehensible and things that are ethically reprehensible, when there weren't necessarily distinctions 50 years ago.
I was raised in a strictly anti-drug household, but I'm beginning to believe that some drugs aren't as bad as I was told. Things like meth, heroin, and cocaine are obviously psychotropic, highly addictive, and physically unhealthy, but the current reason they ruin lives (besides the overdoses and drugged-out behavior) is the financial destruction and fear of the consequences of getting help. Hemp isn't a drug and can't be used to make drugs, but it's banned in many forms anyway. Marijuana has fewer side effects than alcohol or cigarette smoke, and it may fight cancer and help with a multitude of chronic illnesses.
Things are rarely black and white, and, while we have certain ingrained social beliefs, it's important to continually question our assumptions and ask why we think the way we do.
The founders of the Constitution tolerated actions and beliefs of others that were not necessarily congruent with their own. That doesn't mean they agreed with those actions or beliefs - they were quite vocal about their opinions (some remind me of the flame wars we see around here now and then), but they lost nothing by respecting the views of others.
Is this a childish viewpoint? Am I succumbing to the politically correct mush that permeates the media? I think the difference is that I don't fall over myself congratulating same-sex couples on their "bravery", I don't speak spanish, and I don't observe muslim holidays. Some people here do, and that's fine, it's just not for me.
Magister
Regular Member
imported post
Damnit, where's the punisher when you need him to deal with druggie trash?!
Damnit, where's the punisher when you need him to deal with druggie trash?!
ShooterMcGavin
Regular Member
imported post
grishnavand Tawnos, I completely agree!
grishnavand Tawnos, I completely agree!
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Tawnos wrote:
+100 for Tawnos and Grishnav, not for the first time.
Tawnos wrote:
God damn do I ever prefer the Washington forum to the Montana one.
+100 for Tawnos and Grishnav, not for the first time.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
grishnav wrote:
grishnav wrote:
:lol:
fire suppressor
Regular Member
imported post
Sounds like your a good guy to have around. My only concern is it almost sounds like your starting to plat a police role just a tad.
Sounds like your a good guy to have around. My only concern is it almost sounds like your starting to plat a police role just a tad.
KBCraig
Regular Member
imported post
Boo Boo wrote:
But yeah, I was curious about that. Several incidents in the same store within a week or two? Nothing in the news?
Boo Boo wrote:
Hey, you're derailing our discussion on Prohibition!
But yeah, I was curious about that. Several incidents in the same store within a week or two? Nothing in the news?
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
I've never understood how dogmatic intolerance could ever be viewed as compatible with a truly free society as envisioned by (some of) our Founding Fathers.
In my view, it's the mindless, fear-ridden hate that permeates the modern "right" which drives so many people so far away.
It's this hate, and, yes, intolerance which drives millions of potentially reasonable, borderline Americans over to the modern "left", where they are in inculcated with the rabidly aggressive pseudo-liberalism found there.
I've never understood how dogmatic intolerance could ever be viewed as compatible with a truly free society as envisioned by (some of) our Founding Fathers.
In my view, it's the mindless, fear-ridden hate that permeates the modern "right" which drives so many people so far away.
It's this hate, and, yes, intolerance which drives millions of potentially reasonable, borderline Americans over to the modern "left", where they are in inculcated with the rabidly aggressive pseudo-liberalism found there.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
imported post
Boo Boo wrote:
Boo Boo wrote:
Don't surprise me, I lived in Stielicom area at a time whenpeople would get shot and it wouldn't make the news.
imported post
No it didn't make the news I looked .And in no circumstances am I playing a police role ,or ever have or intend to.And will continue to stop there for coffee and a paper.Hell ,I called the cops that one time someone was threatening me up there(many of you know what happened).As for tolerance how much lower are we going to bring our standards in this countrydown into the gutter in the name of tolerance. That is all I will say about that.
No it didn't make the news I looked .And in no circumstances am I playing a police role ,or ever have or intend to.And will continue to stop there for coffee and a paper.Hell ,I called the cops that one time someone was threatening me up there(many of you know what happened).As for tolerance how much lower are we going to bring our standards in this countrydown into the gutter in the name of tolerance. That is all I will say about that.
Mainsail
Regular Member
imported post
Yeesh, I never meant to cause any thread creep with my comment. I wasn't endorsing the legalization of drugs, in fact I don't believe that's the answer. Without debating illegal drugs individually, let's just say that what's illegal is illegal, and engaging in illegal activity should be punished. I think the answer is making prison a lot less fun than it already isn't.
First strike; rehabilitation oriented prison- nothing too severe. A chance to get your record expunged if you stay out of trouble. We would want to encourage people to obey the law and not view a single mistake as 'the end of their life'. The current way we punish (a felony = XXXX forever) only encourages hopelessness and otherwise good people to continue to do wrong.
Second and subsequent strikes; HARD labor, abject misery from sun up to sun down for the entire long sentence. If prison is painful there will be much more impetus to stay on the good side of the law once you got out.
Yeesh, I never meant to cause any thread creep with my comment. I wasn't endorsing the legalization of drugs, in fact I don't believe that's the answer. Without debating illegal drugs individually, let's just say that what's illegal is illegal, and engaging in illegal activity should be punished. I think the answer is making prison a lot less fun than it already isn't.
First strike; rehabilitation oriented prison- nothing too severe. A chance to get your record expunged if you stay out of trouble. We would want to encourage people to obey the law and not view a single mistake as 'the end of their life'. The current way we punish (a felony = XXXX forever) only encourages hopelessness and otherwise good people to continue to do wrong.
Second and subsequent strikes; HARD labor, abject misery from sun up to sun down for the entire long sentence. If prison is painful there will be much more impetus to stay on the good side of the law once you got out.
Mainsail
Regular Member
imported post
DEROS72 wrote:
DEROS72 wrote:
I'm glad this happened to you, as you obviously have the maturity necessary.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
imported post
Mainsail wrote:
As long as the law remains the moral aggressor, people will feel righteous in their defiance of it, no matter how strict the sentences.
America already has among the toughest prisons, and highest incarceration rates in the first world. What makes you think more of the same will somehow magically work where it hasn't thus far?
Prison is already bad enough that, if there were a guarantee of being caught, few people would sell drugs, I suspect. The problem is that, absent genuine aggression, most crimes represent a low individual risk of being caught. While it is true that crimes repeated on a daily basis are more likely to result in an arrest, I find it a highly questionable assumption that simply increasing criminal penalties will result in reduced criminal behavior. There's too much money to be had on each and every sale. People won't give it up. They'll always try selling just that one small amount, and get greedy, and start selling more and more. In fact, they'll keep wanting more and more, and they'll keep eventually getting busted, and they'll keep returning to easy money once they're out of prison.
This is what we see today. Why is more of the same likely to change anything?
Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.
Mainsail wrote:
This won't work as long as the law remains arbitrary and capricious.
As long as the law remains the moral aggressor, people will feel righteous in their defiance of it, no matter how strict the sentences.
America already has among the toughest prisons, and highest incarceration rates in the first world. What makes you think more of the same will somehow magically work where it hasn't thus far?
Prison is already bad enough that, if there were a guarantee of being caught, few people would sell drugs, I suspect. The problem is that, absent genuine aggression, most crimes represent a low individual risk of being caught. While it is true that crimes repeated on a daily basis are more likely to result in an arrest, I find it a highly questionable assumption that simply increasing criminal penalties will result in reduced criminal behavior. There's too much money to be had on each and every sale. People won't give it up. They'll always try selling just that one small amount, and get greedy, and start selling more and more. In fact, they'll keep wanting more and more, and they'll keep eventually getting busted, and they'll keep returning to easy money once they're out of prison.
This is what we see today. Why is more of the same likely to change anything?
Insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.
Tawnos
Regular Member
imported post
Mainsail wrote:
Mainsail wrote:
Rosa Parks should have just gone to the back of the bus. She deserved to be punished for civil disobedience of an unjust law. :quirky
Mainsail
Regular Member
imported post
That’s why I proposed something that wasn’t more of the same. I think you missed something in my reply. Toughest in the free world? Who cares? It’s not a contest and setting up a legal system based on such a metric is self defeating. Right now inmates have free time to use as they please; I got less than that in basic training. Prison, especially for a repeat offender, should be so horrific that it gives one pause, a long pause at that, before one repeats the behavior.
Let the big kids talk for now, ok? Judging from that response it might be better if you listen instead.
That’s why I proposed something that wasn’t more of the same. I think you missed something in my reply. Toughest in the free world? Who cares? It’s not a contest and setting up a legal system based on such a metric is self defeating. Right now inmates have free time to use as they please; I got less than that in basic training. Prison, especially for a repeat offender, should be so horrific that it gives one pause, a long pause at that, before one repeats the behavior.
Let the big kids talk for now, ok? Judging from that response it might be better if you listen instead.
swatspyder
Regular Member
imported post
Mainsail wrote:
Mainsail wrote:
Tawnos was being sarcastic there. Saying that doing things that are illegal can (sometimes) have an affect on the laws in this country.