Showing CHL if OC in Portland

[We-the-People]

Thanks Gray. I think it's the REALITY CHECK part that so many don't seem to get. What the law says vs how it's going to happen in the real world.

Just like the Jeff Maxwell situation with the Oregon University system. That happened in what, 2009? We just got the decision from the appeals court last month...and that was with Oregon Firearms Federation pushing their own suit on the law, not for Maxwell, because of how the "system" operates. That's a long damn time from Maxwell being booted out of school to a proper legal decision...and a lot of money.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Thanks Gray. I think it's the REALITY CHECK part that so many don't seem to get. What the law says vs how it's going to happen in the real world.

Just like the Jeff Maxwell situation with the Oregon University system. That happened in what, 2009? We just got the decision from the appeals court last month...and that was with Oregon Firearms Federation pushing their own suit on the law, not for Maxwell, because of how the "system" operates. That's a long damn time from Maxwell being booted out of school to a proper legal decision...and a lot of money.

Indeed it is.

Litigants have to deal with the realities of how courts will rule, deal with things in a narrowly tailored fashion. I prefer Vermont/Arizona-style carry, and I support OFF's efforts to annihilate the concealed carry ban, the preemption exemption language, as well as the public building law off the books via the political solutions of the Legislature. I predict that any effort to do this would have to wait until after Governor Kitzhaber's first term is up (2015).

The 4th amendment has already been significantly weakened to the point of near nothing, and efforts to use the 4th amendment as a vehicle for greater 2A rights will weaken both at the same time. I would rather work on getting all of these laws dealt with politically with judicial points of pressure on the current CHL system (fees, willies clause, non-citizen issues, non-contiguous states) being used as an Archimedes lever on getting things legislatively repealed. Think about it this way: If you both open carry and concealed carry without a license, there's no public building ban, and there's no more local ordinances exemption, what can the cops arrest you for? If they did, they wouldn't have immunity to shield their actions.

Think smarter, not harder.

 

[CharonPDX]

Summary:

Do you "have" to show your CHL? No. You don't HAVE to do anything. Just ask a tax protester.

But if you do refuse, expect to be hauled off to be booked for resisting an officer, or some other random "you disrespected an officer" type charge. (Whether it is justified or not.) Expect to lose your CHL while the proceedings are pending. Expect that you will have to spend time and money fighting the charge. Expect that the case will go to the Oregon Supreme Court. Expect that you will likely forfeit your concealed carry privileges until the case is settled.

If you are not willing to be the "test case", then show your CHL. I, for one, am not willing to be a test case.

 

[badkarma]

Summary:

Do you "have" to show your CHL? No. You don't HAVE to do anything. Just ask a tax protester.

But if you do refuse, expect to be hauled off to be booked for resisting an officer, or some other random "you disrespected an officer" type charge. (Whether it is justified or not.) Expect to lose your CHL while the proceedings are pending. Expect that you will have to spend time and money fighting the charge. Expect that the case will go to the Oregon Supreme Court. Expect that you will likely forfeit your concealed carry privileges until the case is settled.

If you are not willing to be the "test case", then show your CHL. I, for one, am not willing to be a test case.

Most cops call it "Stupid Tax" if they ask you to do something that to them is resonable(Can I see your licence,CPL, what is your name?) and you refuse. They will find something else very minor but with in the law that most cops would never use. But since you wanted to try their authority they will apply a stupid tax to your ass and then say "Don't you wish you would have just given me your license/CPL/name in the first place? Now I got all of it and your going away with a fine for being stupid."
You can argue what is legal and what is right all day long. The end result depends on the situation and cop.

 

[We-the-People]

Most cops call it "Stupid Tax" if they ask you to do something that to them is resonable(Can I see your licence,CPL, what is your name?) and you refuse. They will find something else very minor but with in the law that most cops would never use. But since you wanted to try their authority they will apply a stupid tax to your ass and then say "Don't you wish you would have just given me your license/CPL/name in the first place? Now I got all of it and your going away with a fine for being stupid."
You can argue what is legal and what is right all day long. The end result depends on the situation and cop.

And this is why EVERYONE (not just open carriers) should be in the habit of carrying at least an audio recording device at all times. Absent RAS for an initial detention (unless you give up your rights voluntarilly), any other ******** that is drummed up will be "fruit of the poisonous tree" and SHOULD (never think that it's automatic) be easilly supressed by the defense.

The attitude/tactic you described is called "contempt of cop" and is the product of too damn many sheeple blindly obeying, often with the naieve belief "If you don't have anything to hide, why not"?

Is it inconvienient? You bet cha. Can the stakes get high? You bet cha. If you don't have an audio recording will the cop lie? Unfortunately the answer to that is also you bet cha. Trust me, the first time I witnessed a police officer intentionally and blatantly lying on the witness stand (about what happened when he ticketed me) my entire world view began to disentegrate!

 

[badkarma]

And this is why EVERYONE (not just open carriers) should be in the habit of carrying at least an audio recording device at all times. Absent RAS for an initial detention (unless you give up your rights voluntarilly), any other ******** that is drummed up will be "fruit of the poisonous tree" and SHOULD (never think that it's automatic) be easilly supressed by the defense.

The attitude/tactic you described is called "contempt of cop" and is the product of too damn many sheeple blindly obeying, often with the naieve belief "If you don't have anything to hide, why not"?

Is it inconvienient? You bet cha. Can the stakes get high? You bet cha. If you don't have an audio recording will the cop lie? Unfortunately the answer to that is also you bet cha. Trust me, the first time I witnessed a police officer intentionally and blatantly lying on the witness stand (about what happened when he ticketed me) my entire world view began to disentegrate!

I agree. And due to this forum i purchased one of the instant on audio and video recorders. Nothing high tech, just $20 from Amazon.

best said by one of our Washington members "I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen." SVG

 

[Allfat]

I agree. And due to this forum i purchased one of the instant on audio and video recorders. Nothing high tech, just $20 from Amazon.

best said by one of our Washington members "I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen." SVG

Do you mind linking the audio video recorder you purchased? I am interested and can't find anything that cheap anywhere. Thanks.

 

[badkarma]

Do you mind linking the audio video recorder you purchased? I am interested and can't find anything that cheap anywhere. Thanks.

Amazon search: Mini Stick DVR Camera - Chewing Gum Shape . $20.25 and I got a 4G minisd card also. Nothin fancy but probably worth more than it's weight in gold if it protects you from being prosecuted.