Silly liberals

[Tomas]

Guess I must be the eighth dwarf, Sleezy... Someone let me know when the posturing is over, and this gets back on topic.

 

[G20-IWB24/7]

There seems to be a real divide between people that are OK with having a voluntary (or not so much) encounter with LE, and those who would rather not be subjected to such intrusions. Is this not a worthy topic on our forum?

 

[tombrewster421]

Enough

Guess I must be the eighth dwarf, Sleezy... Someone let me know when the posturing is over, and this gets back on topic.

No kidding! The last thing I want to read on my thread is bickering.
Yeah, sure I could have done things differently but since this was my first encounter it's kind of hard to remember everything I've ever read here and to know EXACTLY what I should do. Since I've been through it now I'm sure I'll do better next time. Let's try and keep things constructive here and DROP whatever beef you have.

 

[tombrewster421]

There seems to be a real divide between people that are OK with having a voluntary (or not so much) encounter with LE, and those who would rather not be subjected to such intrusions. Is this not a worthy topic on our forum?

If I had not had this VOLUNTARY interaction with the police would anyone have learned anything today? Now the business owner knows that OC is legal. The officer knows that a CPL doesn't REQUIRE you to conceal your weapon. And I know that this officer knows that the real problem here is the PUBLIC and the whole thing was a waste of his time and taxpayer money. Our OC'ing to me is more about retraining the PUBLIC than the LE. Once the PUBLIC is trained properly there will be no problem.
Make it normal.

 

[amzbrady]

I havta throw in my 2 cents.
When I first joined this forum I caught the tail end of the guys with nads that were standing up and fighting for open carry rights and refusing to "go out and talk with leo", What I saw then was threads saying a leo made contact and wanted to talk where the Open Carrier replied as they should "Am I being arrested or detained?", "No, thank you have a nice day" and thats where their contact always ended with them saying the Leo left with a dump look on their face.
Now All I am seeing is alot of newbies tearing apart what some have been working so hard at while they are basically telling the LEO that sure, we like to bend over and have our day interupted so you can make a mockery of us by cuffing us in public and running my firearms numbers. Sure here, let me show you my ID in a no show state, Here I'm Open carry, but I'd love to show you my CPL. Some even go as far as to ask businesses if it's ok to carry in their establishment. Duh. If you give someone a chance to think about it and say no they probably will. If they did not want you carrying in their business prior to a you asking, then you shouldnt have to ask, just look at the door where it will be posted. (although that sign only tells me I need to go in concealed and the gun with the red slash through it only means that they are currantly out of stock on guns and are not selling any)
Next Seatac BBQ, you guys should hand out a gump award for some of these guys. Really what I cant fully understand, is all the new guys who are posting leo contacts. I have yet to have a leo contact me. Only time a cop ever asked me about my weapon was while I was on scene for an impound and it was raining, I had my jacket on, and the officer asked me why I wasnt carrying. I told him I was, it was just covered. Are the cops maybe stereotyping by any chance? I dress in button up shirts, and clean jeans. ( coarse now that I have said I have, had no contacts, I'll probably have one tomorrow). I have my recorder in case I do. I only hope it works when I need it to, I have the pen one.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

 

[amzbrady]

lol

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I havta throw in my 2 cents.
When I first joined this forum I caught the tail end of the guys with nads that were standing up and fighting for open carry rights and refusing to "go out and talk with leo", What I saw then was threads saying a leo made contact and wanted to talk where the Open Carrier replied as they should "Am I being arrested or detained?", "No, thank you have a nice day" and thats where their contact always ended with them saying the Leo left with a dump look on their face.
Now All I am seeing is alot of newbies tearing apart what some have been working so hard at while they are basically telling the LEO that sure, we like to bend over and have our day interupted so you can make a mockery of us by cuffing us in public and running my firearms numbers. Sure here, let me show you my ID in a no show state, Here I'm Open carry, but I'd love to show you my CPL. Some even go as far as to ask businesses if it's ok to carry in their establishment. Duh. If you give someone a chance to think about it and say no they probably will. If they did not want you carrying in their business prior to a you asking, then you shouldnt have to ask, just look at the door where it will be posted. (although that sign only tells me I need to go in concealed and the gun with the red slash through it only means that they are currantly out of stock on guns and are not selling any)
Next Seatac BBQ, you guys should hand out a gump award for some of these guys. Really what I cant fully understand, is all the new guys who are posting leo contacts. I have yet to have a leo contact me. Only time a cop ever asked me about my weapon was while I was on scene for an impound and it was raining, I had my jacket on, and the officer asked me why I wasnt carrying. I told him I was, it was just covered. Are the cops maybe stereotyping by any chance? I dress in button up shirts, and clean jeans. ( coarse now that I have said I have, had no contacts, I'll probably have one tomorr//ow). I have my recorder in case I do. I only hope it works when I need it to, I have the pen one.

Thank you Amzbrady it's is similar to what I was going to say. Everytime someone "cooperates" with the LEO on these encounters, it becomes like Citizen says, consensual. It also enables and encourages LEO to continue this type of behavior. And makes them feel justified in doing so.

I am one of the dwarves for sure and had to laugh at the quote I read where he states " better opinion" (of course referring to his own). Is there a hysterically laughing icon....?

 

[ARADCOM]

I have met GoGo and disagree with Bigdave. Anyone else?

I haven't met either one, but I do know I only noticed posts from BigDave in the last week or so and quite frankly I was irritated after about the third one I read. I don't think he and I would agree on much and there's just something... abrasive?, egotistical?... that I didn't care for.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

gogodawgs did I say your name, no you took it upon yourself to place yourself in that position.

No you didn't name names, instead you made a comment that casts aspersions on some unknown number of forum members.

And then you feign innocence.

This thread is full of win.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I have met GoGo and disagree with Bigdave. Anyone else?

Well......no just kidding. Nick is a great guy and one of most people on here I would consider friends. Orphan are you a dwarf too? LOL.....what are you a good foot taller than me?

 

[69Charger]

Rant coming. Jmho

This only applies to the few.
One thing I have learned, while I have been on this forum, is that there are sure a lot of angry preachers on here. My way or the highway.
Them against us attitude. Confrontation is mandatory.
All members are required to teach the law enforcement officers when engaging such persons.
Pumping up ones chest while downgrading some one for not doing what is required is SOP.
I came here to learn how others approach open carry, and have found a hostile environment,when people don't conform to what is expected.
A lot of good info going on but a lot of downgrading of people for there actions also. Learning the laws, here, is great. Thank you for that.
People claim that people who don't conform are ruining all that has been done by the open carry gods. ???
I will continue to open carry, IWB carry, and be non confrontational if I ever have contact with LOEs as I have in the past. They don't only learn by in your face encounters. But thats what is preached.
Can things be better in the community? OF COURSE. On this forum? Rant (venting) over.
Feel free to chew me a new one.(tho I dont feel I deserve it) I can take it.
Dave

 

[acmariner99]

I will continue to open carry, IWB carry, and be non confrontational if I ever have contact with LOEs as I have in the past. They don't only learn by in your face encounters.
Dave

+1

Being confrontational solves nothing and is not the message we want to convey is it? It only gives ammo for the antis who think we are irrational and irresponsible to begin with. You can inform people about the law, and complain through proper channels if you honestly believe your rights are being violated without getting tied in a knot. I don't carry a gun to fight, I carry a gun because I hate fighting.

 

[G20-IWB24/7]

And the frustration that I have with some of the new folks, is that there is an attitude of approaching situations that makes us revert back to 3 or 4 years ago, where there were A DOZEN or so active OCers in the Puget Sound area. Gray was contacting every LEO agency under the sun to get training bulletins written, Mainsail was being accosted by the TPD whenever the chance permitted, etc... it was truly "uncharted territory."

Now plenty of the new people wants to ask permission to exercise the rights that many on this board have been fighting to "normalize" in the eyes of the public AND LEOs for YEARS. This isn't about "join date" or "post count." This is about recognizing that this movement has started long before 6 or 8 months ago, and there is no reason to surrender the progress that has been made the last 4 years.

 

[skiingislife725]

I think there is a happy medium here. That is, to convey to the officer that you do not consent to being disarmed/going out to the parking lot to be gawked at. If they detain you, then they do and then you can k*ss a** if you so choose. But don't just go, "How would you like it officer?" without evening saying that you're not in the mood.

Best advice I've heard: Let them know that you do not consent, BUT do not physically resist.

 

[69Charger]

From what I have seen. It has only helped with getting the laws noticed and complied too, and the normalization of hand guns in society,. Without the in your face attitude.
I still think you can get a bigger hive by offering honey, than you can by offering mustard.
Dave

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Well......no just kidding. Nick is a great guy and one of most people on here I would consider friends. Orphan are you a dwarf too? LOL.....what are you a good foot taller than me?

I would also consider Nick a friend and all around smart great guy. I must be a Dwarf,LOL. Do you think he was talking stature or mental. Not to worry I got the high stuff covered if you guys got the low stuff covered.

 

[amlevin]

Hmm, next time I go shooting I'm going to bring a sandwich to practice shooting and eating at the same time.

Be sure everyone around you is shooting lead-free ammo. Wouln't want to ingest all that lead that can float around in the air of a shooting range.

As for eating in "liberal type" restaurants, I try to avoid them. They don't serve enough greasy fried food for my taste. I can make a sandwich at home. When I go out to eat I want something that once walked on four legs in a field that was just warmed over a flame.

 

[SpyderTattoo]

I don't remember anyone here saying anything about being confrontational with police. I'm not confrontational when I get stopped, but I don't just bend over and take it either. "Am I being detained? No? Have a nice day officer."

Is there not enough information and examples of real-life stops here on the forum that a guy getting stopped for the first time wouldn't know how to handle himself? "I DO NOT consent to this illegal search/seizure" "What RAS do you have to detain me?" Am I being detained?" "Am I free to go?"

The information is there. Maybe some of you should really spend some time reading the old posts from those of us who have come up against this same situations and try to learn from them. It really does feel like "one step forward, two steps back" when some of us are peacably standing up for our 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendment rights and some of you don't even offer any resistance whatsoever. Stand up for yourselves.

The cops are the good guys, but they don't all know all the laws correctly. They won't learn them from you making it "normal" and easy for them to violate your rights.

 

[DEROS72]

When I was approached a while back by Kent Police In a Hair cut place they asked me to go outside so we could talk.I simply said no.!!! I was inside around witnesses that knew me.What is with everyone just bending over lately.When the kent Officer siad I had to cover it up I said no ,I don't.I'm here getting a haircut(which I was).They again asked me to step outside ,I again said No.HE asked why not,I replied there is no crime here and Open Carry is legal in the state of Wa.and I don't have to.About that time the gal that always cuts my hair came out and said Oh thats Jim he's here all the time.Finally I saw that the younger officer was really getting pissed but I was not going outside.So they left and as they went to thier car Bookman walked up to them and gave them an invite to our Willow Lake meet.(last years) . Just say NO.!

I rode the train downtown last spring .As I got off at King street I was approcahed by One security and one SPD.The security guard said they had a complaint I was acting theatening on the train .I looked at the 2 of them and said I haven't spoken to anyone since I got on in Seatac.Have a nice day fellows and walked away.They were just standing there looking a little dumbfounded.

I was approached in the Payless shoes in the Seatac mall by federalwway cops.One tried to get on my side and one in front.One said nice day for shopping.I pushed passed the the one in front saying yes it is and walked away out of the store.Did some shopping elswhere in the mall and never saw the 2 again.
Why is you all say its a great encounter when you get disarmed etc.They really have no right speaking to you.