so what are the three branches of our government ?

[Kirbinator]

the 3 branches of government?: Injustice, Ignorance, and Incompetence.

The one that watches after the others is Insolence.

 

[VW_Factor]

Both concussion grenades, and stun grenades (which I believe you were intending to refer to), are capable of causing injury, although it would require extreme proximity to the blast. Not to mention that flashbangs occasionally set houses on fire, which can be quite lethal.

And both of them are pretty much guaranteed to cause hearing damage (without protection), which is a underrated form of injury (I know it's cool for many who have destroyed their hearing, but I will not take kindly to any person who assaults and causes permanent damage to one of the five senses in the only body I have).

I mention this because of an incident where a cop threw a flashbang under some bleachers occupied by a bunch of kids, if I recall as some sort of demo of "how cool we are".

Generally, the incident drew the cop apologists out of the woodwork, most of whom argued that hearing loss doesn't count as an injury, and anybody who didn't think it was totally awesome to have a cop damage their hearing by setting off a flashbang, deserves hearing loss anyway for not appreciating how awesome it is for cops to flashbang kids, because, hey, flashbangs are "non-lethal".

I know it's off-topic, but I just felt like saying: it isn't cool to flashbang innocent people. I value my hearing much more than most folks seem to, and I'd ask for a little respect for that. I seek to reject assertions that flashbangs are an appropriate law enforcement tool for scenarios which have not yet developed as calling for escalated force.

From the wiki.

A "stun" grenade IS a flashbang.

The concussion grenade is an anti-personnel device that is designed to damage its target with explosive power alone.

The term concussion is often erroneously applied to stun grenades. This is not descriptive of the effects caused by the grenade. The term concussion is used because the grenade relies on its explosive power to create casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade

Carry on with that.

 

[marshaul]

From the wiki.

A "stun" grenade IS a flashbang.

The concussion grenade is an anti-personnel device that is designed to damage its target with explosive power alone.

The term concussion is often erroneously applied to stun grenades. This is not descriptive of the effects caused by the grenade. The term concussion is used because the grenade relies on its explosive power to create casualties.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade

Carry on with that.

Thanks for the info, but I hope you weren't implying that it somehow contradicts anything I wrote (or even thought at the time).

Edit in response to post below: Cool, the additional info is always good. No doubt the terminology can be confusing, but I think you've cleared it up for any who might have had questions.

 

[VW_Factor]

Thanks for the info, but I hope you weren't implying that it somehow contradicts anything I wrote (or even thought at the time).

No sir. Not implying anything. Just more complete information to go over.

 

[END_THE_FED]

Sorry about that. I should have removed the bits which specify your user as the source of that quote. I know that Schumer was the source of that quote.

I was merely using your post as a spring board for elaboration on the extreme annoyance I experience when certain people claim stun grenades can't cause injury.

No problem, I knew it wasn't intentional. I just mentioned it for those who may have read your post but hadn't read mine.

 

[Gunslinger]

Concussion grenades are often lethal. They have been used in WWII, Korea and 'Nam to permanently injure personnel without causing explosive damage to the building. The are meant to deafen--permantly, and/or cause a concussion that could lead to death. The Marines used them on Iwo to take out the Japs inside ammo dumps without setting off the ammo. If you're too close to them, you can die. Further away ain't much fun either. Flash/bangs are much less concussive, but the fbi used them to kill innocent women and children at Waco, so their potential incindiary application can kill very effectively. Of course, the gutless, pos cowards at Waco didn't have to go hand to hand with women and babies, so that was ok. Although they prefer to shoot innocent women holding babies in the back, things worked out ok for them as they burned 87 alive. (Hanssen--another heroic fbi piece of filth, wanted to be there, but he had a date with the KGB.)

 

[since9]

Concussion grenades are often lethal. They have been used in WWII, Korea and 'Nam to permanently injure personnel without causing explosive damage to the building. The are meant to deafen--permantly, and/or cause a concussion that could lead to death. The Marines used them on Iwo to take out the Japs inside ammo dumps without setting off the ammo. If you're too close to them, you can die. Further away ain't much fun either. Flash/bangs are much less concussive, but the fbi used them to kill innocent women and children at Waco, so their potential incindiary application can kill very effectively. Of course, the gutless, pos cowards at Waco didn't have to go hand to hand with women and babies, so that was ok. Although they prefer to shoot innocent women holding babies in the back, things worked out ok for them as they burned 87 alive. (Hanssen--another heroic fbi piece of filth, wanted to be there, but he had a date with the KGB.)

Despite 20 years in the military, my one and only experience with a concussion grenade happened last summer, '09, after I'd exited the military. The apartment unit one floor below, and across the breezeway was assaulted by Colorado Springs SWAT. I and my son were asleep at the time, but what I do recall are two solid thumps (some door-devastating device) followed by a very much larger, bed-shaking... "cujde." "pgghdgg..."

Whatever. It literally whumped our floor, and both my son and I awake in the process.

I experienced something similar in Iraq when a mortor round detonated in the tent next to us. Thankfully, we were in overflow, and no one was residing there, so aside from flooring and bunks thrown about the place, no big deal.

Still, that was a morter round. I don't know the caliber. I just know it went off about 50' from my bunk, woke us all up, put a couple of holes through our roof, and decimated the tent next to us. Thank God we had sandbagged walls. If we hadn't, the shrapnel might have been deadly.

The flash-bang they used by the CSPD was about 53 feet away (trig. 53.15 ft away, if you want to go into detail), and was as concussive as the mortor round used against us in Iraq.

As a weapons officer in the USAF (not LEO; the other side of the house involving things between bombs ranging between a couple hundred pounds and megatons of TNT), I am very familiar with the effects of various concussive blast wave pressure variances.

About all I can say, however, is that they're not very forgiving. Given the fact that there are other options available, I do not believe flash-bangs should be used. It's 90% bravado, and 10% competance. Just hit 'em with a sleep gas while they're asleep, and they wake up in jail. DUH! (rolls eyes in exasperation).

By the way, I saw the results of the single concussive grenade they threw into the apartment. It blew a 4" hole out of the carpet. Before you say, "4 inches? that's nothing!" you must first realize modern carpet is many times stronger and more resilient than human tissue. If the resident had been answering the door knocks when they threw that in there, he would have stood a very good chance of loosing his foot.