Someone Convicted Of A Felony Or Violent Crime

[goodsamaritan742]

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the definition says nothing about a brother...it says spouse or former spouse boy friend girl friend or child...even this: by a
person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited
with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or
by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent,
or guardian of the victim[.]"

spouse parent or gaurdian or similarly situated(wow!!! a broad term)

my relationship to my brother is none of these...i think its a known fact that all brothers fight as kids and like most brothers who grow up and become adults there is no intention to go back 13 years later to take revenge or get even or what ever have you...further more i have more than paid my debt to society for my measly 4 degree assault/threat as part of normal sibling rivalry/jealous

i also feel the only reason this mdvc thing came around was peole where tired of seeing instances in the news of husbands taking a legally purchased gun and killing wife and or kids and self and also common was the fact that in alot of cases the husband had previous dv convictions but because they are typically misdemeanors and not felonies the person was able to legally purchase a gun to later use against wife kids etc...this was never meant to to punish a brother 13 years later for sibling rivalry that became a misdemeanor crime...

"In this situation, the MCDV Definition mandates that a predicate
offense be a misdemeanor and have as an element the use of force
committed by a person in a domestic relationship with the victim. See
18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(33)(A). More specifically, the MCDV Definition
provides:
(33)(A) Except as provided in subparagraph (C), the term
"misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" means an
offense that —
(i) is a misdemeanor under Federal or State law;
and
(ii) has, as an element, the use or attempted use of
physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly
weapon, committed by a current or former spouse,
parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with
whom the victim shares a child in common, by a
person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited
with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or
by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent,
or guardian of the victim[.]"

 

[goodsamaritan742]

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section 32 even further proves my point that this law was meant to protect the spouse and child plus what is the meaning of having a juvenile record that you can never be forgiven for and dont we seperate juveniles from adults by agreeing that crimes as a juvenile are done during a time when so much is going on emotionally and pyhsically and still learning to make right choices....this country has a long history of choosing when and how to view teens as adults and when not to....teens are still not adults they are kids...that is why we have a juvenile system for teens and an adult system for adults but that all got blured when clinton was in office and he wanted to crack down on juvenile crime...hence the "tried as an adult"(i have heard of cases of 12 year olds being tried as adults and then that recent case of the 7 year old kid being tried as an adult for killing dad and dads friend) and the inability to automatically seal records when you turn 18...also around that time is when this mdvc thing came into play and some how they feel its right to include juvenile offenses in this!!!! i hate people playing politics but it infuriates me when the politiking happens with my 2nd amendment rights..

(32) The term “intimate partner” means, with respect to a person, the spouse of the person, a former spouse of the person, an individual who is a parent of a child of the person, and an individual who cohabitates or has cohabited with the person. [sup][2][/sup] the term “misdemeanor crime of domestic violence” means an offense that— [sup][3][/sup] law; and (ii) has, as an element, the use or attempted use of physical force, or the threatened use of a deadly weapon, committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.

 

[Pamiam]

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CharlesC wrote:

Pamiam wrote:

Should someone previously convicted of a felony or violent crime be able to carry?

My answer may cause you to fall out of your chair, but I say "yes".

I see it this way:

If they're so dangerous to society that they shouldn't be permitted to carry, why are they out of jail?

Which of the following will be stopped by this law: Someone who was convicted, served their time and learned a lesson, or someone who was convicted, served their time and still don't give a flip about laws?

You have basically said what I think. The RIGHT to keep and bear arms is an absolute right that is never lost. Just as a “dangerous” felon has the right to free speech or religion after his time has been served (and even during his incarceration), his right to keep and bear arms should not be lost. Once someone has served their time, it is done and over with. He shouldn’t be second-class citizen forever.



So just as a felon has all other rights guaranteed to him by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, so too should he enjoy his Second Amendment Right to keep and bear arms.



If we were ever attacked by an enemy and had to defend our family and friends, would we turn away someone because they had a criminal record? No, we hand him a gun and let him get to it! For those who haven’t figured it out, that is a militia. More than a few “criminals” were in the Continental Army and Navy.



The ONLY time a criminal should loose their second amendment rights is when they AGREE to do so in order for parole or other early release. In either case, the agreement should only be for as long as the original sentence. The same for being out on bail. The accused as the right to a speedy trial and if he waives that right it is by his choice and could just as easily spend the time in jail. I feel it is an acceptable reason to temporarily give up your second amendment rights. Similar to a “gag” order before a trial.



-CharlesC

Absolutely! Well said!

 

[wrightme]

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http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1529:

 

[Pamiam]

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wrightme wrote:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1529:

Cool! Another one!

These come up all the time. They get nowhere and help no one.

Have you actually read this thread?

Your link is about, and I quote, "Any individual convicted of an [sic] nonviolent offense". How does that even begin to remotely relate here?

It is, however, an opportunity for you to educate yourself. I encourage you to follow this piece of legislation. It won't even get nonviolent offenders anywhere. Hide and watch.

 

[wrightme]

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Pamiam wrote:

wrightme wrote:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1529:

Cool! Another one!

These come up all the time. They get nowhere and help no one.

Have you actually read this thread?

Your link is about, and I quote, "Any individual convicted of an [sic] nonviolent offense". How does that even begin to remotely relate here?

It is, however, an opportunity for you to educate yourself. I encourage you to follow this piece of legislation. It won't even get nonviolent offenders anywhere. Hide and watch.

Nibble back. Go after this one. Get those you wish to help to go after this one. Keep fighting for the Rights. It will not get restored in one chunk, no matter how much you rant, whine, and jump up and down and make a spectacle of yourself.

Above all, educate yourself on how the legislative process actually works, as opposed to the Pollyanna world where it will be reversed in one big omnibus bill that restores everyone's rights all at once.

 

[Pamiam]

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wrightme wrote:

Pamiam wrote:

wrightme wrote:

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1529:

Cool! Another one!

These come up all the time. They get nowhere and help no one.

Have you actually read this thread?

Your link is about, and I quote, "Any individual convicted of an [sic] nonviolent offense". How does that even begin to remotely relate here?

It is, however, an opportunity for you to educate yourself. I encourage you to follow this piece of legislation. It won't even get nonviolent offenders anywhere. Hide and watch.

Nibble back. Go after this one. Get those you wish to help to go after this one. Keep fighting for the Rights. It will not get restored in one chunk, no matter how much you rant, whine, and jump up and down and make a spectacle of yourself.

Above all, educate yourself on how the legislative process actually works, as opposed to the Pollyanna world where it will be reversed in one big omnibus bill that restores everyone's rights all at once.

You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions there. Like I said, this is a great educational opportunity for you.

Of course all of that has been done, by more people than just me and by more generations than just ours. Move forward with THAT assumption and see where it leads you.

And do watch that piece of legislature. Don't think this is the first time that's been proposed. Moreover, ask yourself why it's necessary.

 

[Pamiam]

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SFCRetired wrote:

I know of an individual who committed several felonies when he was younger. He served his time and came out of prison a much more mature, responsible person. Neither did he ever transgress the law again.

Now this individual did not commit any violent crimes, just crimes against property. On that basis and the basis that he turned his life around, I would think that the system should restore all of his rights.

It didn't and this husband and father was denied the means to protect his family. Thankfully, that did not lead to any incidents.

Yes, I do know all of that to be true. He's my half-brother.

Thank you. There are thousands of stories like this, from non-violent misdemeanors to violent felons who've truly turned their lives around.

These people have all paid their debts are are now free citizens. ALL free citizens are entitled to ALL Constitutional rights.

Unfortunately, some are denied by political agenda. This should be corrected.

As writeme pointed out, legislation comes up from time to time. Note that his cite is about "nonviolent offenders". If someone who stole a car when they were 17 and are still stripped of their rights at 50 needs a piece of legislation to have their rights restored, then there's a problem way beyond supporting that particular piece of legislation (not that it's the first, and not that it'll make it anywhere).

These exercises in hoop jumping are inherently wrong.

What do you see as a viable solution?

 

[Pagan]

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Well as a 2 time convicted felon and an ex-con, and having served 10 years on probation, 5 of which was supervised with random unannounced home invasion err.. I mean inspections once released from prison you are not free by any means.

Now that being said, after 14 years of good behavior, paying my debt to society and and not acting like an ass earned me the grand privilage of Executive Clemency in June of 2008, then after proving to a local circuit court judge thatI had become a good and productive member of society I had my firearm rights reinstated in December of 2008, executive clemency only reinstates all the others, not 2A rights, only a judge can do that.

ButI can tell you what, ifI had just been GIVEN my rights back without having to EARN them back I would have just f*cked it up when I was released, took me a while to own up to my mistakes and DECIDE on my OWN to be a citizen and not a criminal.

Something given has little to no value, period. BTW no sex crimes or violent convictions under my belt, just typical I refuse to grow up I'm a Toy's R US Kid, BS on my behalf.

 

[NightOwl]

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Perhaps you and I have different definitions of released. Do you mean at the time that your 10 years on probation? Your time wasn't up until that was done...and honestly, if you made it through 10 years of that without incident, then I can't help but think that you made that decision long before you would have had your gun rights restored.

 

[Pagan]

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No actuallyafter the 5 years of supervised probation it got tough because then it was all on me, honestly during the 5 years of supervised I just got very good at not getting caught, not becauseI hated society, it was just on principle that I would not bow down to whatI percieved at the time as an injustice, but once I was on my own that is when I started to make real progress, making the right decisions because I thought it better overall, not breaking the law simply because I thought it was for the greater good and all that, sounds mushy I know, but whenI realized that my fellow citizens were not to blame for the corrupt government, and were just as much victims as myself of corruption and hypocracy and well quite frankly, treason against our Constitution of these United States, thatI began to see the values and resposibilities bestowed upon us as citizens and Americans in general. Feel free to puke now at my patriotic ramblings.:uhoh:

 

[wrightme]

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Pagan, I commend you. You have accomplished what many feel is not possible after getting the "felon" label.

 

[goodsamaritan742]

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pagan-can you describe the court process you went through...paper work you had to file,did you hire an attorney or do it your self?

You can go back ad read all posts from goodsamaritan742 to see my story but to give you the quick version. im a 26 year old undergraduate student, a father of two and i have a clean adult criminal record. im prevented from owning a gun because of a 4th degree domestic violence conviction from when i was 13 that qualified under the states version of misdemeanor domestic violence charge which bars a person from possesing a firearm....its the only misdemeanor charge as far as i know that can take this right away. i even had my records sealed from my juvenile past.....two other key details one the feds version of the mdvc is not as strict and i qualify for ownership based off of that...but when i was denied the state was the one who made the desicion because the fbi's nics system doesnt handle washington states background checks for firearms purchases.

 

[Pagan]

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I sure will. I did a search for restoration of civil rights in Va. that took me to the page on the Va. state web site that had an application to download and print. I filled it out and sent it registered mail to the Secretary of the Commonwealth, about 30 days later I got a letter from the Secretary and from the Governor telling me that my civil liberties minus 2A had been restored, but told me what was needed for them to get restored. Clemency is different than a pardon, a pardon is rarely given except for those wrongfully convicted, clemency is like official forgiveness. All of this was done without a lawyer.

Now for filling the petition to restore 2A rights you HAVE to use a lawyer in Va. you can't even get the petition without one. So hire an attorney, tell him what you want to do, fill out the petition attach a copy of letter of clemency, and some personnal refferences I used a retired SWAT officer that also did drug interdiction for the coast guard and a 25 years local businees owner , both have known me for years and could attest to my good citizenship and maturity and patriotism.

Now here is where I stacked the deck in my favor. In Va. you can not even apply for clemency until 3 years after all your legal issues are over and if you get convicted of ANYTHING in those 3 years misdomeanors or ofcourse felonies you have to wait another 3 years from when all that is over. So what I did whenI was 3 years out from filing I join a civic group with our county, something that I could really get into, I joined the Gloucester clean community committee and was appointed a voting member by our board of supervisors for the county, basically cleaning up litter and educating the public about the threat garbage and waste poses to our and the enviroments health. I was giving back to my community, and I am still on that committee by the way, so do some civic service. Then when you file the petition to your local circuit court attach that information with your letters of reference.

Also one of the first things I did whenI recieved clemency was register to vote, and volunteered to be an officer of election for my county,I was chosen for the task andI swore an oath and did my job. So whenI filed the petition I had that also to put on there, stacking the deck, but I can assure you it is all agenuine sense of cvic responsibility, plus I have 3 kids that I homeschool, I also put that on my personall info.

So I pay my lawyer 700 dollars, file the petition, go to court and BAMmy 2A rights are restored.

Now if you were convicted on a federal felony charge, congress has suspended the funding for the program to reinstate your 2A rights, and you are basically screwed unless you can get a presidential pardon, and why some of the scum that get those, can get them is a testament to our failing leadership, but hey, who am I to judge.

 

[goodsamaritan742]

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unfortunately i live in the not so great state of washington which is one of the few that view the mdvc law alot harsher then the feds do....I cant own a gun becasue me and my brother got into a fight(i was 13) and i pulled a swiss army pocket knife and threatned him(never physically touched him and we are good friends now). i was charged with 4th degree assault(a mdvc offense in wa) but federal doesnt include convictions against siblings...the process isnt very easy here and its a lot more expensive...some where in the $1500-2500.00...especially since the lawyers have the extra work of unsealing my records first...here the process is expungement or vacation of conviction thats most used...especially since my charge my one charge is a misdemeanor!!!and i was a 13 year old juvenile....man that makes me so angry...since when in gods name are juveniles punished for life for making a dumb juvenile mistake??? Ill stop now....thank you pagan for offering the information....in my excitement i figured the information could help...but atleast you can attest to the fact that it can be done...at least in a conservitive state.....this is one of the reasons why i consider my self a yellow dog democrat...this coming from some one who started out a tree hugging greenie enviromentalist save the animals type...man i dont miss those times...

 

[Pagan]

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Perhaps you could make sure your other civil liberties are not hindered just move to another state. I had to petition a circuit court in my jurisdiction, not where I was convicted, I moved out of the city 11 years ago, and never looked back.

 

[goodsamaritan742]

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This is what is sad i shouldnt have to move to another state to realize what i feel should stilll be my constitutional right....cookie cutter legislation amoung all the states that is the big problem and it will never be solved...because every state is different in how it views laws. It just really frustrates me that people fall through the cracks when laws are made with out thought and to individual situations...as arrogant as it sounds that idea of adding misdemeanor 4th degree assault (mdvc) as a deniable offense was never meant to stop some one like me but its one size fits all. and people like me get screwed in the process...i mean there is a reason why we seperate juvenile convictions from adult convictions because there is a major difference in reasoning and maturity...it allows for teens to be punished but change their ways and become productive adults..if they want to... but once a charge affects the rest of persons life you might as well do away with the juvenile system as well allready charge some as adults and execute a few or at least we ve tried.

well thats my two cents....its frustrating to me because im being denied for a juvenile misdemeanor conviction....13 friggin years ago...

 

[KBCraig]

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Pagan wrote:

Now if you were convicted on a federal felony charge, congress has suspended the funding for the program to reinstate your 2A rights, and you are basically screwed...

You're still screwed.

Under federal law, if you have ever been convicted of any offense whose maximum punishment is greater than 365 days in prison (maximum available punishment, not what you were actually sentenced to), then you remain a "prohibited person" for the rest of your life.

If you've been able to purchase firearms from a Virginia dealer, it's because VSP processes the NICS check. If Virginia used the FBI NICS system, you'd be denied, and possibly prosecuted for making a false statement on the 4473. If you've bought them privately, the feds still consider you a "prohibited person".

You don't get cleared by the feds no matter what paperwork you have; as you noted, Congress has forbidden spending any money on the restoration of firearms rights for formerly-convicted persons.

In my career, I've seen several instances of people who were legal by state law, but were convicted on federal charges of being a felon in possession of a firearm.

 

[diesel556]

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KBCraig wrote:

You don't get cleared by the feds no matter what paperwork you have; as you noted, Congress has forbidden spending any money on the restoration of firearms rights for formerly-convicted persons.

In my career, I've seen several instances of people who were legal by state law, but were convicted on federal charges of being a felon in possession of a firearm.

This is exactly why the loss of rights should be decided on a case by case basis from the beginning at trial, or with automatic restoration after a period of probation. Put the onus on those who would abrogate your rights, and not on the people.

How can anyone argue that this is not a broken system?

 

[diesel556]

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