Stopped in Warren today.

[zigziggityzoo]

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Venator wrote:

Okay, I suggest we settle down a bit and not blindly jump into this.  I have been burned before.  MOC is working on this.  I have PMed the OP poster and asked him to call me and have advised him of a few options.  After I talk with him I will contact the Warren Chief and try to get this straighted out.  

If what has been described is true then he has a very good case of a civil rights violation.  The Warren PD and the Chief know that OC is legal and if they have decided to handle single OCers in an unlawful way then this needs to be corrected.

Just having a picnic doesn't address the issue. The department's official message says that they are aware OC is legal, and their officers have been educated. This one needs a lawsuit individual officers, and federal criminal prosecution.

 

[thekunk47]

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I think a long stroll with a bunch of open carriers is the best idea. Be sure someone has a video camera. I'll be there with my 1911 and my snubby backup.They can't be allowed to get away with that bullshit. Mike Cox may be the one to contact. Ask him to go for a stroll with us.What time does it start?

 

[T Vance]

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I have not read all the posts yet, but I suggest that you don't file a complaint. First thing you need to do is file a FOIA and get ALL AUDIO, VIDEO, NOTES, REPORTS, ETC pertaining to your stop. Call that in first thing in the morning!!!

 

[T Vance]

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BTW, take pictures of any damage that was done to your body by that LEO ASAP!!!

 

[autosurgeon]

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OK to sum up the order of what needs to be done out of all the ideas posted here.

1. Pictures of your injuries, do that tonight.

2. FOI everything pertaining to the incedent.

3. Discuss with Attorney.

4. Plan how you will deal with this with said Attorney.

5. Do NOT post any details of your plans on here!

Let someone else handle the picnic or march if that is felt to be needed!

 

[ghostrider]

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First,
What Venator said.

Second,

FatboyCykes wrote:

Something needs to be done about this. Jim Simmons is known to be Anti-OC, and focuses mostly on self-defense cases. Call Dean Greenblatt, maybe he'll be interested in the case. (248)644-7520 is the number.

Yes, don't expect any support from Jim Simmons on this. It doesn't hurt to get his opinion, but do not settle for just one laywar's opinion. Get several opinions on it and then decide.

For an individual to contact the PD about an incident like this is something I would not advise. The more you talk to them, the more chances you have of weakening your case. Furthermore, they don't need the education. They already know it's legal, and that it isn't RAS to stop someone. They are harassing people because they know that there isn't any money to take a case to court yet. If your not going to do that, then why educate them so that they can be better insulated for the next guy they do this to.

 

[T Vance]

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Ghostrider is right. The more you say to them, the more they can create a "story" that excuses what they did in court. I suggest you remove your story you originally posted too!

That department, and those officers need to pay for what they did to you! Call a few different lawyers (those consultations are usually free) and see what each one has to say. Don't let the one's that say "You don't have a case..." keep you down. The way I look at you, YOU HAVE A CASE!

Cover all your bases!

 

[Michigander]

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Sheesh, what can I say. Officers like that need to be fired, and sent to prison on federal charges. If the PD has any respect for itself and the people it serves, they will fire the idiot who drew on you and any other officer who seriously violated your rights, and press charges against them.

If you can swing it, I hope you'll pursue a deprivation of rights under color of law lawsuit. If you can't, please at least make the formal FBI color of law complaint.

If they don't act to swiftly correct this (and their history leads me to believe they won't), we need quadrupled efforts in warren if they think they can get away with this shit. All of you warren guys, please know that I am ready willing and able to meet up with you on a regular basis. I will be out of town for a few days starting tomorrow, but I mean it, let me know, and we can meet up twice a week or more, preferably in heavily patrolled areas.

If they are going to use deadly force (that's what drawing on someone is) it would be better to have at least 2 people at a time for safety and witnessing reasons.

I'm generally pro police and anti confrontation, but if they want a challenge, I say we give it to them. With video cameras, press releases, law suits, federal complaints, and hopefully prison time for felony committing officers.

 

[Haman J.T.]

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T Vance wrote:

I have not read all the posts yet, but I suggest that you don't file a complaint. First thing you need to do is file a FOIA and get ALL AUDIO, VIDEO, NOTES, REPORTS, ETC pertaining to your stop. Call that in first thing in the morning!!!

Got that on my list.I wouldn't plan on going in to make a complaint antill I order the FOIA and have someone go with me. I can handle only so much BS and lies.

 

[Haman J.T.]

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T Vance wrote:

BTW, take pictures of any damage that was done to your body by that LEO ASAP!!!

Thanks for the info.

 

[Citizen]

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hamaneggs wrote:

T Vance wrote:

I have not read all the posts yet, but I suggest that you don't file a complaint. First thing you need to do is file a FOIA and get ALL AUDIO, VIDEO, NOTES, REPORTS, ETC pertaining to your stop. Call that in first thing in the morning!!!

Got that on my list.I wouldn't plan on going in to make a complaint antill I order the FOIA and have someone go with me. I can handle only so much BS and lies.

Don't go. Send in the mail. You gain nothing by going. The only people who benefit are the police. You are under no obligation to follow their procedure.

 

[autosurgeon]

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Remember you can report color of law abuses yourself to the FBI.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

 

[Michigander]

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autosurgeon wrote:

Remember you can report color of law abuses yourself to the FBI.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

Remember to do that only after a law suit, or if a law suit is not permissible because of costs. If someone at the FBI were to know someone at the WPD, they could slant some evidence, and make it harder to win a law suit. I'm not trying to imply anything about anyone, because I could be talking completely out of my ass, but as a general, overly precautious rule, I think that the FBI should be turned to last, or as the only option available.

Another thing to consider is that if they took your ID without proper consent, you can complain to the MSP. The MSP investigate illegal LEIN system checks. If however you in some way consented, then you have nothing to complain about. I know you told them where it was, but depending on the specifics, you might have a legit complaint.

 

[Citizen]

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Michigander wrote:

SNIP If however you in some way consented, then you have nothing to complain about. I know you told them where it was, but depending on the specifics, you might have a legit complaint.

I'm not too knowledgeable aboutall the angles on consent, but I'm betting that having a gun pointed at you and being in handcuffs would qualify as submitting to a show of authority rather than a knowing waiver of rights.

 

[Haman J.T.]

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autosurgeon wrote:

Remember you can report color of law abuses yourself to the FBI.

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm

Good Idea.

 

[autosurgeon]

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Remember as others have mentioned the FBI should be a last resort or at least used after you have your information and plan with the Attorney.

 

[Haman J.T.]

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Citizen wrote:

Michigander wrote:

SNIP If however you in some way consented, then you have nothing to complain about. I know you told them where it was, but depending on the specifics, you might have a legit complaint.

I'm not too knowledgeable aboutall the angles on consent, but I'm betting that having a gun pointed at you and being in handcuffs would qualify as submitting to a show of authority rather than a knowing waiver of rights.

YUP!

 

[Michigander]

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Citizen wrote:

Michigander wrote:

SNIP If however you in some way consented, then you have nothing to complain about. I know you told them where it was, but depending on the specifics, you might have a legit complaint.

I'm not too knowledgeable aboutall the angles on consent, but I'm betting that having a gun pointed at you and being in handcuffs would qualify as submitting to a show of authority rather than a knowing waiver of rights.

The gun pointing thing is vastly more serious than the ID scan, but it's interesting that they can be linked like that. I hadn't thought of that.

The ID thing is basically just another angle to go after them. Any time you are taking on an adversary with way more power than you have, you must throw everything you have at it with the most sensible means possible. This rule especially applies to legal action against criminal police, and any court room situation. There is no one best thing to do. Mercilessly give em everything you've got.

 

[mikestilly]

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This is unreal. Lets do what we can do to put an end to this type of unlawfulness.

 

[thekunk47]

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I agree that the FBI should be contacted.We must remember tp keep recording equipment with us at all times and remember either badge numbers, names or squad car numbers as they can check their locations at certain times. It may be time for a sting operation as they seem to prey on lone carriers. I sent a letter to the Mayor,along with a copy of the incident and the laws pertaining to it. There are always 2 sides to every story but if the complaintent was just walking along not touching his gun this was Gestapo tactics. I'll be a part of any action anyone wishes to take.We can picket outside the police station armed legally.