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The DISCLOSE Act and the NRA: Some Bad News, H. A. von Spakovsky on NationalReview.com

wrightme

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eye95 wrote:
I'll put the question to the general board populace:

Did the NRA express support, remove their disapproval, or not react (leaving their disapproval in place) after the change in the bill that exempted them from its provisions?

(Please note: I am not looking for NRA-bashing, just a simple answer to a simple question. I am interested in the facts only. I'll make my own judgment.)

They left their disapproval in place.


Other groups chose to attack the NRA, as opposed to attacking the bill and the Democrats.


Also, if you are truly "interested in the facts only," you would do better to seek them out; as opposed to asking others here for opinion.
 

crstrode

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wrightme wrote:
They DID the right thing. They focus on the 2nd Amendment. Do you think they should spend their political capital (and the dues and donations of NRA members) on non-2nd Amendment issues? Follow the ball. Why do other groups spend time bashing the NRA instead of focusing on the issues they were created to focus on?

The character of the NRA in this is exactly where it should be; focused on the 2nd Amendment wrt the membership of the NRA.


Now Pelosi tabled this bill because the Democrats provided an exemption for the NRA and other organizations of similar demographics.
You are correct.

What amazes me is that these obvious facts escape the majority of people - not just here, but even in the arch-conservative blogs, and columns.

Most folks cannot see the forest for the trees.

NRA's actions resulted in the best of all outcomes - the bill has gone by the wayside.

At least for now.

Pelosi et al. know full well that the average man on the street has an attention span about equal to the time between a traffic light turning green and when the horns start honking.
 

eye95

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wrightme wrote:
eye95 wrote:
I'll put the question to the general board populace:

Did the NRA express support, remove their disapproval, or not react (leaving their disapproval in place) after the change in the bill that exempted them from its provisions?

(Please note: I am not looking for NRA-bashing, just a simple answer to a simple question. I am interested in the facts only. I'll make my own judgment.)
They left their disapproval in place.

Other groups chose to attack the NRA, as opposed to attacking the bill and the Democrats.

Also, if you are truly "interested in the facts only," you would do better to seek them out; as opposed to asking others here for opinion.
Thank you. I think the thread would have read better (and your point would have been made stronger) had this answer immediately followed your post.

So, in sum, the NRA opposed the bill. The Dems changed it to exempt the NRA, thinking maybe they'd earn the NRA's support. Despite reports to the contrary, the NRA continued to oppose the bill. Still not having the support of gun-rights advocates and losing the support of hard-liners, Pelosi pulled the bill that would have gone down in flames.
 

GWbiker

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- the bill has gone by the wayside.

At least for now.

Pelosi et al. know full well that the average man on the street has an attention span about equal to the time between a traffic light turning  green and when the horns start honking.

So very true.

The Pelosi way of doing business is slick, sneaky - not unlike Feinstein who got her way with anti gun bills by sneaking in her legislation as an attachment to an otherwise harmless bill that Congress and the NRA was too freakin' lazy to dig out and read.
 

KBCraig

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wrightme wrote:
They DID the right thing. They focus on the 2nd Amendment. Do you think they should spend their political capital (and the dues and donations of NRA members) on non-2nd Amendment issues?
Without the 1st Amendment, they can't spend any of their vaunted "political capital", because the store will be closed. Or at least it will be closed to them, with a big "Your kind not welcome here" sign hanging out front.
 

wrightme

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KBCraig wrote:
wrightme wrote:
They DID the right thing. They focus on the 2nd Amendment. Do you think they should spend their political capital (and the dues and donations of NRA members) on non-2nd Amendment issues?
Without the 1st Amendment, they can't spend any of their vaunted "political capital", because the store will be closed. Or at least it will be closed to them, with a big "Your kind not welcome here" sign hanging out front.
EXACTLY. That is why they opposed (and oppose) the bill.
 

SlackwareRobert

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I asked the NRA caller how they suggest we defend the 2nd amendment
when they support banning the first amendment? Asked if the organization was
advocating shooting protests in DC since we won't be able to use our voices?
She at least admitted they are catching hell from us about it.

Told her that if you are against a law, you don't show it by getting your own
private exemption, you oppose it period, and hung up.

If it was a calculated reverse psychology tactic on the left they didn't think about
all the backlash from the flyover country that like rights not government.
After all the deal making with them on gun control, they have to much dirt on their
hands to claim they aren't in bed with the pelosi types, as long as they are
on the winning side the hell with the people. They just got it backwards, the
hell with them.
 

wrightme

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SlackwareRobert wrote:
I asked the NRA caller how they suggest we defend the 2nd amendment
when they support banning the first amendment?
Asked if the organization was
advocating shooting protests in DC since we won't be able to use our voices?
She at least admitted they are catching hell from us about it.

Told her that if you are against a law, you don't show it by getting your own
private exemption, you oppose it period, and hung up.

If it was a calculated reverse psychology tactic on the left they didn't think about
all the backlash from the flyover country that like rights not government.
After all the deal making with them on gun control, they have to much dirt on their
hands to claim they aren't in bed with the pelosi types, as long as they are
on the winning side the hell with the people. They just got it backwards, the
hell with them.
They do not support banning the first amendment. :quirky Any such claim is sheer hyperbole on your part.

They did not show opposition by "getting their own private exemption." The Democrats in Congress crafted a blanket exemption for large organizations over a certain size, with a certain age. The NRA did fit this, and was likely a reason for the specifics the Democrats chose.

The Democrats in congress are those who should have your ire.
 

SlackwareRobert

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Oh, congress does have my ire, and that won't change.
But an exemption written to only fit one person. Much like the
katrina buyout they wrote to bribe for the votes on obama care.

If there was no opposition to the bill from the NRA, then why have such a
narrow exception for just them put in so they won't oppose it?
That the congress could even consider that only old folks who have proven
they will go along with 'reasonable gun laws' have freedom of speech should
scare the h*ll out of you.

Remember a right given is a right that can be taken away.
But if you have no speech then you can only shoot in support of the 2A,
there is no other logical result that I can figure out.
Guess Chris Mathews was right and ahead of the curve on the tea party.:what::banghead::banghead:

As I said, if it was a calculated strategy to kill the bill, with their track record
it was a very bad bed to jump into.
 

wrightme

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SlackwareRobert wrote:
Oh, congress does have my ire, and that won't change.
But an exemption written to only fit one person. Much like the
katrina buyout they wrote to bribe for the votes on obama care.
The exemption was not written to only fit one person. That is one of the things that the anti-nra groups are being deceptive about.
 

wrightme

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SlackwareRobert wrote:
Remember a right given is a right that can be taken away.
But if you have no speech then you can only shoot in support of the 2A,
there is no other logical result that I can figure out.
There is no right being taken away. Is the bill a bald-faced attempt to make speech much more difficult for special interest groups? HELL YES.


It is likely unconstitutional. It is also a red herring that anti-nra groups are tossing out there to try to boost their memberships at the expense of the membership of the nra; as typical.
 

wrightme

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Doug Huffman wrote:
wrightme wrote:
It is also a red herring that anti-nra groups are tossing out there to try to boost their memberships at the expense of the membership of the nra; as typical.
Good cop:Bad cop::BCPGV:NRA OR NRA:BCPGV::Good cop:Bad cop

It's all about control, guns, money, thought, opinion.
You can always choose to not accept being controlled. If you want.
 

zack991

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Doug Huffman wrote:
wrightme wrote:
It is also a red herring that anti-nra groups are tossing out there to try to boost their memberships at the expense of the membership of the nra; as typical.
Good cop:Bad cop::BCPGV:NRA OR NRA:BCPGV::Good cop:Bad cop

It's all about control, guns, money, thought, opinion.
Agreed, I literally just got off the phone with the NRA and they had asked me to see if I was willing to give a donation I politely said no thank you. He then to proceeded to say well don't you care about all the Gun Bans that are currently trying to be passed.

I tried to be as polite as I could, but the call went from a friendly hello to a fast talking used car sells-man that would not take a no thank you, not at this time. He had to be reading off a cheat sheet to be speaking so quickly, I was barley able to get a word in at all. When I was able to talk to them I said no thank you and hung up.

I was called back 6 times and had to turn my phone off, now I understand what he was trying to do and that is understandable but giving a person the gilt trip and accusing me of not carrying goes way to far. Now.... they are not the only group that does this, but it really rubs me the wrong way any group pulls this crap. This is the first time the NRA has ever pushed me this way, to either re-up or give a donation. I have fully supported the NRA in many things they do, and will do again when this nonsense stops. I have posed me grieves with them in the past on here, and I still support many of their youth programs. I have never ever been hounded like this by the NRA or any other group as much. The number I constantly got hounded from was (866)598-9904
 

AtackDuck

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Mr. Keene's letter is quite different fromMr. LaPierre's and Chris Cox's in that, it was from the letters of LaPierre and Cox that everyone got the impression of the NRA throwing all other gun orgs under the bus, saying that the NRA would not oppose thebill if the NRA was exempted. What else are we to assumewhen that is what they wrote?I would like to believe that the NRA is honorable and would not abandon the others, but that is not what I and many others read in LaPierre and Cox's letters.

It looks as if the situation may actually work out to kill the bill. The question remains: Will the NRA fight for the other gun orgs, or will they say"wemust protect our own, sink or swim." Can we trust the NRA?
 

wrightme

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AtackDuck wrote:
Mr. Keene's letter is quite different fromMr. LaPierre's and Chris Cox's in that, it was from the letters of LaPierre and Cox that everyone got the impression of the NRA throwing all other gun orgs under the bus, saying that the NRA would not oppose thebill if the NRA was exempted. What else are we to assumewhen that is what they wrote?I would like to believe that the NRA is honorable and would not abandon the others, but that is not what I and many others read in LaPierre and Cox's letters.

It looks as if the situation may actually work out to kill the bill. The question remains: Will the NRA fight for the other gun orgs, or will they say"wemust protect our own, sink or swim." Can we trust the NRA?
I do not see that in any of the NRA letters. Where is it?
 

eye95

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AtackDuck wrote:
... it was from the letters of LaPierre and Cox that everyone got the impression of the NRA throwing all other gun orgs under the bus, saying that the NRA would not oppose thebill if the NRA was exempted...
Can someone show me where the NRA said that they would not oppose the bill if the NRA were exempted, or is it just the impression some around here?

Cuz, I really don't give a flying fig about the impressions of folks predisposed to bash the NRA. I keep asking what they said about supporting or not supporting the bill after the change resulted in their exemption.
 

wrightme

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eye95 wrote:
AtackDuck wrote:
... it was from the letters of LaPierre and Cox that everyone got the impression of the NRA throwing all other gun orgs under the bus, saying that the NRA would not oppose thebill if the NRA was exempted...
Can someone show me where the NRA said that they would not oppose the bill if the NRA were exempted, or is it just the impression some around here?

Cuz, I really don't give a flying fig about the impressions of folks predisposed to bash the NRA. I keep asking what they said about supporting or not supporting the bill after the change resulted in their exemption.
The best person to ask that question of is the source of much of that "truthy" viewpoint:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudley_Brown

RMGO
NAGR
NRAWOL

ALL are properties of his. In addition, he has ties to GONV, which is also spamming against the NRA about this.
 

AtackDuck

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wrightme wrote:
AtackDuck wrote:
Mr. Keene's letter is quite different fromMr. LaPierre's and Chris Cox's in that, it was from the letters of LaPierre and Cox that everyone got the impression of the NRA throwing all other gun orgs under the bus, saying that the NRA would not oppose thebill if the NRA was exempted. What else are we to assumewhen that is what they wrote?I would like to believe that the NRA is honorable and would not abandon the others, but that is not what I and many others read in LaPierre and Cox's letters.

It looks as if the situation may actually work out to kill the bill. The question remains: Will the NRA fight for the other gun orgs, or will they say"wemust protect our own, sink or swim." Can we trust the NRA?
I do not see that in any of the NRA letters. Where is it?

[align=left]See in bold below. From NRAILA.com[/align]
[align=center][/align]
[align=center]Setting The Record Straight On The “DISCLOSE Act”[/align]

Friday, June 18, 2010


We appreciate the concerns some NRA members have raised about our positionon H.R. 5175, the “DISCLOSE Act.” Unfortunately, the mainstream media andother critics of NRA’s role in this process have misstated or misunderstood the facts. We’d like to set the record straight.

We have never said we would support any version of this bill. To the contrary, we clearly stated NRA’s strong opposition to the DISCLOSE Act (as introduced) in a letter sent to Members of Congress on May 26 (click here to read the letter).

Through the courts and in Congress, the NRA has consistently and strongly opposed any effort to restrict the rights of our four million members to speak and have their voices heard on behalf of gun owners nationwide. The initial version of H.R. 5175 would effectively have put a gag order on the NRA during elections and threatened our members’ right to privacy and freedom of association, by forcing us to turn our donor lists over to the federal government. We would also have been forced to list our top donors on all election-related television, radio and Internet ads and mailings—even mailings to our own members. We refuse to let this Congress impose those unconstitutional restrictions on our Association.

The introduced version of the bill would also have prohibited political speech by all federal government contractors. The NRA has contracts to provide critical firearm training for our Armed Forces and law enforcement agencies throughout the country. The bill would have forced us to choose between training our men and women in uniform and exercising our right to free political speech. We refused to let this Congress force us to make that choice.

We told Congress we opposed the bill. Consequently, congressional leadersannounced they wouldexempt us from its draconian restrictions onpolitical speech. If that happens, we will not be involved in final consideration of this bill in the House. If it doesn’t, we will strongly oppose the bill.

Our position is based on principle and experience. During consideration of the previous campaign finance legislation passed in 2002, congressional leadership repeatedly refused to exempt the NRA from its provisions, promising that our concerns would be fixed somewhere down the line. That didn’t happen; instead, the NRA had to live under those restrictions for seven years and spend millions of dollars on compliance costs and on legal fees to challenge the law. We will not go down that road again when we have an opportunity to protect our ability to speak.

There are those who say the NRA should put the Second Amendment at risk over a First Amendment principle. That’s easy to say—unless you have a sworn duty to protect the Second Amendment above all else, as we do.

The NRA is a non-partisan, single-issue organization made up of millions of individual members dedicated to the protection of the Second Amendment. We do not represent the interests of other organizations. That’s their responsibility. Our responsibility is to protect and defend the interests of our members. And that we do without apology.

Today, the fate of the bill remains in doubt. The House floor debate has repeatedly been postponed. Lawmakers and outside groups who once supported the bill, or took no position—including the Brady Campaign—have now come out against it because of the announcement regarding NRA. The outcome in the Senate is even murkier, as anti-gun Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) has announced her strong opposition to the proposed change.

No matter what may happen now, NRA members can be assured that protection of gun owners’ interests will remain NRA’s top priority. Please check in regularly at [url]www.nraila.org[/url] for the latest news on this issue.

So,how are they opposing this bill ifthey are just "not involved in final consideration of this bill in the House."??

The way I read it, "We got ours, screw the rest of you."
 
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