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The No-Knock Warrant MUST GO!!

va_tazdad

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2009
Messages
1,162
Location
Richmond, Virginia, USA
Lol

Logic alone didn't work out too well for Socrates either.

If logic, common sense and truth worked there would be no anti fools.

As it is now, they don't acknowledge truth and will not consider logic or common sense. These fools think criminals obey their No Guns Allowed signs and Gun Free Zones.
 
Last edited:

sudden valley gunner

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
16,674
Location
Whatcom County
Did you mean Gleichschaltung, coordination and forcible-coordination?

Going by memory and not good with German.

It was the Nazi's streamlining of the "justice" system which systematically also stripped away some checks and balances for easier convictions. FDR loved it and started instituting the same policies, it's one reason prosecutors went having very little power to having tremendously too much power now.
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,516
Location
Northern Piedmont
Hes claiming he didn't know it was police. He shot a cop knowingly and now he's going to try and use castle doctrine to cover it up.

Shift to Va. law, which I know something about: what difference does it make if it was a cop, or whether he knew it was a cop? If the cop was acting as a cop, he'd have done what's required under Virginia "defense of habitation" rules: knock or ring, announce himself as law enforcement; and give the homeowner time to come to the door peaceably. Even if he had a valid warrant, bursting in without following that rule, he's just another home-invader.

The fact that evidence obtained in connection with a no-knock warrant is admissible under the Fourth Amendment doesn't make that method of entry legal. The whole rationale behind the castle doctrine as it exists in Virginia is that unannounced entry is that it's likely to get cops shot for no good reason.

At trial, I'd argue that, not only was the homeowner's valid defense was "defense of habitation", but that it's completely irrelevant to the criminal charges arising out of the homicide that the intruder was a cop or that he had a warrant. I'd do a motion in limine prior to trial to see that those bits of information were never produced in evidence, and when (notice I didn't say, "if"?) one of the Commonwealth's witnesses blabbed about it in violation of the order, I'd move for a mistrial. At the worst, I'd have a really good appealable issue that would be news and political fodder.

In Virginia there is no authority that I know of granting any judicial officer the power to issue a "no-knock" warrant. And because that law antedated the Virginia Constitution separating the powers into three branches, it would take an act of the legislature and gubernatorial signature to create such authority.
 

marshaul

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
11,188
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia
Shift to Va. law, which I know something about: what difference does it make if it was a cop, or whether he knew it was a cop? If the cop was acting as a cop, he'd have done what's required under Virginia "defense of habitation" rules: knock or ring, announce himself as law enforcement; and give the homeowner time to come to the door peaceably. Even if he had a valid warrant, bursting in without following that rule, he's just another home-invader.

The fact that evidence obtained in connection with a no-knock warrant is admissible under the Fourth Amendment doesn't make that method of entry legal. The whole rationale behind the castle doctrine as it exists in Virginia is that unannounced entry is that it's likely to get cops shot for no good reason.

At trial, I'd argue that, not only was the homeowner's valid defense was "defense of habitation", but that it's completely irrelevant to the criminal charges arising out of the homicide that the intruder was a cop or that he had a warrant. I'd do a motion in limine prior to trial to see that those bits of information were never produced in evidence, and when (notice I didn't say, "if"?) one of the Commonwealth's witnesses blabbed about it in violation of the order, I'd move for a mistrial. At the worst, I'd have a really good appealable issue that would be news and political fodder.

In Virginia there is no authority that I know of granting any judicial officer the power to issue a "no-knock" warrant. And because that law antedated the Virginia Constitution separating the powers into three branches, it would take an act of the legislature and gubernatorial signature to create such authority.

Great post. Thanks.
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Shift to Va. law, which I know something about: what difference does it make if it was a cop, or whether he knew it was a cop? If the cop was acting as a cop, he'd have done what's required under Virginia "defense of habitation" rules: knock or ring, announce himself as law enforcement; and give the homeowner time to come to the door peaceably. Even if he had a valid warrant, bursting in without following that rule, he's just another home-invader.

The fact that evidence obtained in connection with a no-knock warrant is admissible under the Fourth Amendment doesn't make that method of entry legal. The whole rationale behind the castle doctrine as it exists in Virginia is that unannounced entry is that it's likely to get cops shot for no good reason.

At trial, I'd argue that, not only was the homeowner's valid defense was "defense of habitation", but that it's completely irrelevant to the criminal charges arising out of the homicide that the intruder was a cop or that he had a warrant. I'd do a motion in limine prior to trial to see that those bits of information were never produced in evidence, and when (notice I didn't say, "if"?) one of the Commonwealth's witnesses blabbed about it in violation of the order, I'd move for a mistrial. At the worst, I'd have a really good appealable issue that would be news and political fodder.

In Virginia there is no authority that I know of granting any judicial officer the power to issue a "no-knock" warrant. And because that law antedated the Virginia Constitution separating the powers into three branches, it would take an act of the legislature and gubernatorial signature to create such authority.
I like it, more than you can know. It seems to describe the world as it should be. But it doesn't explain why Ryan Frederick is sitting in jail tonight. How do we get out of the theoretical into real life?

TFred
 

2a4all

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
1,846
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
I like it, more than you can know. It seems to describe the world as it should be. But it doesn't explain why Ryan Frederick is sitting in jail tonight. How do we get out of the theoretical into real life?

TFred
Tfred:

The tide may be turning. I recently read of (or heard on the news) of several "Home invasions with a warrant" that gave credence to the homeowner's position. One was an unannounced entry which cost one of the officers his life, and the grand jury refused to indict the homeowner (like Ryan, this guy was targeted for drugs) http://www.westernjournalism.com/te...dict-homeowner-shooting-death-sheriffs-deputy/ , another (Navy SEAL impersonator) where the cops waited outside until he brought his kids out to get the school bus, where he was arrested without any resistance http://www.4029tv.com/news/arkansas...-arrested-by-authorities-in-garfield/24483948. This guy had been conducting serious self defense courses and was known to be heavily armed.

Could it be that the message is getting out?
 

Fuller Malarkey

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
Some of you may find this related and of interest:

https://www.rutherford.org/publicat...upreme_court_to_ensure_that_lawful_gun_owners

The Rutherford Institute has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to hear a case of a Texas man that was shot during a no-knock raid on his home. The basis for the no-knock warrant was the suspicion of legally owned firearms in the man's home. There was some suspicion the man's son might have some weed.

In asking the Supreme Court to hear the case of Quinn v. State of Texas, Rutherford Institute attorneys argue that making lawful gun ownership and possession grounds for police to evade the protections afforded by the Fourth Amendment improperly penalizes and limits the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

John W. Whitehead is the backbone of the Rutherford Institute. Followers of Lew Rockwell may be familiar with his pro-liberty stance and his tenacity in exposing government encroachments on the freedom of citizens.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/author/john-w-whitehead/

He has another book out:

A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State
 

TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Some of you may find this related and of interest:

https://www.rutherford.org/publicat...upreme_court_to_ensure_that_lawful_gun_owners

The Rutherford Institute has asked the U.S. Supreme Court to hear a case of a Texas man that was shot during a no-knock raid on his home. The basis for the no-knock warrant was the suspicion of legally owned firearms in the man's home. There was some suspicion the man's son might have some weed.

In asking the Supreme Court to hear the case of Quinn v. State of Texas, Rutherford Institute attorneys argue that making lawful gun ownership and possession grounds for police to evade the protections afforded by the Fourth Amendment improperly penalizes and limits the Second Amendment right to bear arms.

John W. Whitehead is the backbone of the Rutherford Institute. Followers of Lew Rockwell may be familiar with his pro-liberty stance and his tenacity in exposing government encroachments on the freedom of citizens.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/author/john-w-whitehead/

He has another book out:

A Government of Wolves: The Emerging American Police State
If I understand that case correctly, they are asking for the SCOTUS to simply rule that otherwise legal possession of a firearm does not by itself justify the issue of a "no-knock warrant." While that is certainly something we would see as a no-brainer, what we really need is for the SCOTUS to declare that absent the already well-established exigent circumstances protocols, there is never a justification for a "no-knock warrant!"

SCOTUS rarey, if ever, rules outside the scope of the case under review (remember that awful "presumptively lawful" phrase in Heller?), so I would be very surprised if this one is what we are hoping for, beyond the particular facts at hand, of course.

In fact, if SCOTUS does issue a narrow ruling, even in "our favor," so to speak, the absence of a position on the "no-knock warrant" itself would likely validate it as fully legal - certainly in the minds of the LEO community.

TFred
 

OC for ME

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
12,452
Location
White Oak Plantation
If logic, common sense and truth worked there would be no anti fools.

As it is now, they don't acknowledge truth and will not consider logic or common sense. These fools think criminals obey their No Guns Allowed signs and Gun Free Zones.
I disagree, if there were no liberals there would be no anti fools. Liberals know the facts, they just don't care. Their agenda, there liberalism, is too important to them to have facts obstruct their liberal agenda.

Remember, a liberal is a liberal first and foremost. All other considerations are secondary. The advancement of their agenda, regardless of the "carnage" they create along the way, even to their own, is the only "thing" on their mind.
 

Fuller Malarkey

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Joined
Sep 12, 2010
Messages
1,020
Location
The Cadre
If I understand that case correctly, they are asking for the SCOTUS to simply rule that otherwise legal possession of a firearm does not by itself justify the issue of a "no-knock warrant." While that is certainly something we would see as a no-brainer, what we really need is for the SCOTUS to declare that absent the already well-established exigent circumstances protocols, there is never a justification for a "no-knock warrant!"

SCOTUS rarey, if ever, rules outside the scope of the case under review (remember that awful "presumptively lawful" phrase in Heller?), so I would be very surprised if this one is what we are hoping for, beyond the particular facts at hand, of course.

In fact, if SCOTUS does issue a narrow ruling, even in "our favor," so to speak, the absence of a position on the "no-knock warrant" itself would likely validate it as fully legal - certainly in the minds of the LEO community.

TFred

I agree this case is not a cure all. I do see it as a step in the right direction, and as the action is instigated by a Virginia based civil rights AND gun friendly entity, it may bear watching and the Institute propelling the court case considered a possible source to approach for similar actions in the Commonwealth.

I think it wishful thinking to believe a wand will be passed to contain the rampant abuse of the no-knock warrant [reports indicate over 80,000 a year occur here in the land of the free]. Over a ten year period, that would cipher to uh, oh, what, about 800,000 violations of citizens in the name of making the job easier and satisfying the crave for adrenaline rushes for commando SEAL wannabes? Mostly for a plant?

Utah has legislation on the table to restrict the abuse of the no knock - no rights warrant.

http://www.standard.net/stories/201...cize-bill-restricting-forcible-entry-warrants

Utah police chiefs criticize bill restricting forcible-entry warrants

House Bill 70 would require police officers to prove to a judge that there are no less invasive methods possible for obtaining permission for a "no knock" entry into a residence.

Talk about raining on the cop's parade.

"We recognize that police officers often have a tough job, but we also affirm that government's role is to protect life, liberty, and property," said Libertas Institute President Connor Boyack.

That right there is the message I think we need to get across, loud enough and forceful enough to drown out the prevailing logical fallacy of "officer safety". Government agents have a reasonable expectation of being able to do their jobs in the least dangerous means possible, that expectation NOT TO OUTWEIGH THE RIGHTS OF THOSE THEY SERVE.

Issuing no knock warrants to police too inept to do the homework verifying the presence or absence of children, elderly, mentally handicapped, or issued to police that blatantly disregard those people that could be harmed or killed in an orchestrated military invasion of a home is criminal.

I try to keep my fingers on the pulse of state activity, making note of who opposes the reclaiming of our rights, and what approaches are winning us regained ground. While it seems so obvious what needs to be done, I think it a little obtuse not to recognize and highlight who is behind the efforts at dismissing our attempts to regain our rights. They can be recognized by their growing number of tanks and funding demands for paramilitary training.
 
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