Then shoot me... If I'm stealing your money by threat of force then shoot me...

[WalkingWolf]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011...-of-americans-personal-spending-goes-to-china

This says that less then 3 percent of Personal spending goes to China. So if you took 10% of 3% would that be alot? I don't think so...

Almost everything in commerce is imported, overall it would be much higher. But I do question your 3% claim, Cite?

BTW personal spending includes medical bills, food, rent, house payments, utility payments. 3% of commerce with China would be huge, the rest of the money would come from downsizing the federal government.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Please cite. I looked into it and the towns I found were just a big piece of land with buildings on it. No residents. So like a wild west stage town. Please cite an Active town that actually has residents that live there and work there, that is completely private, including the roads.

Kim Basinger owns the town of Braselton, Georgia population 7,875. You didn't look very hard.

 

[Primus]

Almost everything in commerce is imported, overall it would be much higher. But I do question your 3% claim, Cite?

BTW personal spending includes medical bills, food, rent, house payments, utility payments. 3% of commerce with China would be huge, the rest of the money would come from downsizing the federal government.

Cite? The psot you cited HAS my cite. It's the npr.org website right ABOVE your request for citation..... and it explains more in depth about health care.

 

[Primus]

Not sure why I'm bothering to engage you.... but here goes.


It feels like everything we buy comes from China. In fact, less than 3 percent of personal spending in the U.S. goes to China, according to a new report from the SF Fed.
That's partly because most personal spending goes to things like health care and housing that are, by definition, produced in the U.S.
But even when you look at the "goods" category, Americans spend way more on stuff that's made in the U.S. than on stuff that's made in China.
For the big-ticket items in the durable goods category (cars, furniture, etc.), about two thirds of personal spending goes to stuff made in the U.S. Just over 10 percent goes to China.
For smaller stuff — food, clothes, gas, etc. — 76 percent of personal spending goes to goods made in the U.S., and 6 percent goes to goods made in China.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011...-of-americans-personal-spending-goes-to-china

 

[WalkingWolf]

Cite? The psot you cited HAS my cite. It's the npr.org website right ABOVE your request for citation..... and it explains more in depth about health care.

BLOGS are NOT cites, I will not waste my time on them, anybody that uses them is simply not capable.

 

[Primus]

Kim Basinger owns the town of Braselton, Georgia population 7,875. You didn't look very hard.

Incorrect... she DID own it but sold it for 1 million. Bought for 20 and sold for 1.

But a good example none the less, I wonder how it worked, sounds like she "owned" it on paper but let the .gov run it, amazing.

 

[Primus]

BLOGS are NOT cites, I will not waste my time on them, anybody that uses them is simply not capable.

I apologize for the "not worthy of your time cite". I guess you can find your own site, or better yet pound sand. I'm done engaging with you.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Incorrect... she DID own it but sold it for 1 million. Bought for 20 and sold for 1.

But a good example none the less, I wonder how it worked, sounds like she "owned" it on paper but let the .gov run it, amazing.

Did YOU read what you posted above, it does not matter whether she sold it or not, it was privately owned with infrastructure and residents. So you are admitting that you knew there were privately owned towns and knew of at least one, yet you questioned the validity of the claim.

VERY dishonest! But I am not surprised!

 

[notalawyer]

Kim Basinger owns the town of Braselton, Georgia population 7,875. You didn't look very hard.

Neither did you!

She purchased most of the commercial property and some residential from a private party. She did not buy the 'Town'.

She will not get homes not owned by the Braselton family or the property owned by the town government.

Bought it in 1989, for $20 Million, sold it in 1993 for $1 million.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Neither did you!

She purchased most of the commercial property and some residential from a private party. She did not buy the 'Town'.




Bought it in 1989, for $20 Million, sold it in 1993 for $1 million.

Outside of private property did she or did she not own the town?

There are also several private owned communities in Florida, it is very common. They have complete infrastrutures with law enforcement and fire departments. There are many here in NC, in fact they are all over the country.

Oceanreaf is one of those communities in the Keys, complete with homes, real estate, stores, restaurants, police dept, fire dept, schools. It is completely privately owned.

These communities(towns) are all over the country. Seems you did not look very hard.

 

[Primus]

Outside of private property did she or did she not own the town?

There are also several private owned communities in Florida, it is very common. They have complete infrastrutures with law enforcement and fire departments. There are many here in NC, in fact they are all over the country.

Oceanreaf is one of those communities in the Keys, complete with homes, real estate, stores, restaurants, police dept, fire dept, schools. It is completely privately owned.

These communities(towns) are all over the country. Seems you did not look very hard.

Alright, I'll bite.

Are these "towns" incorporated? Do they have a governing body?

For someone who is so quick to paint someone has being deceitful (and then not having the intestinal fortitutde for admitting your statement was wrong) you obviously trying to make retirement communities into "towns". Just becuase it is a gathering of buildings owned by a private land developer doesn't make it a town. Doesn't that mean all of Residential Projects in a Urban area are seperate towns? Why not if they are owned by a private person and are a community(town) as you put it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Alright, I'll bite.

Are these "towns" incorporated? Do they have a governing body?

For someone who is so quick to paint someone has being deceitful (and then not having the intestinal fortitutde for admitting your statement was wrong) you obviously trying to make retirement communities into "towns". Just becuase it is a gathering of buildings owned by a private land developer doesn't make it a town. Doesn't that mean all of Residential Projects in a Urban area are seperate towns? Why not if they are owned by a private person and are a community(town) as you put it.

they usually always have HOAs, which can enact "covenants" which are ordinances specific to living in that association, an HOA is actually a corporation formed by the developer, by joining the corporation you become a shareholder, and agree to follow the covenants, you can also run for corporate officer positions, vote on corporate officers, etc etc etc usually the deed to your property requires you to join the corporation.... most neighborhoods these days have HOAs, but few are anything like oceanreaf.

however they are not a unit of government, since they're formed entirely by private contract, although they're still subject to state and local law.

also WW is incorrect about the nature of these communities, they do not have "their own law enforcement" some may have private security guards, but they're still just private guards with no authority over a private citizien, no authority to carry concealed firearms off duty, no authority to make warrantless arrests for misdemeanors, no authority to issue court summons, or anything else a cop can do.

only one state I'm aware of grants private guards LE authority. the other 49 states LE powers may be granted to private guards, but it rare, limited, and highly regulated. for instance railroad police.

these "exclusive private communities" are also generally very expensive and beyond the budget of the average american.

 

[WalkingWolf]

Nobody said anything about incorporation, there are many towns in the country recognized that are not incorporated. A town is a community, and these communities ARE towns with all of the things that incorporated towns have provided by private enterprise. And guess what they have lower crime, better roads, better security.

Many towns in the 18th and 19th century were not incorporated, and many were owned by the railroads, and mining industry. The claim was not incorporation, the claim was privately owned towns(communities). It just urinates off statists that private industry does it better than the buffoons in government.

 

[notalawyer]

Outside of private property did she or did she not own the town?

There are also several private owned communities in Florida, it is very common. They have complete infrastrutures with law enforcement and fire departments. There are many here in NC, in fact they are all over the country.

Oceanreaf is one of those communities in the Keys, complete with homes, real estate, stores, restaurants, police dept, fire dept, schools. It is completely privately owned.

These communities(towns) are all over the country. Seems you did not look very hard.

Outside of private property did she or did she not own the town?

No. She owned most commercial property and some residential property, but no Town (public) property.

You were wrong about Braselton, so just admit it so we can move on.

"Communities" does not equal Towns, Cities, Counties, etc. That is to say political subdivisions of the State.

Ocean Reef does not have a Police Department, they have private security. Just like Disney.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Nobody said anything about incorporation, there are many towns in the country recognized that are not incorporated. A town is a community, and these communities ARE towns with all of the things that incorporated towns have provided by private enterprise. And guess what they have lower crime, better roads, better security.

Many towns in the 18th and 19th century were not incorporated, and many were owned by the railroads, and mining industry. The claim was not incorporation, the claim was privately owned towns(communities). It just urinates off statists that private industry does it better than the buffoons in government.

but without incorporation a "town" has no legal authority. I live in an area that could be a "town" but it's not incorporated, all government services are provided by the county.

private industry does not categorically "do it better"

if you cite an area like 'oceanreef' then yes the private sector does things alot better then most cities, because they're a 100% private club with a very affluent customer base and since all land in that community is owned by a corporation the corporation can simply kick out anyone who doesn't "belong" and can gate out the entire area. in fact in some ways they're free to deal with people in that community in ways that police officers can't due to legal and constitutional restrictions. not having to regard civil rights is definitely a crime fighting bonus.

It's a complete apples and oranges comparison. most americans can't afford to live places like that.

I should note that as the forum's "resident statist" I have no problem with people living in private gated communities with private security guards and the like, doesn't bother me one bit. there's a golf club near my house like that, it's a gated and walled community, with a security guard you have to go through to enter, show your drivers license, justify your business, etc. it doesn't bother me in the least, if people want to live like that it's their choice...

 

[WalkingWolf]

No. She owned most commercial property and some residential property, but no Town (public) property.

You were wrong about Braselton, so just admit it so we can move on.

"Communities" does not equal Towns, Cities, Counties, etc. That is to say political subdivisions of the State.

Ocean Reef does not have a Police Department, they have private security. Just like Disney.

There you go she had substantial holdings in the town, she could not own gov or private property, but she owned the town. Communities DOES equal towns, cities, counties, what the He!! do you think a village or group of people living collectively IS?

 

[WalkingWolf]

but without incorporation a "town" has no legal authority. I live in an area that could be a "town" but it's not incorporated, all government services are provided by the county.

private industry does not categorically "do it better"

if you cite an area like 'oceanreef' then yes the private sector does things alot better then most cities, because they're a 100% private club with a very affluent customer base and since all land in that community is owned by a corporation the corporation can simply kick out anyone who doesn't "belong" and can gate out the entire area. in fact in some ways they're free to deal with people in that community in ways that police officers can't due to legal and constitutional restrictions. not having to regard civil rights is definitely a crime fighting bonus.

It's a complete apples and oranges comparison. most americans can't afford to live places like that.

Bovine Scatology, there are literally thousands of Oceanreafs across the country that do exactly what local government does, and they do it better. If they are doing the exact same job, it clearly is not apples to oranges. Though I do understand why these communities scare statists.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Bovine Scatology, there are literally thousands of Oceanreafs across the country that do exactly what local government does, and they do it better. If they are doing the exact same job, it clearly is not apples to oranges. Though I do understand why these communities scare statists.

there are thousands of gated communities, very little that's near on the scale of oceanreef. these communtities do not "Scare" anyone. most people would not own such a property and few can afford it.

most gated communities have a single gate with a pinpad combo. that's it.

there are some communities, there's a seniors retirement community, in Tacoma, that's gated and has exactly two minimum wage security guards. there's occasionally gated communities with guard shacks where you have to show ID like at a military base. these communities get nearly all their benefit from excluding the general population, someone government by nature cannot do. it's apples and oranges. it must be noted what do security guards in these communities do when someone does give them trouble? they call the police!

oceanreef, your own example, has their own substation of the sheriff's office and half a dozen deputies to do law enforcement tasks when their security guards encounter trouble.

if I make a private community, I can exclude anyone I want, for instance I can set it up where no one under age thirty can enter without being accompanied by an adult member. or say members and their invited guests only.

a city cannot just say "no one under thirty can go into downtown" or "city residents only in parkwood heights" or whatever. by nature common areas must be open to anyone. people who pay to live in a private community pay to have the general masses kept away from them. I have no problem with people living in such a place, don't pretend that everything else is equal and they're doing better then local government

 

[WalkingWolf]

there are thousands of gated communities, very little that's near on the scale of oceanreef. these communtities do not "Scare" anyone. most people would not own such a property and few can afford it.

most gated communities have a single gate with a pinpad combo. that's it.

there are some communities, there's a seniors retirement community, in Tacoma, that's gated and has exactly two minimum wage security guards. there's occasionally gated communities with guard shacks where you have to show ID like at a military base. these communities get nearly all their benefit from excluding the general population, someone government by nature cannot do. it's apples and oranges. it must be noted what do security guards in these communities do when someone does give them trouble? they call the police!

oceanreef, your own example, has their own substation of the sheriff's office and half a dozen deputies to do law enforcement tasks when their security guards encounter trouble.

Oceanreaf pays those deputies, as do many other communities, they also have their own Police/Security, that do a better job than Key West, Marathon with their own police departments. Whether they are gated or not does not change that they are communities. Not to forget the private universities that own substantial property and provide residents with those essential services.

Here in NC it is legal for private communities to have their own police that the administer and pay for. As long as the police meet the minimum requirements. Communities do not have to have a specific size to be communities privately owned. They only have to have people, a form of administration, and provide essential services. Carolina Trace even provides it's own water service, just like utilities in a incorporated town. They also have a form of government as many do here in NC. And NC is just one state, Florida and NC are not the only states with privately owned successful communities.

Hey how is the POS town of Detroit doing lately?

 

[Primus]

Oceanreaf pays those deputies, as do many other communities, they also have their own Police/Security, that do a better job than Key West, Marathon with their own police departments. Whether they are gated or not does not change that they are communities. Not to forget the private universities that own substantial property and provide residents with those essential services.

Here in NC it is legal for private communities to have their own police that the administer and pay for. As long as the police meet the minimum requirements. Communities do not have to have a specific size to be communities privately owned. They only have to have people, a form of administration, and provide essential services. Carolina Trace even provides it's own water service, just like utilities in a incorporated town. They also have a form of government as many do here in NC. And NC is just one state, Florida and NC are not the only states with privately owned successful communities.

Hey how is the POS town of Detroit doing lately?

Detroit is a City not a Town... so it would be POS City of Detroit...