Thigh Holster

[Legba]

imported post

This wasn't a paying security gig - it was a favor to the friend who owned the farm - so the "Barney Fife"-ism idea doesn't apply. We were young and nobody there had any formal training. We had been using the range and he asked me to watch the music gear as an afterthought - I wasn't working crowd control.

Might someone have done harm? Sure, as they might at any other time or place. Might my response have been inadequate if I had to muck about loading a gun? Yes, but that didn't happen and I wasn't hired to perform general security functions. I was mostly watching musicians getting drunk at a gig - nothing you need to hire Blackwater for. The concern was that someone might steal music stuff, and it didn't happen on my watch - a successful deployment, asI see it.

I'm glad to hear you had no difficulties at your gig, but it might have been otherwise, training or no. Someone else acting the fool has nothing to do with my training in any case. That problems were averted had to do with my situational awareness and anticipation of possible trouble. Everyone walked away unharmed, and I still don't see it as any "major issue" or case of dereliction.

-ljp

 

[DreQo]

imported post

I think the point he's trying to make is that if you're carrying correctly, no one should be able to snatch your gun away, or you should atleast be able to put up one hell of a fight to prevent it. From his point of view, youbasically said"well I knew someone might try to grab it so I figured I'd just unload it instead of being safe and keeping anyone from getting it." Worded that way, it sounds similiar to the "so I accidently walked through half of chicago airport with my gun in my fanny pack because I forgot it was there" incident. Those statements sound like they're coming from "goofs with guns" that don't have enough common sense or training to be allowed any where near a weapon.

With that being said, I personally understand where you're coming from, and the thought process that you said you had which led to you simply unloading your gun. I also agree that, in that specific situation, you correctly predicted that someone may try something stupid, and your previous actions prevented a potentially more dangerous situation.

I think what Mjolnir is looking for is for you to say "yeah, in retrospect, I should have made sure my weapon was secure, either by keeping it on my body or putting it somewhere more safe. Lesson learned." You KINDA hinted towards that idea when you said that you were young and untrained.



Anyway, back to the thigh holster conversation, I've been taking a closer look at the Safariland rigs, specifically those with the ALS system. This system has two security measures: a hood that holds the weapon in the holster by the back of the slide, which rotated forward to draw, and a latch that locks into the gun's ejection port. This latch is deactivated by a thumb switch during a normal drawing motion. Both of these devices are protected from the front by a hood protector. All of these features together seem to make it very difficult to draw the weapon from any other position than that of the person carrying.

 

[Legba]

imported post

To paraphrase former Defense Secretary Rumsfeld: you go to work with the tools you have. I had gone to the farm to do some casual target shooting before the weekend concert/party. I hadn't expected to get pressed into working the gig. I only had a tactical thigh holster and my piece. I suppose I could have tucked it, loaded, into my pants, Mexican-style, but the farm owner thought that the sight of the gun itself would have a deterrent effect and asked that I keep it visible. It was precisely because of my concern about being unable to assure retention that I decided to remove the magazine and keep it where I could get at it if needed, but not loaded so that some jerk would be able to cause harm if he got to it 1st.

So... a roundabout way of saying the same thing - I did what I could under the circumstances, and no training is going to make up for having the wrong gear or just being in a bad situation. I improvised, and I think I did OK. I went home at the end of the day, to borrow a line from Mjolnir, and so did everyone else.

If it's any consolation, I did learn something from the experience, without necessarily having done anything wrong. Please don't think I'm being smug or complacent. There just isn't a script that covers every contingency (and if there were, it wouldn't work).

-ljp

 

[DreQo]

imported post

You know, this conversation reminds me of something rather funny. The whole time I was in Iraq, anyone who was carrying a pistol (not me) had to keep it in condition 4and holstered while they were inside the wire. That never made any sense to me what so ever. The vast majority of the guys (and gals) all used the thigh rigs, since we were throwing our flaks on and off all the time.

Off that thought, has anyone thought of carrying a pistol on their belt, AND one on a thigh-rig directly below it?

 

[Legba]

imported post

No, but I am getting another pistol soon, so I could blow the dust off my thigh rig and try carrying both. That way, the next time some drunk jerk grabs for my thigh piece, I can have my kidney piece ready to respond - "problem" solved. ;-/

-ljp

 

[DreQo]

imported post

hahahahahaha :celebrate

 

[Mjolnir]

imported post

DreQo wrote:

You know, this conversation reminds me of something rather funny. The whole time I was in Iraq, anyone who was carrying a pistol (not me) had to keep it in condition 4and holstered while they were inside the wire. That never made any sense to me what so ever. The vast majority of the guys (and gals) all used the thigh rigs, since we were throwing our flaks on and off all the time.

Off that thought, has anyone thought of carrying a pistol on their belt, AND one on a thigh-rig directly below it?

All the different time I was over in the box we all carried our 92FS's with a round in the chamber and safety off. I also carried a GAU-5A on ocassion but my duty weapon was the 92. It actually spent quite a bit of time out of the holster & yes the drop rig did get to be a pain in the ass, but I never went anywhere without a sidearm & the holster was always on my DCU belt and not the LBE/Force Vest.

Had a troop shoot a TCN who broke into the port a jon while she was taking a dump trying to get to her cuz she was black and had a muslem name.

 

[Mjolnir]

imported post

Legba wrote:

and no training is going to make up for having the wrong gear or just being in a bad situation.

Actually quality training can make up for HUGE differences in having the wrong gear and being in a bad situation. Gear does not make an operator, the operator's skils are just enhanced with the correct gear.

But till ya attend formal training ya could have a hard time understand this.

 

[DreQo]

imported post

All the different time I was over in the box we all carried our 92FS's with a round in the chamber and safety off. I also carried a GAU-5A on ocassion but my duty weapon was the 92. It actually spent quite a bit of time out of the holster & yes the drop rig did get to be a pain in the ass, but I never went anywhere without a sidearm & the holster was always on my DCU belt and not the LBE/Force Vest.

Had a troop shoot a TCN who broke into the port a jon while she was taking a dump trying to get to her cuz she was black and had a muslem name.

Yeah, lol see I knew it was stupid. That's the air wing for you. The worst I ever did to a TCN was butt-stroke one when he tried to pass check-point w/o ID. They were absolutely retarded about when and where we could load and fire our weapons. We weren't even allowed to shoot the wild, sometimes rabid, wadii dogs that would run at us in packs UNLESS we had already received bodily harm and were in immediate threat of loss of life or limb. I'm sorry, if I have the opportunity, I'm gonna shot a CHARGING dog BEFORE it bites me, thank you very much. Luckily I never had that issue..they seemed to be rather easily deterred with a surefire.

 

[Legba]

imported post

Mjolnir wrote:

Legba wrote:

and no training is going to make up for having the wrong gear or just being in a bad situation.

Actually quality training can make up for HUGE differences in having the wrong gear and being in a bad situation. Gear does not make an operator, the operator's skils are just enhanced with the correct gear.

But till ya attend formal training ya could have a hard time understand this.

Well, I'm apparently not an "operator" - whatever that means - but my understanding has never proved inadequate before. I made it through quantum mechanics OK. Charge machine gun bunkers with pointed sticks all you like. I recuse myself from the thread any further.

-ljp