Metalhead47
Regular Member
So Dave, were the founding fathers, who said just the same sort of things against govt as svg, also anarchists?
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Thompson guilty of excessive force, and
- Thread starter hermannr
- Start date
So Dave, were the founding fathers, who said just the same sort of things against govt as svg, also anarchists?
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Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
No, you are flat out wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy
You can repeat your mean spirited, ignorant, B.S., lies all you want... that will not turn them into the truth.
Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
Few thinking people agree with any party platform 100%. To say "libertarians believe this..." overgeneralizes it I think. It's like says "democrats want to ban guns" (not all do, some open 2A advocates). A party system is inevitable, you just have to go along with the party that most closely reflects your own personal values. It will not be 100% agreement. Then stay in close contact with your elected representatives and remind them of what your conflicting values are.
I'd be careful with the "classical liberal" line too. Like it or not, that word has been usurped and perverted, and most people won't understand what you mean when you use it. Like, if you go around telling people you're gay, they're not going to think "happy"...
1) If I bother to tell someone that I'm a Classical Liberal, I'm usually willing to explain what it means. I assume no one I encounter actually knows American political history or philosophy. That's sad, but almost universally the case.
2) http://www.lp.org/platform Section 3.4 "Open migration" is part of the Libertarian parties official, published platform. So yes, I can judge the party based on their published goals. I can judge tbe modern libertarian party movement based on that, just not individual libertarians.
I can choose not to be a libertarian based on the fact I disagree with some of their stated goals, and also based on the fact I'm not actually a libertarian.
Come on, give me some credit for that self edit. You go boy! Can't say I don't at least try to be polite, sometimes, to some degree
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
No lies here and if you noticed there are verifiable links and information for the public, seems you are playing the part of hiding your head in the sand, seems you are more upset then SVG is about the issue, you are what you are.
Metalhead47
Regular Member
Still waiting for you to explain how someone who (however grudgingly) acknowledges the need for some form of gov't & authority, can possibly be of an ideology that adamantly rejects all gov't and authority?
Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
I find your bully tactics offensive.
I find your willful ignorance amusing (and pathetic). Note: I am not calling YOU pathetic. I am just calling some of your character traits, or attributes, pathetic. See, words and definitions do matter.
And none of this is any sweat off my back. So have an absolutely fantastic weekend, BigDave. BTW if you get bored, go read some John Locke, Adam Smith, Nozick, De Tocqueville, etc. You can choose to not wallow in your ignorance.
In fact, now that you are aware of how woefully uneducated you are on this topic, one could argue you have a duty to rectify that flaw. Here's a free book to get you started, written by someone who would say that you have a moral obligation to rectify your ignorance http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicomachaen.html
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BigDave
Opt-Out Members
That's it, change the definition of what I posted to make it appear to be ALL, this is typical maneuver by some on internet forums.
Definition of ANARCHIST
1: a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2: a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy; especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order
He has clearly stated several times about loosing his drivers license and then complain about freedom of travel and then loosing business license after being sued by the Department of Revenue and then complain about freedom to provide a service. While promoting less government for more poor businessmen to take advantage of others to include those that are less fortunate.
Everything there is an issue comes up, it is the governments fault because he cannot play by the rules.
If there is offending laws then there are ways to address those issues as I have been in contact with my Local, State and Federal Legislatures and well he can as well or you for that matter.
But for one just to pick and choose what laws they want to obey or not to, benefits from those he likes while not others that support others is hypocritical to say the least, or oh wait, what laws does he support?
Metalhead47
Regular Member
Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave. To use your own quote,
Please allow me to highlight the key word in that definition you keep conveniently ignoring:
See it now? SVG does not rebel against ANY authority, only that which he see as contrary to the US Constitution. Authority actually granted by the Constitution is legitimate. SVG has noted in several posts that even "police" have a legitimate role in society in more of a "peace officer" role. By your own definition, an anarchist rejects ANY, and all, authority.
As far as the rest of your post, well, it's plainly obvious you have a personal grudge against him based on your interpretation of his behavior, yet you attack his ideals.
MadHatter66
Regular Member
Really?
Wow,this really makes OC look like crap. You know when people hear about OC, this is where they come. When there is an article in the paper about carry related issues, this is where reporters come to find info and even QUOTE things they find on here. When some cops want info, they come here (believe it or not but they do). Politicians come here to these forums to see what the interest is right now. People come to OCDO to get info, because this is a great place to get it from and there is a great group of people that is willing to do research and post laws and findings. When someone makes a statement on here, there is almost always something to back it up, which is why cops come here too.
This constant squabbling completely detracts from the message that we are trying to send. We want people to take us seriously, want people to take out message seriously but when they come to the forums and see people calling each other anarchists and pigs there is no way to take it seriously. Now, more than ever, we need to be cohesive as a group. There is a group out there (cease fire WA) that wants to strip us of the right to OC, and we are still calling each other names, like we did back in 2nd grade on a playground... The only difference here is out vocabulary is bigger. When no one takes the OC movement seriously anymore we will lose everything that we have worked so hard for... How many hours have gone into letter writing, phone calls, research, organizing people/picnics? How many people have been harassed, arrested or detained by the police in the past few years for this cause? How much money has come out of members pockets for the cause? It would seem that there are people willing to throw all that time and effort away just to call someone a name because they do not agree with the words they say. I may not agree with someone, and when I don't I just click back and move on instead of clicking reply and unleashing my torrent on them.
Many people will say that this is an individual movement, with very little organization... That might be true, but there is still a group here, and the group reputation needs to be thought of as well.
Right now, there is no choice to come together, unless you want your rights to be taken away. "United we stand, divided we fall" should ring true here and when people come here to take us seriously and get info and find this, they close the page, make their decision and move on without ever coming back... I haven't been active in OCDO for a while and coming back to being active again I see there is still the same behavior as before, which is why I took a break in the first place.:banghead:
If all else fails...
Wow,this really makes OC look like crap. You know when people hear about OC, this is where they come. When there is an article in the paper about carry related issues, this is where reporters come to find info and even QUOTE things they find on here. When some cops want info, they come here (believe it or not but they do). Politicians come here to these forums to see what the interest is right now. People come to OCDO to get info, because this is a great place to get it from and there is a great group of people that is willing to do research and post laws and findings. When someone makes a statement on here, there is almost always something to back it up, which is why cops come here too.
This constant squabbling completely detracts from the message that we are trying to send. We want people to take us seriously, want people to take out message seriously but when they come to the forums and see people calling each other anarchists and pigs there is no way to take it seriously. Now, more than ever, we need to be cohesive as a group. There is a group out there (cease fire WA) that wants to strip us of the right to OC, and we are still calling each other names, like we did back in 2nd grade on a playground... The only difference here is out vocabulary is bigger. When no one takes the OC movement seriously anymore we will lose everything that we have worked so hard for... How many hours have gone into letter writing, phone calls, research, organizing people/picnics? How many people have been harassed, arrested or detained by the police in the past few years for this cause? How much money has come out of members pockets for the cause? It would seem that there are people willing to throw all that time and effort away just to call someone a name because they do not agree with the words they say. I may not agree with someone, and when I don't I just click back and move on instead of clicking reply and unleashing my torrent on them.
Many people will say that this is an individual movement, with very little organization... That might be true, but there is still a group here, and the group reputation needs to be thought of as well.
Right now, there is no choice to come together, unless you want your rights to be taken away. "United we stand, divided we fall" should ring true here and when people come here to take us seriously and get info and find this, they close the page, make their decision and move on without ever coming back... I haven't been active in OCDO for a while and coming back to being active again I see there is still the same behavior as before, which is why I took a break in the first place.:banghead:
If all else fails...
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Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
IMHO Dave didn't attack SVG's ideals. Rather Big 'Ol Dave intentionally miss-characterized SVGs ideals, in an attempt to ridicule and marginalize SVG (in front of, and to the OC community).
Personally I'd call that a personal attack
Feeling proud Big 'Ol Dave?
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Dave_pro2a
Regular Member
If all else fails...
Trigger Dr has the only ToS violation on this thread imho. http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...ve-force-and&p=1641539&viewfull=1#post1641539 Swearing is not allowed on most forums, thus the filter.
And it might be a good idea to explain the IGNORE feature rather than the "OMG I'm a little girl and can't take the heat so I'll narc you off to the teacher" button. Just my opinion
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Metalhead47
Regular Member
BigDave
Opt-Out Members
Actions Speak Louder then Words but clearly you do not understand that.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Ajetpilot is a wise man.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Highlighted part is an outright lie. I was never sued by the Department of Revenue. The rest of the paragraph is so full of false it's laughable. And shows your true "fascist" colors. Again you have to go after the person to argue his points are wrong instead of articulating a thoughtful reasonable response.
I can say..People are charged with assault when they beat old ladies with a crow bar. Does this mean you beat an old lady with a crow bar to get your assault charge Dave?
"Resort is had to ridicule when reason is against us."---Jefferson
"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength."--Eric Hoffer
Oh yea so if they outlawed guns tomorrow you turning yours in?
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Metal and Dave well articulated posts and thanks for the defense. It shows you folks pay actual attention to the substance of my posts even when you disagree with me and have accurately portrayed me better than I can myself. Thank you.
I think I am more with you Dave pro 2a on the classical liberalism, and with Metal that once in power Libertarian would slowly work toward the tyranny too. I would like to see them oust one of the in power folks.
I think I am more with you Dave pro 2a on the classical liberalism, and with Metal that once in power Libertarian would slowly work toward the tyranny too. I would like to see them oust one of the in power folks.
gogodawgs
Campaign Veteran
"Ever since I arrived to a state of manhood, I have felt a sincere passion for liberty. The history of nations doomed to perpetual slavery, in consequence of yielding up to tyrants their natural born liberties, I read with a sort of philosophical horror; so that the first systematical and bloody attempt at Lexington, to enslave America, thoroughly electrified my mind, and fully determined me to take part with my country." ~Ethan Allen
hermannr
Regular Member
Guys, pease! especially you BigDave. SVG is not an anarchist...if you want to know what a real anarchist is, not a dictionary definition, study your WA state and BC history, late 1800's early 1900's...there were some real anarchist's about then. There is even a mountain only a few miles north of here that is named "Anarchist Mountain"
I would also like to address immigration...as a person born in another country, and having been a US citizen for 40+ years...OK?
The US immigration policy WAS "if you wish to come and contribute, come" Unnecessary then, but so today we need to add..."and don't expect to try suck on the government teet"
It brings to mind the hottest new company here in the US now. It is an online company that sells unsold cruise liner cabins...developed by a young man who came from Europe, went to Stanford U, came up with his idea here in the US (while at school), implimented his idea (here in the US), hired US citizens to work for him....and now...Immigration says he is too educated to be allowed to stay in the US and run his company....so he has to run his company from Canada...how long before he just gives up and moves his company, and the resulting jobs, out of the US????
That kind of stuff has to stop!!!!!
I would also like to address immigration...as a person born in another country, and having been a US citizen for 40+ years...OK?
The US immigration policy WAS "if you wish to come and contribute, come" Unnecessary then, but so today we need to add..."and don't expect to try suck on the government teet"
It brings to mind the hottest new company here in the US now. It is an online company that sells unsold cruise liner cabins...developed by a young man who came from Europe, went to Stanford U, came up with his idea here in the US (while at school), implimented his idea (here in the US), hired US citizens to work for him....and now...Immigration says he is too educated to be allowed to stay in the US and run his company....so he has to run his company from Canada...how long before he just gives up and moves his company, and the resulting jobs, out of the US????
That kind of stuff has to stop!!!!!
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WCrawford
Regular Member
Wow,this really makes OC look like crap. You know when people hear about OC, this is where they come. When there is an article in the paper about carry related issues, this is where reporters come to find info and even QUOTE things they find on here. When some cops want info, they come here (believe it or not but they do). Politicians come here to these forums to see what the interest is right now. People come to OCDO to get info, because this is a great place to get it from and there is a great group of people that is willing to do research and post laws and findings. When someone makes a statement on here, there is almost always something to back it up, which is why cops come here too.
This constant squabbling completely detracts from the message that we are trying to send. We want people to take us seriously, want people to take out message seriously but when they come to the forums and see people calling each other anarchists and pigs there is no way to take it seriously. Now, more than ever, we need to be cohesive as a group. There is a group out there (cease fire WA) that wants to strip us of the right to OC, and we are still calling each other names, like we did back in 2nd grade on a playground... The only difference here is out vocabulary is bigger. When no one takes the OC movement seriously anymore we will lose everything that we have worked so hard for... How many hours have gone into letter writing, phone calls, research, organizing people/picnics? How many people have been harassed, arrested or detained by the police in the past few years for this cause? How much money has come out of members pockets for the cause? It would seem that there are people willing to throw all that time and effort away just to call someone a name because they do not agree with the words they say. I may not agree with someone, and when I don't I just click back and move on instead of clicking reply and unleashing my torrent on them.
Many people will say that this is an individual movement, with very little organization... That might be true, but there is still a group here, and the group reputation needs to be thought of as well.
Right now, there is no choice to come together, unless you want your rights to be taken away. "United we stand, divided we fall" should ring true here and when people come here to take us seriously and get info and find this, they close the page, make their decision and move on without ever coming back... I haven't been active in OCDO for a while and coming back to being active again I see there is still the same behavior as before, which is why I took a break in the first place.:banghead:
If all else fails...
I disagree with you, this is the types of discussion that freedom loving men and women should be having. I doubt that this one has any more name calling than the discussions our founding fathers had.
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Metalhead47
Regular Member
Durn right. Those guys drank constantly.
Although.....
Name calling back then could also get you pistols at ten paces... just ask A. Hamilton.
What we DO have here, just like they had then, is a bunch of very smart chaps with even stronger opinions who enjoy arguing. These little off-topic segues are inevitable. I, for one, find them eminently enlightening, entertaining, occasionally frustrating... and just once in a while an epic
