Thoughts on VCDL emails as of late

[Wooley]

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I must say I'm somewhat confused by parts one and two of these emails and hopefully there will be something useful I/we can take from it eventually. That said, so far it sounds like chest thumping.
I'm not interested in how great so and so did this or how well a situation was responded to.

I want to hear about what went wrong. Where did it come apart? Sure, "this worked for me" stories are good to put in your toolbox, but breaking down a bad situation and figuring out why it went bad makes us better.

So far all I've read about are wins.

This is practice. Teams practice. But they don't hit the locker room and talk about their great practice. They talk about where there went wrong, how they could improve, new ideas for next time, and how they can push their limits once they've mastered something.

Here's hoping that in the next edition the tape measure gets put away and I get to read something useful.

*EDIT added*
By the way, this is in no way an attack on the author of the emails or anyone involved. It sounds as though the people involved in the training and those attending it are giving and getting a good product. It sounds too like they're solid, seasoned gunners. My complaint is that from someone with their fecal matter coagulated, I expect more analyzation and breakdown with less narrative.

 

[TFred]

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Did you not actually read the e-mails you are complaining about? Everyone who did is right now scratching their head wondering what in the world you are talking about.

The author was quite clear that he had experienced a variety of results, and at the end of the last one, he explicitly declared that the next chapter would be quite different than the first two.

For those interested in reading these, go here and look for the entries about Advanced Training.

I found them very interesting. The question I had was whether any of the post-incident debrief or analysis included any thoughts from a legal perspective. Such as, did the participants act in a manner that would be legally sanctioned, or expose themselves to any civil liability, etc.

TFred

 

[Wooley]

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Ok, what was the point of the first two then?

I said I'm hoping to see something better.

 

[TFred]

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Wooley wrote:

Ok, what was the point of the first two then?

I said I'm hoping to see something better.

Well, I'm not PVC, but I imagine he is writing about them all, as he gets the time to do so.

TFred

 

[Wooley]

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I percieve the first two as simple bragging. There are guys from this board who are at this minute doing a live fire raid on a mock village via helo, none of them will be here bragging about the experience.

 

[2a4all]

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Wooley wrote:

Ok, what was the point of the first two then?

I said I'm hoping to see something better.

I think the "point" of the 1st two is simply a narrative from one participant's perspective. In his summary of the class, which was put out weeks ago, PVC said that he'd be giving a detailed account of each of these training exercises. Those who are following this sequence are expecting narratives of less successful events.

I also would like to see some followup analysis of the reactions from the perspectives of the observers (intructors),the unarmed participants and the bad guys. Hopefully, it would include such things as where all the rounds fired went as well as tactical and legal issues.

Perhaps when he's done with his individual narratives,PVC might post themto this forum for discussion?

 

[skidmark]

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This is not a forum about tactics and training, so I'm wondering why the discussion here as opposed to somewhere else.

That being said, I was able to pick out several things that did not go as well as could/should have in the first two installments. For one thing, the author of the pieces has twice demonstrated hestitation in executing his plan of action. Fortunately he has prevaled despite that "flaw". And I'll be the first to say that since I was not there and did not participate in the scenario I have absolutely no idea how I would have performed.

That being said, if the OP is looking for info on what went wrong then he would be well served to read carefully and then contact the writer to discuss thoughts/opinions/feelings.

stay safe.

 

[peter nap]

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skidmark wrote:

This is not a forum about tactics and training, so I'm wondering why the discussion here as opposed to somewhere else.

I agree Skid.
I also don't understand why the OP is upset about it.

I skimmed the alerts and when I realized they weren't alerts, I filed them in the same folder with the Viagra ads, the King of Siam's plan to make me rich and the invitations by hot honey's from Russia.

Why not move this to the General Discussion Area (Comedy Central) and everyone can discuss tactics.:uhoh:

 

[230therapy]

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He is promoting training by showing the benefits and providing examples of what is involved.

I don't see the number of CCW permit holders and gun owners reflected in self-defense gun courses. At best, I'd say less than 5% of gun owners attend some sort of tactical training annually. Repeat business is common; many of the courses I managed had the same people in them.

CCW training (isn't) and the NRA courses are very, very basic. They're good first steps. However, anyone who OC's should have attend at least two courses a year, where each course is two full days. This also needs to be repeated at least every other year, though I do recommend changing instructors. Maintenance drills should be performed monthly, with large doses of dry fire and manipulation drills at home. Anyone who carries should also learn retention techniques. Training is a part of responsible carry.

Training is generally fun. Unfortunately, this stuff is WORK and it can get boring. I alleviate boredom during my home drills by doing them while watching TV. It goes faster that way.

 

[peter nap]

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230therapy wrote:

He is promoting training by showing the benefits and providing examples of what is involved.

I don't see the number of CCW permit holders and gun owners reflected in self-defense gun courses. At best, I'd say less than 5% of gun owners attend some sort of tactical training annually. Repeat business is common; many of the courses I managed had the same people in them.

CCW training (isn't) and the NRA courses are very, very basic. They're good first steps. However, anyone who OC's should have attend at least two courses a year, where each course is two full days. This also needs to be repeated at least every other year, though I do recommend changing instructors. Maintenance drills should be performed monthly, with large doses of dry fire and manipulation drills at home. Anyone who carries should also learn retention techniques. Training is a part of responsible carry.

Training is generally fun. Unfortunately, this stuff is WORK and it can get boring. I alleviate boredom during my home drills by doing them while watching TV. It goes faster that way.

I think you're a little generous with the 5%. I'd be shocked if it was 1% unless talk counts.

I also think you're light on the drills and classes. Every year in at least one new area and a refresher in an old one and weekly live fire drills.

That's my opinion but everyone doesn't have a private range at their disposal or be able to shoot anywhere they please at home.

I think the question was..."Why was it in the in the alerts"? You can call it what you want, it's spam.

Also...why is it being discussed here?

(BTW, I know the answer. I was just passing the question on:lol

 

[Wooley]

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I'm not upset guys. I'm just looking for something I can take away from these...

And why did I put it here? Because us VA types are familiar with the VCDL alerts and I knew it would get more attention here. Sorry if I offended.

I enjoy reading PVC's work, and this fell short from the higher level I've come to expect. Just my opinion gents, and I'm just a dude.

 

[peter nap]

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Wooley wrote:

And why did I put it here? Because us VA types are familiar with the VCDL alerts and I knew it would get more attention here. Sorry if I offended.

You didn't

I enjoy reading PVC's work, and this fell short from the higher level I've come to expect.

It did and really wasn't Alert material IMO...but Philip is human and can't be magic all the time.