Thousand Foot Rule?

[SouthernBoy]

Yea, a little tongue in cheek when I italicized "state issued license"... I would hope to think that a LEO stop "just passing by" the school with no intention to go onto the property would end in a warning especially when one has CHP. Of course the LEO could easily arrest you, haul you to jail and call the federal attorney to tell him they have a criminal for them...

Do keep in mind that you do not have to have your CHP with you when carrying openly within the 1000' radius. You only need to have been issued the aforementioned "license to possess" (which of course in Virginia, there is no such thing) but it appears a CHP suffices for said license (???).

As others have noted, this federal law causes so much confusion that it is proof that the people who write this nonsense know little about the subject matter at hand, which causes even more confusion. And it unfortunately leaves the door open wide for disparities in interpretation that could be used for all sorts of evil doings.

 

[peter nap]

Of course the LEO could easily arrest you, haul you to jail and call the federal attorney to tell him they have a criminal for them...

Really, when was the last time that happened?

I think death by the Bogey Man is more likely.
Did anyone ever hear the story about the boy who went fishing and mistakenly used baby rattlesnakes instead of worms?

 

[nuc65]

1) Are you engaging in interstate commerce while carrying within 1000' of a school then this law doesn't apply to you.

2) If the state you are in is an OC state (wherein the state has no law against OC) then you are already licensed de-facto to carry as long as you are not a prohibited person.

At least two reasons to not worry about the law, not only that I imagine there are other bogeymen that will get you especially if you are so worried that you have to GPS 1000' imaginary line to pretend to be safe. The 1000' will be at the edge of the property on the federal (official guberment GIS system) GPS maps to the closest point of approach to where you are. Private property cannot yet be encroached in this manner.

 

[WalkingWolf]

SCOTUS refused to hear a case where a CA court "it is not the job of the local police to enforce the federal drug laws."

IMO by SCOTUS rulings it is not the job of local and states to enforce federal laws, by the above ruling, and even when the state passes laws mimicking the federal laws as in the case of Arizona immigration laws. It is my opinion that a local police officer cannot arrest solely for a federal law. And this has been the case so far of the only prosecution of GFSZA violations. The federal government would have to put in place huge amounts of federal agents to enforce it.

NC invokes federal laws in firearm statutes, but considering the Arizona immigration decision state police cannot use it to enforce federal law. It even brings into question the state "license to do so" since that would be usurping federal authority.

 

[2a4all]

Yea, a little tongue in cheek when I italicized "state issued license"... I would hope to think that a LEO stop "just passing by" the school with no intention to go onto the property would end in a warning especially when one has CHP. Of course the LEO could easily arrest you, haul you to jail and call the federal attorney to tell him they have a criminal for them...

I think that non-federal LEOs must be sworn federally before they can enforce this law. AFIK, most are not.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I think that non-federal LEOs must be sworn federally before they can enforce this law. AFIK, most are not.

The problem is they(US Marshals) hand out Deputy Marshal commissions like candy. These are usually for task forces, but it used to be any LEO could get one upon request. The officer did have to meet the federal standards though at that time, who know now. AFIK they are not being used for GFSZA YET.

 

[TFred]

1) Are you engaging in interstate commerce while carrying within 1000' of a school then this law doesn't apply to you.

2) If the state you are in is an OC state (wherein the state has no law against OC) then you are already licensed de-facto to carry as long as you are not a prohibited person.

At least two reasons to not worry about the law, not only that I imagine there are other bogeymen that will get you especially if you are so worried that you have to GPS 1000' imaginary line to pretend to be safe. The 1000' will be at the edge of the property on the federal (official guberment GIS system) GPS maps to the closest point of approach to where you are. Private property cannot yet be encroached in this manner.

I don't think your #2 works because they require a background check:

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;​

TFred

 

[MAC702]

1) Are you engaging in interstate commerce while carrying within 1000' of a school then this law doesn't apply to you...

Well, the lack of enforcement of the law notwithstanding, this is a completely false statement.

The text of the law defines a firearm has having been a product of interstate commerce and subject to this law, including a Ruger P89 made in Prescott, AZ, and carried by a AZ resident in downtown Prescott, AZ.

Yes, the law is still unconstitutional and will be thrown out the moment it hits an impartial judge. BUT, technically, it absolutely claims application to people not personally engaging in interstate commerce at the time.

We ignore this "law" completely. But we do recognize what it says.

 

[2a4all]

1) Are you engaging in interstate commerce while carrying within 1000' of a school then this law doesn't apply to you.

2) If the state you are in is an OC state (wherein the state has no law against OC) then you are already licensed de-facto to carry as long as you are not a prohibited person.

At least two reasons to not worry about the law, not only that I imagine there are other bogeymen that will get you especially if you are so worried that you have to GPS 1000' imaginary line to pretend to be safe. The 1000' will be at the edge of the property on the federal (official guberment GIS system) GPS maps to the closest point of approach to where you are. Private property cannot yet be encroached in this manner.

I don't think your #2 works because they require a background check:

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;​

TFred

The feds only require a background check if your state requires one to obtain the license. If there is a "defacto" license, a corresponding background check to grant said license would be moot.

 

[USNA69]

Catch-22

I looked through all the posts in this thread and did not see a mention of my following comment ... but I could have missed it.

While the Feds say that we cannot carry within 1000 feet of school property, the Commonwealth of Virginia in the Code of Virginia, § 18.2-308.1. "Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited" lays out the conditions under which we may carry ON school property.

Kinda makes your head spin. :banghead:

 

[nuc65]

I don't think your #2 works because they require a background check:

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;​

TFred

A CHP is still not a license to carry, in VA a CHP is a permit that allows forgiveness if you carry concealed.

 

[jmlefler]

IANAL

From my understanding, the Federal GFSZ statute relies on each States' definition of a 'school' and 'school property'. In Michigan, 'school property' also includes any vehicle used to transport students to and from a school sanctioned activity; think all sporting events, field trips and yes, school buses themselves.

So, a zealous prosecutor could prosecute anyone (sans CPL) 'in possession' within 1000' of a school bus... fine, at least they're big and yellow. Personally, I have transported students to tennis events in a school owned Ford Expedition - no one would know that 'school property' was sitting right behind them at a stop light.

Just ridiculous...

Carry on

The definition is:

Definitions found here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

Your property is exempt:



Found here: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922

 

[SouthernBoy]

IANAL

From my understanding, the Federal GFSZ statute relies on each States' definition of a 'school' and 'school property'. In Michigan, 'school property' also includes any vehicle used to transport students to and from a school sanctioned activity; think all sporting events, field trips and yes, school buses themselves.

So, a zealous prosecutor could prosecute anyone (sans CPL) 'in possession' within 1000' of a school bus... fine, at least they're big and yellow. Personally, I have transported students to tennis events in a school owned Ford Expedition - no one would know that 'school property' was sitting right behind them at a stop light.

Just ridiculous...

Carry on

So if you're sitting in traffic, firearm in your cup holder, and a school bus just happens to come up on your side, you are now in violation of state law? That means that they could just drive school buses around and as they get to within 1000' of cars, search them all under the pretense of having firearms present. Whoa, the only way you could be safe would be not to carry at all. [me thinks this might be just what they want]

 

[grylnsmn]

IANAL

From my understanding, the Federal GFSZ statute relies on each States' definition of a 'school' and 'school property'. In Michigan, 'school property' also includes any vehicle used to transport students to and from a school sanctioned activity; think all sporting events, field trips and yes, school buses themselves.

So, a zealous prosecutor could prosecute anyone (sans CPL) 'in possession' within 1000' of a school bus... fine, at least they're big and yellow. Personally, I have transported students to tennis events in a school owned Ford Expedition - no one would know that 'school property' was sitting right behind them at a stop light.

Just ridiculous...

Carry on

Your understanding would be incorrect.

From 18 USC 921 (a)(25) and (26):

(25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.

(26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.

18 USC 922(q)(2) only applies inside a "school zone" as defined above:

(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.

As such, it only applies in or on the grounds of a school (and within 1000 feet of the grounds), not in or on the property (such as a school bus), nor within 1000 feet of that property.