Transport & Officer Notify?

[viperar15]

imported post

Ok, say you went somewhere carrying, of course if you encounter an LEO on CCing, you have to notify the leo that you have a cpl and are carrying.

What if you had your pistol locked away in the trunk, seperated from ammo, etc and you were pulled over? Do we still have to notify the leo that we have a cpl and that we are not carrying, but there is still a pistol in the trunk of the car?

just something i was thinking of on my way home tonight (err... this morning).

 

[dougwg]

imported post

From what I understand is that if you are operating under a CPL (loaded gun anywhere inside the vehicle) you MUST disclose.

It doesn't matter if the gun is in the trunk, glove box, your pocket or on your hip.
If it's loaded youmusthave a CPL and you would be operating under that CPL and you must disclose.

If pulled over by LEO for any reason or stopped in any official manner even if you are riding in the back seat of a car AND you have a loaded pistol, you must disclose.

DO NOT YELL "I HAVE A GUN"

Nicely state that you're a CPL holder. Most likely the LEO will then ask if you are in-fact carrying at that time. Tell him. Most likely he/she (LEO) will just say "Ok, leave it there". That should be the end ofit unless you were driving like a total moron or drag racing or something like that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the gun is in "transportation mode" (unloaded,encased,unaccessible) there is no obligation to disclose.

If you have a CPL, your instructor should have went over ALL of this with you already.


IANAL

 

[viperar15]

imported post

yup, i understood the loaded part. it was the unloaded part that i was mainly questioning.

thanks doug. that was a lot of information that day. thats why all the information and the firearms law book, etc all still sit on my table to reference back to. but i wasn't about to do that at 2am. forum was quicker ;-)

 

[dougwg]

imported post

One other thing...

If the pistol is not fully in "transport mode" it will be considered carried by you even if it's unloaded.

Example: If you have a gun in the glove box, unloaded it's considered concealed and you must have a CPL and you would need to disclose.

I think it would be a gray area if it was LOCKED in the glove box and unloaded, so in this case I would recommend disclosure.

If there is ANY QUESTION in your mind, stay safe and disclose. I believe you have nothing to lose if you disclose while acting in a "gray area" if you're legal in every other way.

These comments are for a CPL holder only!

If you do not have a CPL I suggest you transport the right way and stay well clear of the gray area's. IE encased, unloaded and inaccessible.

 

[SQLtables]

imported post

dougwg wrote:

From what I understand is that if you are operating under a CPL (loaded gun anywhere inside the vehicle) you MUST disclose.

It doesn't matter if the gun is in the trunk, glove box, your pocket or on your hip.
If it's loaded youmusthave a CPL and you would be operating under that CPL and you must disclose.

If pulled over by LEO for any reason or stopped in any official manner even if you are riding in the back seat of a car AND you have a loaded pistol, you must disclose.

DO NOT YELL "I HAVE A GUN"

Nicely state that you're a CPL holder. Most likely the LEO will then ask if you are in-fact carrying at that time. Tell him. Most likely he/she (LEO) will just say "Ok, leave it there". That should be the end ofit unless you were driving like a total moron or drag racing or something like that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the gun is in "transportation mode" (unloaded,encased,unaccessible) there is no obligation to disclose.

If you have a CPL, your instructor should have went over ALL of this with you already.


IANAL

Doug,

Can I ask where you got the idea that you should disclose even if you're a passenger? I've always felt that if I'm a passenger, then I'm not really being "stopped" by the LEO if the vehicle gets pulled over. That is, until they address me by asking for ID or whatnot. I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering if you have any official source for this, or if it's just an opinion. Disclosing is definitely the safe choice.

Also, I don't see that you mentioned it, but even if you have a firearm in "transport mode", if the officer asks if there are any weapons, etc in the car, I highly suggest letting the officer know about the ones locked in the trunk.

 

[SpringerXDacp]

imported post

SQLtables wrote:

dougwg wrote:

From what I understand is that if you are operating under a CPL (loaded gun anywhere inside the vehicle) you MUST disclose.

It doesn't matter if the gun is in the trunk, glove box, your pocket or on your hip.
If it's loaded youmusthave a CPL and you would be operating under that CPL and you must disclose.

If pulled over by LEO for any reason or stopped in any official manner even if you are riding in the back seat of a car AND you have a loaded pistol, you must disclose.

DO NOT YELL "I HAVE A GUN"

Nicely state that you're a CPL holder. Most likely the LEO will then ask if you are in-fact carrying at that time. Tell him. Most likely he/she (LEO) will just say "Ok, leave it there". That should be the end ofit unless you were driving like a total moron or drag racing or something like that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the gun is in "transportation mode" (unloaded,encased,unaccessible) there is no obligation to disclose.

If you have a CPL, your instructor should have went over ALL of this with you already.


IANAL

Doug,

Can I ask where you got the idea that you should disclose even if you're a passenger? I've always felt that if I'm a passenger, then I'm not really being "stopped" by the LEO if the vehicle gets pulled over. That is, until they address me by asking for ID or whatnot. I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering if you have any official source for this, or if it's just an opinion. Disclosing is definitely the safe choice.

Also, I don't see that you mentioned it, but even if you have a firearm in "transport mode", if the officer asks if there are any weapons, etc in the car, I highly suggest letting the officer know about the ones locked in the trunk.

This is MCRGO's take on this:





Q:
If I am a Passenger in my wife's car and she is pulled over by a police officer for a traffic violation, do I have to inform the officer that I am carrying? If so how is that done?

A:
I take the position that in your scenario only your wife has been "stopped" so you would not technically have to disclose. I know other lawyers that say otherwise. But, as a courtesy to law enforcement and your own safety, I teach you should disclose the fact that you are carrying anyway. You just tell the officer that you have a CPL and a gun on your person or in the car.

Note: It is always recommended that you disclose when in doubt. There is no negative legal consequence to disclosure. The only negative consequence comes from a failure to disclose.

 

[dougwg]

imported post

SQLtables wrote:

dougwg wrote:

From what I understand is that if you are operating under a CPL (loaded gun anywhere inside the vehicle) you MUST disclose.

It doesn't matter if the gun is in the trunk, glove box, your pocket or on your hip.
If it's loaded youmusthave a CPL and you would be operating under that CPL and you must disclose.

If pulled over by LEO for any reason or stopped in any official manner even if you are riding in the back seat of a car AND you have a loaded pistol, you must disclose.

DO NOT YELL "I HAVE A GUN"

Nicely state that you're a CPL holder. Most likely the LEO will then ask if you are in-fact carrying at that time. Tell him. Most likely he/she (LEO) will just say "Ok, leave it there". That should be the end ofit unless you were driving like a total moron or drag racing or something like that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If the gun is in "transportation mode" (unloaded,encased,unaccessible) there is no obligation to disclose.

If you have a CPL, your instructor should have went over ALL of this with you already.


IANAL

Doug,

Can I ask where you got the idea that you should disclose even if you're a passenger? I've always felt that if I'm a passenger, then I'm not really being "stopped" by the LEO if the vehicle gets pulled over. That is, until they address me by asking for ID or whatnot. I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering if you have any official source for this, or if it's just an opinion. Disclosing is definitely the safe choice.

Also, I don't see that you mentioned it, but even if you have a firearm in "transport mode", if the officer asks if there are any weapons, etc in the car, I highly suggest letting the officer know about the ones locked in the trunk.

As far as my memory goes Jim Simmons actually posted the source and it was a US Supreme Court ruling.

When a car is pulled over with people in it, they are ALL being detained.

On your second part.... DO NOT LIE TO THE LEO
Just refuse to answer if you don't want to tell him. Or you can tell him, it's your choice!

 

[dougwg]

imported post

SpringerXDacp wrote:

This is MCRGO's take on this:

Q:
If I am a Passenger in my wife's car and she is pulled over by a police officer for a traffic violation, do I have to inform the officer that I am carrying? If so how is that done?

A:
I take the position that in your scenario only your wife has been "stopped" so you would not technically have to disclose. I know other lawyers that say otherwise. But, as a courtesy to law enforcement and your own safety, I teach you should disclose the fact that you are carrying anyway. You just tell the officer that you have a CPL and a gun on your person or in the car.

Note: It is always recommended that you disclose when in doubt. There is no negative legal consequence to disclosure. The only negative consequence comes from a failure to disclose.

Be VERY careful with info from the FAQ on MCRGO website. It could be dead wrong!

I'll say it this way....When was the last time the FAQ was updated?

Springer,

You quote that site a lot it seems. Please remember that what is posted in the FAQ IS NOT LAW it's opinion.

Although it's a good lawyers opinion but as I stated it could be very out dated.

 

[Jblack44]

imported post

I know the class I took stressed that you should disclose as soon as you submit all your paperwork. Evenif yourwaiting foryour CPL . It sounds like that you will be in the system a lot sooner than you recieving your actual license. So even if your waiting and your not carrying on your person, let them know that your not carrying.

 

[Venator]

imported post

dougwg wrote:

As far as my memory goes Jim Simmons actually posted the source and it was a US Supreme Court ruling.

When a car is pulled over with people in it, they are ALL being detained.

On your second part.... DO NOT LIE TO THE LEO
Just refuse to answer if you don't want to tell him. Or you can tell him, it's your choice!

Here is a supreme court decision that states all passengers are detained by the police in a traffic stop. My advice is to disclose. You are not obligated to say anything if you don't have a CPL. http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinio...df/06-8120.pdf

 

[SQLtables]

imported post

Jblack44 wrote:

I know the class I took stressed that you should disclose as soon as you submit all your paperwork. Evenif yourwaiting foryour CPL . It sounds like that you will be in the system a lot sooner than you recieving your actual license. So even if your waiting and your not carrying on your person, let them know that your not carrying.

Why would you have to disclose if you're not carrying? Of course it won't hurt, but that doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[ghostrider]

imported post

SQLtables wrote:

Jblack44 wrote:

I know the class I took stressed that you should disclose as soon as you submit all your paperwork. Evenif yourwaiting foryour CPL . It sounds like that you will be in the system a lot sooner than you recieving your actual license. So even if your waiting and your not carrying on your person, let them know that your not carrying.

Why would you have to disclose if you're not carrying? Of course it won't hurt, but that doesn't make any sense to me.

You don't have to disclose if you are not carrying concealed. Some people think it's best to do so to make them look better in the eyes of the officer.

As for telling the officer about legally transported weapons inside the trunk. If they are not being transported under the CPL, then there is no need to inform. Doing so is giving the officer information that he/she didn't previously have. It's always going to be an unknown as to whether or not it will allow the officer more liberties.

 

[SQLtables]

imported post

ghostrider wrote:

SQLtables wrote:

Jblack44 wrote:

I know the class I took stressed that you should disclose as soon as you submit all your paperwork. Evenif yourwaiting foryour CPL . It sounds like that you will be in the system a lot sooner than you recieving your actual license. So even if your waiting and your not carrying on your person, let them know that your not carrying.

Why would you have to disclose if you're not carrying? Of course it won't hurt, but that doesn't make any sense to me.

You don't have to disclose if you are not carrying concealed. Some people think it's best to do so to make them look better in the eyes of the officer.

As for telling the officer about legally transported weapons inside the trunk. If they are not being transported under the CPL, then there is no need to inform. Doing so is giving the officer information that he/she didn't previously have. It's always going to be an unknown as to whether or not it will allow the officer more liberties.

It very well may help you out in the eyes of the officer, who knows...

I agree that telling an officer more information than you need to is almost always a bad idea. I guess I really meant what Doug said, if they ask and you DO have a firearm in the trunk, DO NOT tell them no. Remaining silent is a legally safe option, but it may not help you get out of that speeding ticket.

 

[Jblack44]

imported post

I guess like others stated, it makes you look better in the eyes of the officer. This class was taught by current and former LE and that was their opinion.

 

[Tucker6900]

imported post

Jblack44 wrote:

I guess like others stated, it makes you look better in the eyes of the officer. This class was taught by current and former LE and that was their OPINION.

Exactly. LEO opinions are not the law. If Im stopped, and not carrying, the officer will never even see my CPL. Regardless of his opinion.

 

[SQLtables]

imported post

Tucker6900 wrote:

Jblack44 wrote:

I guess like others stated, it makes you look better in the eyes of the officer. This class was taught by current and former LE and that was their OPINION.

Exactly. LEO opinions are not the law. If Im stopped, and not carrying, the officer will never even see my CPL. Regardless of his opinion.

Ditto. It is good to hear opinions, as long as they are stated as such. That's a problem we've addressed here with CPL instructors and their "opinions"

 

[Jblack44]

imported post

SQLtables wrote:

Tucker6900 wrote:

Jblack44 wrote:

I guess like others stated, it makes you look better in the eyes of the officer. This class was taught by current and former LE and that was their OPINION.

Exactly. LEO opinions are not the law. If Im stopped, and not carrying, the officer will never even see my CPL. Regardless of his opinion.

Ditto. It is good to hear opinions, as long as they are stated as such. That's a problem we've addressed here with CPL instructors and their "opinions"

I agree....I was just telling you what was told to us. Stricklyan opinion, not the law. Most of there opinions are against OC as well

 

[ghostrider]

imported post

Jblack44 wrote:

SQLtables wrote:

Tucker6900 wrote:

Jblack44 wrote:

I guess like others stated, it makes you look better in the eyes of the officer. This class was taught by current and former LE and that was their OPINION.

Exactly. LEO opinions are not the law. If Im stopped, and not carrying, the officer will never even see my CPL. Regardless of his opinion.

Ditto. It is good to hear opinions, as long as they are stated as such. That's a problem we've addressed here with CPL instructors and their "opinions"

I agree....I was just telling you what was told to us. Stricklyan opinion, not the law. Most of there opinions are against OC as well

I was thinking about this the other day. It would probably make their job easier if the only people who had guns were cops. That way, they could automatically consider any non-officer with a gun a criminal.

Nor would they want the gangbangers to get the idea that they can just walk around OC'ing, and not fear being questioned about it.

I personally believe such fears are unfounded, but it is what it is. I would really like to know why they oppose OC. I'm convinced the main reason that many people oppose OC is because they fear that it will spur action by fence sitters to get law passed further restricting rights. Somehow, I just don't see the general LE community having the same fear, so I wonder what it might be.