Trijicon Company scope article

[Guest]

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You guys have all presented well articulated opinions.

And, your position is well taken ethan. I may not agree, but you make a very rational case.

 

[Ruckus]

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Ethan_Frome wrote:

Blues, I appeciate your knowledge, candor, and insight.

This goes for the rest of you fine fellers too. It has been an interesting and thought provoking thread.

 

[springerdave]

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Hawkflyer said, "Ethan - When a person holds the minority view it is critically important that they be afforded the opportunity to state that position. Even more important than restatements of the majority view. It is the differences in our views, and the hammering out of understandings in common that make this country strong. You have the freedom to express your views without fear or guilt. The number of people who differ with you has no bearing on the right or wrong of your position." This is true, Ethan. Look at how we started. Surely one person voiced his or her opposition to the king and was a minority at that time. If that person had not had a viewpoint of their own, and voiced it, then others may not have been inclined to join in the discussion that eventually lead to the establishment of these United States. Your opinion, even if different than mine, is still very important. Especially if you can articulate that view with out trashing someone personally while expressing it. You have expressed your view and have not hurt anyone in the process. On the contrary you have provoked, in a positive way, some very great minds into the edification of this not so great one. There are those here that do not share my beliefs, that is OK, as it is not necessary for us to reach the goal of OC being universally accepted as the norm. I accept you as a fellow OCer with different, not opposing views and thank you for your input.springerdave.

 

[Taurus850CIA]

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I think we need one of SpringerXDacp's giant smileys here. A group hug smiley.

 

[SpringerXDacp]

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Taurus850CIA wrote:

I think we need one of SpringerXDacp's giant smileys here. A group hug smiley.

PM sent

 

[intheburbs]

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I know I'm coming in late to this discussion, but just wanted to clarify something. I've been lurking on here for a few years, but never posted.

CV67Pat twice mentioned the value of Trijicon's contract with the government as $60,000,000. You're off by a factor of 10. Trijicon's current contract with the government is worth $660,000,000.

You also just can't say that they caved for the money. While technically true, there's a lot more to it. Trijicon has grown exponentially over the last 4-5 years. The company has expanded its building and continues to add employees. I believe their head count is above 200 employees now. Trijicon is a rare bright spot in the otherwise dark, blighted industrial scene that is SE Michigan. One need only drive 1/2 mile down the street past the empty Ford Wixom plant (arguably Ford's most modern, flagship plant) to be reminded of that.

So Trijicon was faced with a moral dilemma. Do you stick to your guns (no pun intended) and flip off the government and risk losing a large chunk of your revenue, or do you make the pragmatic choice and give in? If the government yanked Trijicon's contract, many people would be out of a job. I'm sure Eotech or Aimpoint would be happy to take over that contract. So if you were in Mr. Bindon's shoes, which decision would you make?

I blame the politicians running the government, not Trijicon, and also the media for blowing this completely out of proportion. That's where the anger should be directed.

Disclosure: I am not an employee of Trijicon.

 

[autosurgeon]

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intheburbs wrote:

I know I'm coming in late to this discussion, but just wanted to clarify something. I've been lurking on here for a few years, but never posted.

CV67Pat twice mentioned the value of Trijicon's contract with the government as $60,000,000. You're off by a factor of 10. Trijicon's current contract with the government is worth $660,000,000.

You also just can't say that they caved for the money. While technically true, there's a lot more to it. Trijicon has grown exponentially over the last 4-5 years. The company has expanded its building and continues to add employees. I believe their head count is above 200 employees now. Trijicon is a rare bright spot in the otherwise dark, blighted industrial scene that is SE Michigan. One need only drive 1/2 mile down the street past the empty Ford Wixom plant (arguably Ford's most modern, flagship plant) to be reminded of that.

So Trijicon was faced with a moral dilemma. Do you stick to your guns (no pun intended) and flip off the government and risk losing a large chunk of your revenue, or do you make the pragmatic choice and give in? If the government yanked Trijicon's contract, many people would be out of a job. I'm sure Eotech or Aimpoint would be happy to take over that contract. So if you were in Mr. Bindon's shoes, which decision would you make?

I blame the politicians running the government, not Trijicon, and also the media for blowing this completely out of proportion. That's where the anger should be directed.

Disclosure: I am not an employee of Trijicon.

I have to agree... the good of the employees and the company must come first in this case.

 

[Guest]

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intheburbs wrote:

I know I'm coming in late to this discussion, but just wanted to clarify something. I've been lurking on here for a few years, but never posted.

CV67Pat twice mentioned the value of Trijicon's contract with the government as $60,000,000. You're off by a factor of 10. Trijicon's current contract with the government is worth $660,000,000.

You also just can't say that they caved for the money. While technically true, there's a lot more to it. Trijicon has grown exponentially over the last 4-5 years. The company has expanded its building and continues to add employees. I believe their head count is above 200 employees now. Trijicon is a rare bright spot in the otherwise dark, blighted industrial scene that is SE Michigan. One need only drive 1/2 mile down the street past the empty Ford Wixom plant (arguably Ford's most modern, flagship plant) to be reminded of that.

So Trijicon was faced with a moral dilemma. Do you stick to your guns (no pun intended) and flip off the government and risk losing a large chunk of your revenue, or do you make the pragmatic choice and give in? If the government yanked Trijicon's contract, many people would be out of a job. I'm sure Eotech or Aimpoint would be happy to take over that contract. So if you were in Mr. Bindon's shoes, which decision would you make?

I blame the politicians running the government, not Trijicon, and also the media for blowing this completely out of proportion. That's where the anger should be directed.

Disclosure: I am not an employee of Trijicon.

You're correct, there was a typographical error in my posts regarding Trijicon's government contract revenues.

And yes, Trijicon has grown exponentially. But at what expense?

I know of an electrical contractor who turned down millions in casino contracts because of his own personal moral conflict. It didn't hurt him one iota.

If Trijicon truly believes in being a light in the world, then what good does it do to hide that light under a basket?

So the question now becomes to me, was this scripture reference nothing more than a cute marketing gimmick by Trijicon? Or was their wealth more important than their convictions.

We can't serve manna and God both.

Additionally, since so much prosperity has been bestowed upon Trijicon by the government, maybe we should all be bellied up to the government trough.

You're right Trijicon didn't cave.

They simply chose to serve manna.

What price for your principles? Trijicon's is $660,000,000.

 

[BluesStringer]

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Edited to say that I shouldn't have jumped as hard as I did a few minutes ago. Sorry if I offended anyone who saw it or anyone whom I directed it to.

 

[Guest]

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BluesStringer wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

intheburbs wrote:

I know I'm coming in late to this discussion, but just wanted to clarify something. I've been lurking on here for a few years, but never posted.

CV67Pat twice mentioned the value of Trijicon's contract with the government as $60,000,000. You're off by a factor of 10. Trijicon's current contract with the government is worth $660,000,000.

You also just can't say that they caved for the money. While technically true, there's a lot more to it. Trijicon has grown exponentially over the last 4-5 years. The company has expanded its building and continues to add employees. I believe their head count is above 200 employees now. Trijicon is a rare bright spot in the otherwise dark, blighted industrial scene that is SE Michigan. One need only drive 1/2 mile down the street past the empty Ford Wixom plant (arguably Ford's most modern, flagship plant) to be reminded of that.

So Trijicon was faced with a moral dilemma. Do you stick to your guns (no pun intended) and flip off the government and risk losing a large chunk of your revenue, or do you make the pragmatic choice and give in? If the government yanked Trijicon's contract, many people would be out of a job. I'm sure Eotech or Aimpoint would be happy to take over that contract. So if you were in Mr. Bindon's shoes, which decision would you make?

I blame the politicians running the government, not Trijicon, and also the media for blowing this completely out of proportion. That's where the anger should be directed.

Disclosure: I am not an employee of Trijicon.

You're correct, there was a typographical error in my posts regarding Trijicon's government contract revenues.

And yes, Trijicon has grown exponentially. But at what expense?

I know of an electrical contractor who turned down millions in casino contracts because of his own personal moral conflict. It didn't hurt him one iota.

If Trijicon truly believes in being a light in the world, then what good does it do to hide that light under a basket?

So the question now becomes to me, was this scripture reference nothing more than a cute marketing gimmick by Trijicon? Or was their wealth more important than their convictions.

We can't serve manna and God both.

Additionally, since so much prosperity has been bestowed upon Trijicon by the government, maybe we should all be bellied up to the government trough.

You're right Trijicon didn't cave.

They simply chose to serve manna.

What price for your principles? Trijicon's is $660,000,000.

That is ridiculous. If a merchant has a moral objection to gambling, then he has a moral obligation not to support, fund, work or otherwise engage in it.

If a merchant has no obligation whatsoever, either morally, personally or scripturally, to include biblical references in writing on every widget he produces, but then does it anyway for more than 30 years, he has engaged in nothing but voluntary tribute to said references. "Voluntary" to me means he can voluntarily stop making the references without being hammered by a judgmental, holier-than-thou, know-nothing faction of the Christian community.

You can't serve "manna" (sorry, never heard that term before) and God both? Really? Are the missionaries in Haiti right now serving both? How about the religious folk who contributed and/or went to Thailand after the tsunami? Man or God, which one was being served since it couldn't have been both?

Luckily for me I am agnostic. It's not much of an insult to me to say that the two weeks I spent in Biloxi after Katrina was not a God-inspired endeavor. It wasn't for me, but it was for the vast majority of folks I went there with, and I'm reasonably certain that they would vehemently disagree with you on this score.

Regardless, were I a religious man, I would question your authority to speak for God in the first place by telling strangers what their motivations can or cannot be inspired by. You accept the spin of an ultra-liberal, anti-Christian media and post it here as though it came from the mouth of God. My only question is, what have you been doing voluntarily for 30+ years that earned you permission from God to judge strangers' motivations for their business decisions?

Just sayin'......

Manna...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna

My reference to it is in regard to the comtemopary analogy.

Loosely it means that you can't serve God and money both.

Trijicon obviously used the scriptural inscriptions as an indication of their perceived blessings, having been a light in the dark.

Ultimately though, they chose the money (manna) instead of God as the core of their principled beliefs.

 

[HankT]

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CV67PAT wrote:

Manna...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna

My reference to it is in regard to the comtemopary analogy.

Loosely it means that you can't serve God and money both.

Trijicon obviously used the scriptural inscriptions as an indication of their perceived blessings, having been a light in the dark.

Ultimately though, they chose the money (manna) instead of God as the core of their principled beliefs.

Is that like Mammon?

 

[autosurgeon]

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Manna was what god gave them to eat Mammon was something quite diff :lol:

 

[Guest]

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CV67PAT wrote:

intheburbs wrote:

I know I'm coming in late to this discussion, but just wanted to clarify something. I've been lurking on here for a few years, but never posted.

CV67Pat twice mentioned the value of Trijicon's contract with the government as $60,000,000. You're off by a factor of 10. Trijicon's current contract with the government is worth $660,000,000.

You also just can't say that they caved for the money. While technically true, there's a lot more to it. Trijicon has grown exponentially over the last 4-5 years. The company has expanded its building and continues to add employees. I believe their head count is above 200 employees now. Trijicon is a rare bright spot in the otherwise dark, blighted industrial scene that is SE Michigan. One need only drive 1/2 mile down the street past the empty Ford Wixom plant (arguably Ford's most modern, flagship plant) to be reminded of that.

So Trijicon was faced with a moral dilemma. Do you stick to your guns (no pun intended) and flip off the government and risk losing a large chunk of your revenue, or do you make the pragmatic choice and give in? If the government yanked Trijicon's contract, many people would be out of a job. I'm sure Eotech or Aimpoint would be happy to take over that contract. So if you were in Mr. Bindon's shoes, which decision would you make?

I blame the politicians running the government, not Trijicon, and also the media for blowing this completely out of proportion. That's where the anger should be directed.

Disclosure: I am not an employee of Trijicon.

You're correct, there was a typographical error in my posts regarding Trijicon's government contract revenues.

And yes, Trijicon has grown exponentially. But at what expense?

I know of an electrical contractor who turned down millions in casino contracts because of his own personal moral conflict. It didn't hurt him one iota.

If Trijicon truly believes in being a light in the world, then what good does it do to hide that light under a basket?

So the question now becomes to me, was this scripture reference nothing more than a cute marketing gimmick by Trijicon? Or was their wealth more important than their convictions.

We can't serve mammon and God both.

Additionally, since so much prosperity has been bestowed upon Trijicon by the government, maybe we should all be bellied up to the government trough.

You're right Trijicon didn't cave.

They simply chose to serve mammon.

What price for your principles? Trijicon's is $660,000,000.

HankT's right.

I've corrected my post.

 

[BluesStringer]

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HankT wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

Manna...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna

My reference to it is in regard to the comtemopary analogy.

Loosely it means that you can't serve God and money both.

Trijicon obviously used the scriptural inscriptions as an indication of their perceived blessings, having been a light in the dark.

Ultimately though, they chose the money (manna) instead of God as the core of their principled beliefs.

Is that like Mammon?

Manna, Mammon, it's all Greek to me. Still gotta say though, irrespective of the terminology, the premise that Trijicon, "...chose the money...instead of God as the core of their principled beliefs" is a ridiculously absurd statement which could only have the slightest bit of validity if the person stating it actually knew the decision-makers at Trijicon, and they could show some scholarship on Christianity that would suggest that Believers who are in the business of manufacturing are morally compelled to inscribe anything on their products at all. I seriously doubt either is true or can be shown.

Beyond that though, just the knee-jerk instinct to slam Trijicon for their decision to remove the inscriptions on only those scopes that are going to the military, would seem extremely shortsighted from a moralistic point of view to me anyway. How is God being served by putting a bunch of His people in the unemployment line? What greater principal is upheld by that? How is God served if His people can't afford to feed themselves? Clothe themselves? Tithe to their churches? Contribute to charities? What other tributes to God might the decision-makers at Trijicon be doing on an on-going basis with portions of that $660 million, such as supporting missions to third world countries, or funding Christian schools in their area, or setting up soup kitchens for the poor? The list could go on and on and on, but you're here to tell us that you know that God views this one decision as Trijicon choosing money over Him? Or are you instead saying that that's just what you think and you don't really care what God thinks? Because I would submit, that you don't know what God thinks, and should, if you're going to present yourself as one of the faithful, defer to Him and drop the judgmentalism when it's clear that you're in no position to judge anything except that which is directly related to your own relationship, if any, with God.

Blues

 

[Guest]

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BluesStringer wrote:

HankT wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

Manna...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna

My reference to it is in regard to the comtemopary analogy.

Loosely it means that you can't serve God and money both.

Trijicon obviously used the scriptural inscriptions as an indication of their perceived blessings, having been a light in the dark.

Ultimately though, they chose the money (manna) instead of God as the core of their principled beliefs.

Is that like Mammon?

Manna, Mammon, it's all Greek to me. Still gotta say though, irrespective of the terminology, the premise that Trijicon, "...chose the money...instead of God as the core of their principled beliefs" is a ridiculously absurd statement which could only have the slightest bit of validity if the person stating it actually knew the decision-makers at Trijicon, and they could show some scholarship on Christianity that would suggest that Believers who are in the business of manufacturing are morally compelled to inscribe anything on their products at all. I seriously doubt either is true or can be shown.

Beyond that though, just the knee-jerk instinct to slam Trijicon for their decision to remove the inscriptions on only those scopes that are going to the military, would seem extremely shortsighted from a moralistic point of view to me anyway. How is God being served by putting a bunch of His people in the unemployment line? What greater principal is upheld by that? How is God served if His people can't afford to feed themselves? Clothe themselves? Tithe to their churches? Contribute to charities? What other tributes to God might the decision-makers at Trijicon be doing on an on-going basis with portions of that $660 million, such as supporting missions to third world countries, or funding Christian schools in their area, or setting up soup kitchens for the poor? The list could go on and on and on, but you're here to tell us that you know that God views this one decision as Trijicon choosing money over Him? Or are you instead saying that that's just what you think and you don't really care what God thinks? Because I would submit, that you don't know what God thinks, and should, if you're going to present yourself as one of the faithful, defer to Him and drop the judgmentalism when it's clear that you're in no position to judge anything except that which is directly related to your own relationship, if any, with God.

Blues

I can't begin to explain anything which you refuse to believe.

It's all Greek to you. And as long as you refuse to learn Greek you won't understand Greek.

 

[BluesStringer]

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CV67PAT wrote:

BluesStringer wrote:

HankT wrote:

CV67PAT wrote:

Manna...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manna

My reference to it is in regard to the comtemopary analogy.

Loosely it means that you can't serve God and money both.

Trijicon obviously used the scriptural inscriptions as an indication of their perceived blessings, having been a light in the dark.

Ultimately though, they chose the money (manna) instead of God as the core of their principled beliefs.

Is that like Mammon?

Manna, Mammon, it's all Greek to me. Still gotta say though, irrespective of the terminology, the premise that Trijicon, "...chose the money...instead of God as the core of their principled beliefs" is a ridiculously absurd statement which could only have the slightest bit of validity if the person stating it actually knew the decision-makers at Trijicon, and they could show some scholarship on Christianity that would suggest that Believers who are in the business of manufacturing are morally compelled to inscribe anything on their products at all. I seriously doubt either is true or can be shown.

Beyond that though, just the knee-jerk instinct to slam Trijicon for their decision to remove the inscriptions on only those scopes that are going to the military, would seem extremely shortsighted from a moralistic point of view to me anyway. How is God being served by putting a bunch of His people in the unemployment line? What greater principal is upheld by that? How is God served if His people can't afford to feed themselves? Clothe themselves? Tithe to their churches? Contribute to charities? What other tributes to God might the decision-makers at Trijicon be doing on an on-going basis with portions of that $660 million, such as supporting missions to third world countries, or funding Christian schools in their area, or setting up soup kitchens for the poor? The list could go on and on and on, but you're here to tell us that you know that God views this one decision as Trijicon choosing money over Him? Or are you instead saying that that's just what you think and you don't really care what God thinks? Because I would submit, that you don't know what God thinks, and should, if you're going to present yourself as one of the faithful, defer to Him and drop the judgmentalism when it's clear that you're in no position to judge anything except that which is directly related to your own relationship, if any, with God.

Blues

I can't begin to explain anything which you refuse to believe.

It's all Greek to you. And as long as you refuse to learn Greek you won't understand Greek.

See, I wasn't really looking for help with learning a second language. I was looking for some of that good ol' fashioned Christian compassion and understanding for the fine folks at Trijicon. Instead all I got was that same tired ol' judgmentalism and holier-than-thou meme that makes non-believers like me want no part of your religion. It's really quite amazing.

Might I suggest that the next time you have a chat with God that you ask....no, beg Him for some help with how best to evangelize and bring new converts to His flock. Good luck with that.

 

[Guest]

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You've got me mistaken for one of those believers with a fish on the car holding up traffic or cutting you off.

Nope, I'm one of those retched sinners.

 

[BluesStringer]

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CV67PAT wrote:

You've got me mistaken for one of those believers with a fish on the car holding up traffic or cutting you off.

Nope, I'm one of those retched sinners.

Nope, I'm not confusing you with anything, not even a sinner. Just a run of the mill hypocrite is all I see. :what:

 

[Guest]

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BluesStringer wrote: meh

 

[Zukirider]

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Well i strongly support Trijicon i am planning on buy optics from them in the near future, and i think as a christian that what they where doing is great, i am also glad that they became the "Bigger Man" in this situation for the sole reason that our men and women over seas in combat deserve nothing but they very best gear that we can offer them, i have not personaly used the ACOG scopebut i have heard nothing but the greatest review from sportsman and soldiers alike, so as i stated im glad that trijicon was able to rectify the situation so our soldiers continue to recieve nothing but the best!!!!!