Unintended Consequences, illegal orders

[AWDstylez]

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

The US Armed Forces is constant. It will defend the United States against 'all enemies'... it's own government if necessary.

Yea, like "terrorists," which we're all a label away from being. Legality doesn't seem to matter as evidenced by Gitmo.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

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You know nothing about Gitmo. You know NOTHING about terrorists (guerrilla Jihadi's) either.

 

[Dustin]

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I read thru a few pages but not all. So I hope I'm not beating a dead horse whenI say this again.

The Military is NOT mindless nazi zombies like most sheeple and main stream media make us out to be. Like your friend said, we took the oath to the constitution. Most fellow Marines I know hate the Big Government, and Presidetial political BS just like the next patriot does. We just so happen to work for the government too.

IF, and that's a BIG IF it ever came down to something like you suggested, I don't see it going down as a huge Violent War. I see 90% of the Military and 50% of the country standing up with arms, taking over the white house peacefully. Even Congress will be doing the same. I don't think those spineless politicians will put up much of a fight. I think they'll realize that they've been fooling us long enough, and that the People have finaly awaken from their sheepish slumber. Then scaredout of their pants they'll probably step out of the way or be crushed.

 

[shad0wfax]

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AWDstylez wrote:

Sonora Rebel wrote:

The US Armed Forces is constant. It will defend the United States against 'all enemies'... it's own government if necessary.

Yea, like "terrorists," which we're all a label away from being. Legality doesn't seem to matter as evidenced by Gitmo.

Unless you're working directly for the DoD overseas as an contractor, operator or a commissioned or enlisted military member, I have very little, if any, respect for your opinion. Unless you've been stationedat the US Naval Base Guantanamo Bay, and more importantly you actually belonged to JTF-GTMO, then the only thing you know about it is what the media has indoctrinated you with.

The odds of you having been both in combat overseas and also working for JTF-GTMO are quite slim.

As a veteran, I suggest you STFU about our armed forces and what they will or won't do if our government becomes a tyranny over-night.



Now if you want to bash on Bush for pushing the Patriot Act, then I'll jump on your bandwagon and agree that it was a horrible infringement on our rights and is highly likely to be even more severely misusedby "liberals" than it already has been by "conservatives."

But don't presume to judge the US Armed Forces or the folks down at JTF-GTMO unless you know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[SouthernBoy]

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I'd like to jump into my own thread for a moment and relate something to those of you who honor our military personnel.

I'm sure most steeped in the gun culture know who White Feather was. Carlos Hathcock served in Vietnam as a sniper and was quite successful in his craft. In 1969 his career was cut short when the amtrack he was one hit a mine. Though injured and burned, he pulled seven Marines to safety from the engulfed vehicle. One of those Marines put Carlos in for the CMH. I had the privilege and honor to go shooting a few years ago (busting clays with shotguns) with this man whom Carlos had saved. He had lost one of his arms (the left I think, but can't say for sure) in the explosion. He was a grissled old vet but he and I hit it off right away. I was humbled in his presence.

Something I have said for years. When in the presence of someone from whom you can learn a lot, the best thing to do is throw out a few questions, then shut up and listen. If they are of a mind, they have much to tell.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

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Lông Trắng was awarded the Silver Star near 30 years after the fact for pullin' those Marines outt'a that burnin' 'Trac. He was never decorated for his combat sniper op's.

'Met him in Va Beach briefly'couple years before he died. 'Good ol' boy!

 

[SouthernBoy]

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

Lông Trắng was awarded the Silver Star near 30 years after the fact for pullin' those Marines outt'a that burnin' 'Trac. He was never decorated for his combat sniper op's.

'Met him in Va Beach briefly'couple years before he died. 'Good ol' boy!

Yes, I knew that. When originally offered the award, he turned it down as I recall.

I had a chance to meet him in the 90's at a gun show but did make it. I kick my butt now.

The men who do the hard work, do so to make our lives easier. One of my favorite quotes is this.

"They gave up all of their tomorrows that you might have today."

 

[AWDstylez]

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SouthernBoy wrote:

"They gave up all of their tomorrows that you might have today."

Didn't we all have this discussion before? No one here is disrespecting WWII vets, or any vets from a war that ACTUALLY involved defending our freedom (WWII was the last one). No one is defending anything at the moment but oil reserves and the interests of corporations. There's no honor in that. However, that's not even what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the reasons the majority of people join nowadays. The fact that the "wars" have nothing to do with defending our country is another issue.

 

[r6-rider]

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after 9/11 our military went on the offensive to kill those responsible for the attack. that shows that if you **** with us we will attack back, in a way that is defending our freedom by showing that we wont be defeated. plus that attack gave alot of people incentive to enlist, id call that honorable

 

[Dustin]

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AWDstylez wrote:

No one is defending anything at the moment but oil reserves and the interests of corporations.

That's BS, but I don't expect you to know that. How could you, you've never been there. Stylez, you know you can't give an accurate account of what goes on over there, all you can do is give the same opinion every other MSM watcher can give. You only know what you see on TV.

That's not what I was doing whenI was over there.

We were liberating the city of Fallujah. If a man refused to harbor insurgents, they cut his hands off, raped his wife and daughters, and beheaded his sons. HAVE YOU EVER seen a house where that has taken place ? We'll I promise, you'll not soon forget that image. That's just a tip of the iceberg of what was going on there in ONE city. NO HUMAN ALIVE deserves to live in that kind of fear. I don't care what color/race/religion they are. Does that sound like oil reserves and coporate interest to you ? I don't think it does. If that kind of horror was happening over here, I'd dang sure appreciate some foreign military help.

I do beleive in your right to publicly express you opinion. In this case though, I believe it to be pure ignorance. Especially when you have Vets here like me who can give you a first hand experience of what is REALLY going on.

This goes back to thinking our Military is mindless zombies. You don't think we watch the news, you don't think we know what's going on ? We're not Fighting and DYING overseas for the love of freaking OIL !



With that being said, I respectfuly Disagree with your statement.

 

[PT111]

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No one is defending anything at the moment but oil reserves and the interests of corporations.

I really can't come up with a reply to that. It is beyond ........................... my abilities. :banghead:

 

[AWDstylez]

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r6-rider wrote:

after 9/11 our military went on the offensive to kill those responsible for the attack. that shows that if you **** with us we will attack back, in a way that is defending our freedom by showing that we wont be defeated. plus that attack gave alot of people incentive to enlist, id call that honorable

orly?

 

[AWDstylez]

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Dustin wrote:

If a man refused to harbor insurgents

Did it ever occur to you that the only "insurgents" over there is the foreign, invading military force for the United States? These are "insurgents" by who's definition? Yours? Bush's? The US government's? The US is the foreign invader. You'll have to forgive those evil "insurgents" for trying to get your ass out of their country. You'd do the same if you were in their place. Suppose Russia thinks we aren't doing a good enough job tracking down the "terrorists" inside the US, so they invade and start kicking in doors and taking your guns. What would your reaction be? Would you become an evil insurgent or would you smile and hand them over? Everyone in Russia and the Russian media would be saying, "My goodness, I just don't understand why they aren't cooperating! We're liberating them from all the terrorists they've been unable to find!! We're defending freedom and keeping Mother Russia safer! They should love us!"

Did the military give you a Middle-East history lesson by any chance? I guess that'd be hard to do seeing as how the leaders need one themselves. The conflict there is as old as the ages. No waste of money and life US military action is going to fix it. It's only escalating it and giving the entire Arab world (hell,atthis point theentire planet)a good reason to rally 'round the anti-US cause of the true terrorists.

Not that'd I'd expect any bias in opinion from yourself. I mean, come on, you were fed your opinion by the US military itself, they have no interest in this conflict. They're as unbiased as it comes. :quirky The difference between myself and the general US public is that the public separates out its lack of support for the war and it's support for the troops themselves, seeing the troops as some poor, confused, innoccent party to all of it. I, on the other hand, can recognize that the members comprising the US military are every bit as much at fault as the government. This isn't a drafted force. If your ass is/was over there, supporting this failed and worthless conflict that is actually making our own soil LESS safe, then you're as much at fault as anyone in the government that sent you over there. And that is the politically incorrect reality.

 

[Sonora Rebel]

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Stylez... You need your ass kicked on a regular basis just to keep your head straight. It would appear that you're long overdue for an application... followed by a big cup of STFU!

 

[AWDstylez]

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

Stylez... You need your ass kicked on a regular basis just to keep your head straight. It would appear that you're long overdue for an application... followed by a big cup of STFU!

Care to say anything of substance or is that all you've got right there?

 

[Dustin]

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AWDstylez wrote:

And that is the politically incorrect reality.

Nah, that's just your inexperienced opinion. You've never seen any of what your saying first hand.

However, who the real enemy of 9/11 was, is like you said, a whole other beast in it's self.


AWDstylez wrote:

Care to say anything of substance or is that all you've got right there?

That's a good point. You should try it

 

[Sonora Rebel]

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One on One punk... There'd be MUCH substance! Trust me! You think you're such a know-it-all. You haven't a clue what you don't realize... know... suspect.

 

[compmanio365]

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People, seriously. AWD is entitled to his dumbass opinion as much as you are entitled to disagree with it. Threatening violence across the Internet doesn't do anything but make everyone here look bad to people looking at this forum, and makes you look kinda stupid. Tone it down. :banghead:

 

[Tomahawk]

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Threatening to kick somebody's ass on the internet.

That's smart.

 

[Hawkflyer]

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Sonora Rebel wrote:

One on One punk... There'd be MUCH substance! Trust me! You think you're such a know-it-all. You haven't a clue what you don't realize... know... suspect.

Sonora,

I know how you feel. I have faith that once you walk away and come back you will have cooled off some. You and I both know that stylez is the red dot on the south end of a north bound mule.He depends on the Internet to protect him from his mouth (keyboard), in fact it is most probable that he does not carry and may not even own a firearm. The idea of service in the military or any other national service is completely foreign to him. There is no way he would say the things he says in person to anyone. Like many of the rest of us you will just have to write him off as an Internet ninja.

He usually needs to look things up in a text or ask his professors for the proper responses to posts on this forum. He clearly has never "been there" in almost any of the contexts discussed routinely on this forum. As such he has no idea what he is talking about. He will visit the ground zero monument in New York City and tell people he was there. That is the sum of his actual knowledge.

Kiss him off, you are better than he is. As hard as it is to do, let it go.

Respectfully