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United Airlines kerfuffle

countryclubjoe

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Grasping at straws at this point. The last refuge of the liberal is bringing up long past, and now irrelevant, events.

Not grasping at all, simply giving my opinion that for 83 years the " Bill of Rights" did not pertain to all American's therefore said Bill was bogus until the 13th, 14th and 15th, were ratified.. Again, WE, the people, was a crock of crap as was the "Bill of Rights"..

Instead of articulating that " I am Grasping", please articulate on " My Opinion".. Hence, give YOUR opinion, our History is not irrelevant, unless one is ignorant to debate thereof..

OC, I know you are NOT ignorant on the topic, therefore, I shall await your intelligent reply/opinion..

Regards
CCJ
 
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countryclubjoe

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As one prays, one thinks, one speaks, one acts. Corruption starts at the root. No prayers causes thoughtlessness, thoughtless speech, thoughtless acts.

Clearly Old Word Salad, an intelligent person like yourself does not believe such rhetoric. I have meet and tutored many young man and woman that were prohibit from praying in there respective public schools, and believe me, those young people were highly thoughtful and very intelligent..

Words have meaning Sir, please try to explain what you post after you finish your praying.

CCJ
 

OC for ME

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Expending energies discussing that which is irrelevant under our current laws does not move us towards a full restoration of our unfettered right to keep and bear arms. I routinely iterate what needs to be done to reign in government abuses. Overturn Terry v. Ohio, eliminate qualified immunity that protects bungling cops. The BoR is what it is and being evident for any who wish to read it gives us all that which we need to hold government in their intended place.

If your position is that the BoR was a crock of c**p, then, how do you hold the BoR now? It seems from your steadfast loyalty to a unwritten constitution the BoR remains a crock of c**p.

Unlike United Airlines and their missteps, government is bound by laws that are currently on the books. UA can, and does, change its terms of service at their whim. Government is not permitted to do so or be in violation of our constitutional protections. UA can favor one customer over another at their pleasure, government (court system) should not, and must not, be used to hold UA liable. Let the traveling public hold UA liable via free market principals.
 

solus

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here nc
Expending energies discussing that which is irrelevant under our current laws does not move us towards a full restoration of our unfettered right to keep and bear arms. I routinely iterate what needs to be done to reign in government abuses. Overturn Terry v. Ohio, eliminate qualified immunity that protects bungling cops. The BoR is what it is and being evident for any who wish to read it gives us all that which we need to hold government in their intended place.

If your position is that the BoR was a crock of c**p, then, how do you hold the BoR now? It seems from your steadfast loyalty to a unwritten constitution the BoR remains a crock of c**p.

Unlike United Airlines and their missteps, government is bound by laws that are currently on the books. UA can, and does, change its terms of service at their whim. Government is not permitted to do so or be in violation of our constitutional protections. UA can favor one customer over another at their pleasure, government (court system) should not, and must not, be used to hold UA liable. Let the traveling public hold UA liable via free market principals.

unfortunately, our government, both nationally and state level, changes the terms of 'service' at a whim also. e.g., the Republican controlled NC legislature called special legislative sessions to strip the incoming Democratic governor of governance the previous governor enjoyed (and abused) during his tenure at the helm! further, example was under the previous Republican Goveror/Legislative gaggle they passed gerrymandering statutes to control the ethnicity of districts and passed HB2.

sorry, our government is not bound by laws currently on the books as they pass laws that suit their whim, such as the QI protection BS laws!!

ipse
 

countryclubjoe

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Messages
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Expending energies discussing that which is irrelevant under our current laws does not move us towards a full restoration of our unfettered right to keep and bear arms. I routinely iterate what needs to be done to reign in government abuses. Overturn Terry v. Ohio, eliminate qualified immunity that protects bungling cops. The BoR is what it is and being evident for any who wish to read it gives us all that which we need to hold government in their intended place.

If your position is that the BoR was a crock of c**p, then, how do you hold the BoR now? It seems from your steadfast loyalty to a unwritten constitution the BoR remains a crock of c**p.

Unlike United Airlines and their missteps, government is bound by laws that are currently on the books. UA can, and does, change its terms of service at their whim. Government is not permitted to do so or be in violation of our constitutional protections. UA can favor one customer over another at their pleasure, government (court system) should not, and must not, be used to hold UA liable. Let the traveling public hold UA liable via free market principals.

Please take the time and read what I post, I stated " that before the ratification of the 13th,14th and 15th amendments, the BOR was a crock, because said BOR did not apply to all citizens." The 13th, 14th and 15th did indeed strengthen the Bill of Rights..(emphasis added). I currently hold the BOR in very high esteem.

We also need much better lawyering in defense of our individual rights, also we need more honorable prosecutors to prosecute unlawful actions by our paid servants aka government agents.
My .02

OC, always a pleasure Sir, even if your fail to properly read my post..
Regards
CCJ
 

deepdiver

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Please take the time and read what I post, I stated " that before the ratification of the 13th,14th and 15th amendments, the BOR was a crock, because said BOR did not apply to all citizens." The 13th, 14th and 15th did indeed strengthen the Bill of Rights..(emphasis added).

Yet you omit the 17th which in practice essentially destroyed the 10th and the 19th which enfranchised over 50% of the population rather than 5% or less. *shrug* Kerfuffle.
 

OC for ME

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Please take the time and read what I post, I stated " that before the ratification of the 13th,14th and 15th amendments, the BOR was a crock, because said BOR did not apply to all citizens." The 13th, 14th and 15th did indeed strengthen the Bill of Rights..(emphasis added). I currently hold the BOR in very high esteem.

We also need much better lawyering in defense of our individual rights, also we need more honorable prosecutors to prosecute unlawful actions by our paid servants aka government agents.
My .02

OC, always a pleasure Sir, even if your fail to properly read my post..
Regards
CCJ
And likewise, read what I post.

If your position is that the BoR was a crock of c**p, then, how do you hold the BoR now? It seems from your steadfast loyalty to a unwritten constitution the BoR remains a crock of c**p.
The plain text of the constitution addresses all of our rights. Whether or not government respects them is the singular point.
 

countryclubjoe

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Yet you omit the 17th which in practice essentially destroyed the 10th and the 19th which enfranchised over 50% of the population rather than 5% or less. *shrug* Kerfuffle.

How did an amendment concerning "elections of Senators".. do what you espouse?

CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

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Electing US senators via popular vote, instead of being appointed by state legislators, the states were stripped of their most essential power over the federal government.


The 14th had already stripped away said power, and thank the people for that. Read the Selective Incorporation Doctrine for reference.

Regards
CCJ
 

countryclubjoe

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Electing US senators via popular vote, instead of being appointed by state legislators, the states were stripped of their most essential power over the federal government.

Yes, therefore the power was given to the people via election and majority rule.. However since woman were still not allow to vote in said elections, the 17th did not give rights to " all citizens".. Not until 1920 when the 19th amendment was ratified..

Bear in mind that even during the framing, the Federal Constitution, trumped State Constitutions...

CCJ
 

OC for ME

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The 14A has nothing to do with stripping powers from the states. It has everything to do with holding states to respect our rights enumerated in the plain text of the constitution.

Article I, Section 3 - 1: The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, chosen by the Legislature thereof,3 for six Years; and each Senator shall have one Vote.
When a senator is looking over his shoulder to see if his state's legislature will recall him, he tends to do the bidding of his state...which is how The Founders wanted it to be.

But, this concept is foreign to those who believe in a unwritten constitution.

Like the 16A, the 17A is how power was taken from the people and the states.
 

deepdiver

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The 14A has nothing to do with stripping powers from the states. It has everything to do with holding states to respect our rights enumerated in the plain text of the constitution.

When a senator is looking over his shoulder to see if his state's legislature will recall him, he tends to do the bidding of his state...which is how The Founders wanted it to be.

But, this concept is foreign to those who believe in a unwritten constitution.

Like the 16A, the 17A is how power was taken from the people and the states.
Thank you OCforME, I didn't have time earlier to do more than make a quick comment to remind me to come back but you covered it succinctly.
 

countryclubjoe

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The 14A has nothing to do with stripping powers from the states. It has everything to do with holding states to respect our rights enumerated in the plain text of the constitution.

When a senator is looking over his shoulder to see if his state's legislature will recall him, he tends to do the bidding of his state...which is how The Founders wanted it to be.

But, this concept is foreign to those who believe in a unwritten constitution.

Like the 16A, the 17A is how power was taken from the people and the states.

If the Father of the BOR ( George Mason) were alive today, I would imagine, that he would believe that an 'Unwritten Constitution" is in fact alive and well.. For the simplest of reasons, he did not confer total authority on the proposed written constitution, even refused to sign his name to the document.
Mason in my humble opinion, was the smartest of all the Fathers, including that esteemed 'Polymath" Dr. Franklin

The 17th is based on the concept of " majority rule"...

Again, in my humble opinion, the 13th, 14th, 15th and 19th amendments close any and all ambiguities espouse in the BOR..

To fully appreciate the document, we must stop looking thru the prism of 18th century America, and look thru the prism of 21st America.

The Founders, of which, some were indeed, petty tyrants, understood that " the vanity and presumption of Governing beyond the grave is the most ridiculous and insolent of all tyrannies. They left the power of making new amendments to their posterity, and, advancing the document and individual liberties thereof..

We are all Constitutionalist, we are all textualist, however we also need to exercise our natural God given right 'to think".. A right that is no where stated in the written text.. We must apply " Penumbra Reasoning" to the terse text.. Or simply read Griswold v Connecticut..

Interesting debate folks.

My .02
CCJ
 
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OC for ME

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State legislatures are elected via majority rule. The people of each state have a say in how their legislatures are composed.

What would the Senate look like in 2016 without the 17th Amendment? ...

This indirect selection method had its flaws. Deadlocks could prevent a state from sending someone to Congress. Only 2 percent of the races ended in a deadlock--but these deadlocks were devastating, because they prevented patronage jobs from being appointed. ...

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/what-would-senate-look-like-without-the-17th-amendment
The proof of my words is evident for all to see. I believe that patronage jobs is how our rights were/are eroded.
 

solus

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State legislatures are elected via majority rule. The people of each state have a say in how their legislatures are composed.

The proof of my words is evident for all to see. I believe that patronage jobs is how our rights were/are eroded.

NC's legislature engaged and got caught in gerrymandering to rig their rise to power via manipulation ~ so NC citizens have say, eh!

ipse
 
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