Unlawfully detained at Southcenter mall

[just_a_car]

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HankT wrote:

HOLYROLLER wrote:

Cue-Ball wrote:

I just want to take a second to thank Ryan for coming here and trying to offer a different perspective (regardless of whether anyone agrees or not). I'm especially glad to hear that, no matter what happened at the time, he supports the right to carry.

+1. Its refreshing to hear both sides of a story in a civil manner.

It was interesting to see the pack "welcome" Ryan when he first came in--and said some things they didn't like. Real open-minded, they were...

That being said, since this is the first time I've seen this thread since he joined in on the discussion:

Let me be (what appears) the first to WELCOME flyin_ryan to the OCDO boards. Hopefully you'll enjoy the rest of your time here and become a quality contributing member, but from what I've seen so far, I have no doubt that you will be.

I hope that you join us for our next "3rd Saturday Lunch" so that we can meet you face-to-face. I honestly really enjoy getting to know the other gentlemen (since I haven't really encountered any ladies) on here. Plus, putting a face to a name makes belonging to a forum 'community' that much more rewarding.

 

[Gray Peterson]

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As an employee of this business, you seem to be opening them up to liability by pointing out that their "gun free zone" policy is only enforceable against people who carry their pistols openly. That's plenty fine with me and I hope that expvideo will consider filing a lawsuit against this business.

Please tell me under what civil torts he could file a lawsuit under?

Until the State of Washington states that public accomodations like malls cannot ban guns via a passed RCW by the Legislature, he'd have no case against Westfield.

There's a different way to deal with Westfield's situation. I've gotten no takers in one of the main forum in the places as for that. Anyone from out of state here wanna help?

 

[BB62]

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Lonnie Wilson wrote:

As an employee of this business, you seem to be opening them up to liability by pointing out that their "gun free zone" policy is only enforceable against people who carry their pistols openly. That's plenty fine with me and I hope that expvideo will consider filing a lawsuit against this business.

...I've gotten no takers in one of the main forum in the places as for that. Anyone from out of state here wanna help?

Lonnie - can you explain what you mean (or link to it)?

P.S. - Welcome Ryan!

 

[Gray Peterson]

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Look in News and Political Alerts.

 

[Agent 47]

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Anything new on this, how's the lawsuit going?

 

[expvideo]

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I got the police reports. Apparantly after I talked to a supervisor they got chewed out about what the law was, because the police reports were extremely inaccurate. They made it look like I was shaking from heroin withdrawls and threatening to hurt the officers, while they calmly explained to me that it was completely legal for me to OC. It was a load of crap. The reports reak of bullshit, and I hope a judge can realize that. As for the lawsuit, I'm still trying to find an attourney that will take it. There pretty-much aren't any attourneys that handle this kind of thing. If anyone knows someone who will, please let me know.

I'm thinking the ACLU might actually help me, since it's unlawful arrest.

 

[Agent 47]

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Thanks for the update. Keep up the good fight, this is a case that is important for all of us as it will help set a precedent and make sure that other departments take note.

 

[Mainsail]

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After my initial encounter with TPD I wrote everything down, several times actually, and finally got a letter through to the officers’ sergeant. She had them write up a report, and not surprisingly, they left a lot of information out. Olsen even denied saying that he would personally respond and take my firearm, even if he wasn’t the one called out, and then leave it to me to get it back from the judge. He claimed he never ordered me to conceal it when he gave it back to me.



It took three encounters and a lot of behind-the-scenes letters and discussion, but Tacoma PD seems to be ‘in the know’ finally with regards to OC.

 

[Marco]

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[sv_libertarian]

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dhoney75 wrote:

Good luck finding some sleaze-bag lawyer to take your case.Get a real job andquit trying to earn aquick buck with your lawsuit.You should be ashamed of yourself...as a multi-generational NRA member, I am ashamed of you

Whatever. They make pills you can take to calm you down.



Expvideo, that whole experience SUCKS ROYALLY! If you end up taking donations, I'll toss some your way. I hate cops who don't think they have to know the laws... sounds like California cops...

 

[Cue-Ball]

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I would check with CCRKBA and/or the Second Amendment Foundation in Bellevue. They may be able to recommend a gun friendly lawyer to take your case.

saf.org and ccrkba.org

 

[expvideo]

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Great idea! Thank you Cue-Ball! I'll get in contact with them. I can find plenty of gun friendly defense lawyers, and plenty of civil liberties lawyers, but no combination of the two...

 

[just_a_car]

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Found in the September 2007 issue of the Washington Arms Collectors publication "Gun News":

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c260/just_a_car/dc22cea8.jpg

(I was going to post the picture, but it's huge. Your browser should resize it to small enough to read.)

 

[flyin_ryan]

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Hope you find someone good. Let me know if I can help as I am not working there anymore I don't know what I can do, but I'm at your service. I want to at least see some people educated on this, I think this my be the way to go to get some much needed awareness.

 

[expvideo]

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I appreciate it ryan. I may need some help, since the police reports make me sound like a crazed heroine addict. The police said they restrained my arm because I was "going at" one of the officers (I was standing still). They said that they told me that they knew it was legal for me to open carry, and I was only being detained so that the trespass notice could be written up, and that I was yelling while they tried diligently to calm me down. Basically the whole report was a lie from start to finish. So 3 police reports vs. Taylor and my statements don't really hold a lot of ground. Anyway, I would really appreciate any amount of help I could get, and I really want this to be a big win for gun rights advocates, and specifically for open carry recognition.

I appreciate all of you offering to help, and when I do contact a proper lawyer I may need the help. I will keep you up to date. I really want to see this one through, for the good of open carry and gun rights in general. I don't want the police to feel comfortable confronting people as criminals just because they have a gun. The one officer told me "Normal people don't carry guns". I want him to eat his words. We aren't a bunch of gun nuts with a nepolean complex. We are a diverse group ranging from metal-heads to business men, and computer programmers to construction workers. We are normal people, and that needs to be accepted.

 

[docwatson]

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Dave Workman wrote:

expvideo wrote:

I'm more concerned about emotional damages from the case. I am uncomfortable to use my second amendment rights and open carry, and I'm affraid of police officers. Not to mention the fact that I was publicly humiliated.

Trust me, if they want to settle it will involve a large chunk of change, a few fired cops, a public appology, and a training bulletin.

Get set for a disappointment. Nobody is going to get fired for this. You most likely will not get a public apology for this, either.

LOL - Do like we do here in VA and have 40, 50, or 100 folks show up at the next council meeting while OC and see what happens then!!

 

[docwatson]

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flyin_ryan wrote:

Sir, as to your story about southcenter, I was one of the Security guards who spoke to you, and am myself a constitutionalist, I have read and spoken to several Tukwila Officers regarding these laws, first of all, there is no open carry banordinance that I can find, and I have had no officer try to tell me personally otherwise. As for the officers on scene, they do have a final authority in these matters during the time in which contact is made. That is not to say they were right or wrong, but when they receive a call about an armed man in a shopping center, they act accordingly. You immediately became defensive when the officers approached you, had you simply shown id and a permit, you would have left with a "have a nice day" from security. I understand that you are not required to show the permit if you are open carrying, however, as I am sure many will agree, if a police officer asks you to show something, the wisest and easiest choice is to comply and file a complaint later. As for me telling you that it was illegal to carry at the mall, that is a misquote, I stated it was against policy and as this is private property, that is a policy in which we have a legal right to make. I believe in and support the right to keep and bear arms, I have many firearms, a cpl, and I am carrying anytime I leave the house. The fact isthat you were stopped for a violation of policy, had you been compliant and polite, you would have been free to leave, as it happened, you were criminally trespassed for disorderly conduct, arguing with police and security, and lewd language, not for carrying a weapon in the open. As for security here, we are unarmed and not allowed to contact anyone carrying a weapon. I am sure had I spoken to you aside from police and shown you the policy, you would have been polite and understanding, this was an unfortunate incident, but please let me give you some advice, arguing with police, and anyone with a badge very rarely solves anything, in the future, be calm, polite and compliant, then file your suits.

- 10

Is there a requirement under WA State Law than any ban against firearms be posted? Handing out a card after the fact is de facto entrapment.

 

[docwatson]

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Parker hasn't solved anything yet - SCOTUS needs to make a final decision next year.

JSK333 wrote:

With the Parker case confirming the 2nd Amendment as an individual right...

 

[JSK333]

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docwatson wrote:

Parker hasn't solved anything yet - SCOTUS needs to make a final decision next year.

JSK333 wrote:

With the Parker case confirming the 2nd Amendment as an individual right...

It's a federal court and it holds sway within its jurisdiction. Regardless of whether the SC takes it up, this decision could be the basis for other similar cases.

 

[joeroket]

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docwatson wrote:

flyin_ryan wrote:

Sir, as to your story about southcenter, I was one of the Security guards who spoke to you, and am myself a constitutionalist, I have read and spoken to several Tukwila Officers regarding these laws, first of all, there is no open carry banordinance that I can find, and I have had no officer try to tell me personally otherwise. As for the officers on scene, they do have a final authority in these matters during the time in which contact is made. That is not to say they were right or wrong, but when they receive a call about an armed man in a shopping center, they act accordingly. You immediately became defensive when the officers approached you, had you simply shown id and a permit, you would have left with a "have a nice day" from security. I understand that you are not required to show the permit if you are open carrying, however, as I am sure many will agree, if a police officer asks you to show something, the wisest and easiest choice is to comply and file a complaint later. As for me telling you that it was illegal to carry at the mall, that is a misquote, I stated it was against policy and as this is private property, that is a policy in which we have a legal right to make. I believe in and support the right to keep and bear arms, I have many firearms, a cpl, and I am carrying anytime I leave the house. The fact isthat you were stopped for a violation of policy, had you been compliant and polite, you would have been free to leave, as it happened, you were criminally trespassed for disorderly conduct, arguing with police and security, and lewd language, not for carrying a weapon in the open. As for security here, we are unarmed and not allowed to contact anyone carrying a weapon. I am sure had I spoken to you aside from police and shown you the policy, you would have been polite and understanding, this was an unfortunate incident, but please let me give you some advice, arguing with police, and anyone with a badge very rarely solves anything, in the future, be calm, polite and compliant, then file your suits.

- 10

Is there a requirement under WA State Law than any ban against firearms be posted? Handing out a card after the fact is de facto entrapment.

No there is not. Besides that any posting of the fact carries no weight under law. The most they can do is ask you to leave.