Gray Peterson
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
Mike, let me clarify what exactly is going on here. Back in 2006, the University of Utah lost the court battle in the state courts when the Utah Supreme Court ruled that state law reigned supreme over the universities "rights". That began the battle with SB251, which would have given the University the power to ban gun carry on college campuses. It passed one house before being fought to a standstill. GOUtah has some pretty good alerts from that time period. University of Utah did not get what it wanted.
During that time, the University of Utah hired it's own outside legal counsel for specifically dealing with that issue. In 2006, University of Utah, via the publications department, stated a temporary suspension of it, but stated that the firearms must be concealed. I sent an email to Coralie Alder, the writer of the posting, advising her that the University's position is completely incorrect on the subject. I didn't hear anything back from here except for a "we'll work with the AG's office over it".
In 2007, since the issue was no longer in contention, the University started using the AG's office again as it's sole legal counsel.
In 2007, several students (with the newly formed "Second Amendment Students" organization) with the University of Utah wanted to celebrate the SB251 victory by open carrying their defensive handguns (which by definition of law is legal, regardless of the recent news events and alerts stating otherwise). They approached the administration and told them of the law, and just to keep the issues to a minimum.
University of Utah PD, along with the administration, told them that they would arrest them and have them expelled. When challenged by this, the University started telling the students that they had an attorney general's opinion telling them basically that because it's a "concealed firearm permit", only concealed carry is allowed and it's illegal in school zones to open carry due to it being "outside of the scope of the license".
Now, the thing about Utah's definitions of school zones is that it's actually more expansive than federal law. This includes K-12 AND post secondary institutions, and within 1000 feet of the grounds thereof.
The Assistant AG who wrote the opinion was in the AG's "educational division", and what's funny about this particular assistant AG was that he used to work for the University of Utah. Rather than immediately reprimanding and/or firing the assistant AG for destroying some of the preemptive work that Senator Waddoups and many others have done, AG Shurtleff went to the Legislature to make it even more crystal clear that open carry was allowed. The University was suprised by this development, supposedly.
Then, that's what the threats started. The University, from my understanding, started threatening the Legislature with another federal lawsuit. Their ridiculous claim was that open carry would be a slam dunk win for them winning the right to "ban guns" using a federal court decree because open carry supposedly destroys the first amendment rights of students and teachers who would be afraid to speak their opinions or grade assignments fairly.
The House of Representatives, led by the House Speaker and Rep. Urquart, decided to cave into the University, and put in their hastily drafted amendment that was likely drafted by the University officials themselves. It passed the House.
Word got spread out everywhere possible, and gunnies all over the state, and some out of state, started calling the Senate leadership, along with Senator Waddoups (who was the primary sponsor of shall-issue in 1995, and sponsor of the bill which expicitly brought all state agencies under the state preemption statute). Senator Waddoups stopped the bill, despite tremendous amount of pressure to cave. Waddoups stood his ground, and the bill died.
Mike, let me clarify what exactly is going on here. Back in 2006, the University of Utah lost the court battle in the state courts when the Utah Supreme Court ruled that state law reigned supreme over the universities "rights". That began the battle with SB251, which would have given the University the power to ban gun carry on college campuses. It passed one house before being fought to a standstill. GOUtah has some pretty good alerts from that time period. University of Utah did not get what it wanted.
During that time, the University of Utah hired it's own outside legal counsel for specifically dealing with that issue. In 2006, University of Utah, via the publications department, stated a temporary suspension of it, but stated that the firearms must be concealed. I sent an email to Coralie Alder, the writer of the posting, advising her that the University's position is completely incorrect on the subject. I didn't hear anything back from here except for a "we'll work with the AG's office over it".
In 2007, since the issue was no longer in contention, the University started using the AG's office again as it's sole legal counsel.
In 2007, several students (with the newly formed "Second Amendment Students" organization) with the University of Utah wanted to celebrate the SB251 victory by open carrying their defensive handguns (which by definition of law is legal, regardless of the recent news events and alerts stating otherwise). They approached the administration and told them of the law, and just to keep the issues to a minimum.
University of Utah PD, along with the administration, told them that they would arrest them and have them expelled. When challenged by this, the University started telling the students that they had an attorney general's opinion telling them basically that because it's a "concealed firearm permit", only concealed carry is allowed and it's illegal in school zones to open carry due to it being "outside of the scope of the license".
Now, the thing about Utah's definitions of school zones is that it's actually more expansive than federal law. This includes K-12 AND post secondary institutions, and within 1000 feet of the grounds thereof.
The Assistant AG who wrote the opinion was in the AG's "educational division", and what's funny about this particular assistant AG was that he used to work for the University of Utah. Rather than immediately reprimanding and/or firing the assistant AG for destroying some of the preemptive work that Senator Waddoups and many others have done, AG Shurtleff went to the Legislature to make it even more crystal clear that open carry was allowed. The University was suprised by this development, supposedly.
Then, that's what the threats started. The University, from my understanding, started threatening the Legislature with another federal lawsuit. Their ridiculous claim was that open carry would be a slam dunk win for them winning the right to "ban guns" using a federal court decree because open carry supposedly destroys the first amendment rights of students and teachers who would be afraid to speak their opinions or grade assignments fairly.
The House of Representatives, led by the House Speaker and Rep. Urquart, decided to cave into the University, and put in their hastily drafted amendment that was likely drafted by the University officials themselves. It passed the House.
Word got spread out everywhere possible, and gunnies all over the state, and some out of state, started calling the Senate leadership, along with Senator Waddoups (who was the primary sponsor of shall-issue in 1995, and sponsor of the bill which expicitly brought all state agencies under the state preemption statute). Senator Waddoups stopped the bill, despite tremendous amount of pressure to cave. Waddoups stood his ground, and the bill died.