WAC

[gregma]

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Here's my take on things for anyone who might be interested.

First. Yes, I'm a member of WAC. Yes, I go to a gun show about once a year. Yes, I am a hypocrite for doing so. I freely admit it, I can be a hypocrit when it comes to saving some good money. Sometimes I have to be for my families sake.

The WAC assumes that *I* am a complete idiot who can't control my firearm. I am too stupid to know any of the gun safety rules, and don't have the IQ to follow them if I were taught.

Is that word-for-word what they are saying? No. But that's precisely what it boils down to. Forcing me to unload before entering directly tells *me* that I am too incompetent to be trusted with a loaded firearm. Period. End of statement.

You might argue from here until the end of time all kinds of facts, figures, what ifs, what abouts, maybes, etc. But bluntly put, they don't trust anyone except a certain few to posess a loaded firearm.

I consider it an insult, but your mileage might vary. Of course I'm willing to put up with being insulted to save a few hundred dollars a year as obviously are a whole lot others. We all have to make our own determinations.

However, I would completely support petitioning for the right to carry a loaded weapon if holstered. And would lend a hand at getting this put together and presented.

Don't hold your breath though, because according to the WAC, the only people who can be trusted with a loaded weapon carry a badge I guess. LOL

 

[UTOC-45-44]

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CC27 wrote:

Johnny Law wrote:

More loaded guns will likely result in more a.d.'s as we all love to play "show and tell".

Are you kidding me? Well we might as well just give up the fight now with this attitude.

Although I don't agree with what Gunshows do I can understand it.

There are just to many "bugger cleaners" that are not trained well enough.

I sure as Hell would not like to stand at a table looking and admiring a S&W 629 with a 4inch barrel and all of a sudden have lead flying thru the air in front of my eyes as a num-nut took out his/her shooter to "show-off" and "forgot" to NOT have the "nose-scratcher" on the trigger.

Better safe than sorry under those circumstances.



Just my .44

 

[Cue-Ball]

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Wouldn't those circumstances be the exact same circumstances that you could find yourself in ANYWHERE? What's to keep someone from taking out a loaded gun and having an accidental discharge somewhere other than the gun show? Why is the gun show a special circumstance?

 

[Gray Peterson]

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Cue-Ball wrote:

Wouldn't those circumstances be the exact same circumstances that you could find yourself in ANYWHERE? What's to keep someone from taking out a loaded gun and having an accidental discharge somewhere other than the gun show? Why is the gun show a special circumstance?

I'm not defending WAC on this, but I've heard two things:

1) Gun handling happens a hell of a lot more, which exponentially increases the chance of accidental discharge.

2) Someone here made a comment about "certain kinds of people" who go to gun shows. Concur with that statement.

 

[Cue-Ball]

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1) Handling of a loaded weapon should never happen, and would be a violation of state law.

2) Why not get rid of the problem people instead of punishing the rest of us?

 

[Trigger Dr]

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Cue-Ball wrote:

1) Handling of a loaded weapon should never happen, and would be a violation of state law.

2) Why not get rid of the problem people instead of punishing the rest of us?

That is a good idea, now just how do we determine who the "problem people" really are?

 

[BluesBear]

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But what about those thousands of us who don't feel "punished" by the current WAC bylaws? What if (heaven forbid) we might perceive adifference and support the rules? (I am NOT saying that I do - just a what if) Are we not allowed that? Or are we all hypocrites simply because you have deemed us to be?

Now I agree WAC may not be perfect. I don't agree 100% with everything either. I have attended gun shows in almost every state and have been a vendor at shows in over a dozen. And I feel that, for the most part,WAC is a pretty well run organization.

Nowwhat about my suggestion of joining WAC, running for a office as a member of the Board Of Directors and then trying to make a change? I guess you just want to sit back and complain and wait for someone else to do it for you? It's almost impossible to make any policychange to any organization from the outside.

If you absolutely refuse to patronise a WAC show then just go to someone else's gunshow. There are dozens of non-WAC shows in the area. Almost every weekend of the year I can find at least onegunshow somewhere along the I-5 corridor.

However, if you still don't like any of the other shows, since NONE of them allow loaded weapons either,then simply start your own show. It's easy to host a gun show. You just have to find a large enough area. I have been to gunshows in Church gymnasiums and basements. VFW/American Legion/AmVetshalls, union halls, Elks/Moose/Shriners halls, casinos, fire stations, fairgrounds, skating rinks, tobacco barns,all kinds of places, even inside school buildings. Just find a place with enough tables and chairs that will allow you to put one on and start advertising for vendors to come and set up. Thenyou can put up a big sign with YOUR rules and everyone there must follow them.

Just let us know when and where so we can have a OCDO table at your show too.

 

[CC27]

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[CC27]

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CC27 wrote:

BluesBear wrote:

But what about those thousands of us who don't feel "punished" by the current WAC bylaws? What if (heaven forbid) we might perceive adifference and support the rules? (I am NOT saying that I do - just a what if) Are we not allowed that? Or are we all hypocrites simply because you have deemed us to be?

Now I agree WAC may not be perfect. I don't agree 100% with everything either. I have attended gun shows in almost every state and have been a vendor at shows in over a dozen. And I feel that, for the most part,WAC is a pretty well run organization.

Nowwhat about my suggestion of joining WAC, running for a office as a member of the Board Of Directors and then trying to make a change? I guess you just want to sit back and complain and wait for someone else to do it for you? It's almost impossible to make any policychange to any organization from the outside.

If you absolutely refuse to patronise a WAC show then just go to someone else's gunshow. There are dozens of non-WAC shows in the area. Almost every weekend of the year I can find at least onegunshow somewhere along the I-5 corridor.

However, if you still don't like any of the other shows, since NONE of them allow loaded weapons either,then simply start your own show. It's easy to host a gun show. You just have to find a large enough area. I have been to gunshows in Church gymnasiums and basements. VFW/American Legion/AmVetshalls, union halls, Elks/Moose/Shriners halls, casinos, fire stations, fairgrounds, skating rinks, tobacco barns,all kinds of places, even inside school buildings. Just find a place with enough tables and chairs that will allow you to put one on and start advertising for vendors to come and set up. Thenyou can put up a big sign with YOUR rules and everyone there must follow them.

Just let us know when and where so we can have a OCDO table at your show too.

OK,first of all I'm not going to give WAC any money. I do not care if they change the rule, it would be nice but that is not my agenda. I just think they should be added to the do not patronize list like every other business with similar rules. And yes I do think that you and anyone else that bitches about other businesses for having similar rules while at the same time giving money to WAC is a hypocrite. One more thing in response too your comment in another thread about me not voting, I am a registered voter in WA and vote in every election.

 

[Cue-Ball]

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Trigger Dr wrote:

That is a good idea, now just how do we determine who the "problem people" really are?

The exact same way we do it in every other circumstance. If someone's actions warrant alarm, they are a "problem". If they do not, then they are not.

If you're safely handling your pistol then I have no reason to be worried. If you are unsafely handling your pistol (or long gun, or knife, or slingshot) then you can be charged under the law, whether the gun is loaded or not.

 

[Trigger Dr]

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Cue-Ball wrote:

Trigger Dr wrote:

That is a good idea, now just how do we determine who the "problem people" really are?

The exact same way we do it in every other circumstance. If someone's actions warrant alarm, they are a "problem". If they do not, then they are not.

If you're safely handling your pistol then I have no reason to be worried. If you are unsafely handling your pistol (or long gun, or knife, or slingshot) then you can be charged under the law, whether the gun is loaded or not.

Cue-ball, If we were to follow that line of thought, then we are once again being reactive...finding the problem AFTER if has happened.

My solution is simple. Just put WAC on YOUR DO NOT PATRONIZE LIST and let us decide for ourselves what course we choose to follow. It would seem you are trying to become the Gunshow cop.

 

[Cue-Ball]

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Being reactive is the only true way to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. "Being proactive" is a nice feel-good statement, but it leads to abuses of the law and loss of rights (and this is the perfect example). Punishing people when no crime has been committed is how we got all of the draconian laws that we have right now.

You're right, I do want to be the gun show cop. I want you to as well. I want everyone who attends these shows to be gun show cops. Isn't carrying a firearm about personal responsibility? Shouldn't we be policing ourselves and educating others so that we're all safe, happy, and able to exercise our rights? If I see my neighbor doing something to endanger himself I would much rather tell him than sit back and say "at least it's not loaded".

Your solution is simple because it only gives two options: 1) go to the gun show and accept a policy that you may not like. 2) don't go to the show.
I'm proposing a third alternative which is to change the policy. Personally, I think this is much preferable to the other two options, though I know it will probably never happen.

 

[Trigger Dr]

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Cue-ball

OK, the join WAC, run for office and change the rules.

I support the WAC and their policy. I think it better to prevent an accident than to hope one does not happen and then react after some person is injured or even killed.

You will NOT change my mind on this. No one is being punished or regulated any more than going into a court room or school.

Your logic seems good, but I find it flawed. Just my opinion.

My LAST post re this topic.

Jim

 

[Cue-Ball]

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I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm simply expressing my point of view.

For what it's worth, I completely disagree with being disarmed in schools and court rooms too.

 

[just_a_car]

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As much as I don't like having to leave my pistol in the car or make it inoperable in the show, I do like the idea that I can be 95% sure that a gun I pick up at the show is unloaded and "safe". The other 5% is the part that never goes away and leads to the first rule of safety: Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

 

[CC27]

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just_a_car wrote:

As much as I don't like having to leave my pistol in the car or make it inoperable in the show, I do like the idea that I can be 95% sure that a gun I pick up at the show is unloaded and "safe". The other 5% is the part that never goes away and leads to the first rule of safety: Treat all guns as if they are loaded.

I am not talking about guns that you would possibly pic up and handle at the show. I am talking about being able to carry a firearm that would never leave it's holster unless a threat is present.

 

[kparker]

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that would never leave its holster unless a treat is present.

Well if that isn't the Freudian slip of the (insert your favorite time period here.)

 

[CC27]

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lmao

I fixed it, thanks

 

[GreatWhiteLlama]

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hmmI’ve been boycotting them for a few years now already because of this. Didn't need a poll to get me to do it. Even managed to get 2 other people to stop attending them after pointing out the hypocrisy that I (and apparently several others) see with the rules.

Oh well, let me know if they change it and I'll start attending them again...

 

[44Brent]

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I've already "boycotted" WAC because of their victim disarmament policy. This is nothing but pure hypocrisy on the part of the people who run WAC.