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With Regards to Rights

Rich B

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,909
Location
North Branford, Connecticut, USA
It is both from a different state and has been distinguished from states where OC is a licensed activity by other district courts as in GeorgiaCarry.Org, Inc. v. Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit AuthoritySlip Copy, WL 5033444, (N.D.Ga. 2009):
"St. John is a case from New Mexico and, under New Mexico law, it is not a crime to carry a firearm without a license so long as the firearm is carried openly, which the plaintiff in St. John did. N.M. Stat. Ann. § 30-7-2; St. John, 2009 WL 2949302, at *4 (“[M]erely ‘showing a gun’ ... is not illegal in the State of New Mexico.”). These cases are, therefore, distinguishable."

The Rassi stop, which was the foundation for the above lawsuit was a situation in which a license was required, much like OC in Connecticut.

CT courts could still go along with the St. John standard, but in light of the standing persuasive distinguishment....who knows....

The Georgia carry incident was not about OC. An officer saw a man with an unholstered firearm who was in the process of holstering it. Not only this, but if I am not incorrect, he was entering an area where firearms were prohibited. RAS derives from this.
 
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emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
The Georgia carry incident was not about OC. An officer saw a man with an unholstered firearm who was in the process of holstering it. Not only this, but if I am not incorrect, he was entering an area where firearms were prohibited. RAS derives from this.

No it wasn't exactly about OC, this issue was regarding a permitted activity in general, but like I said the distinction is based on the fact that New Mexico doesn't require a permit for OC whereas, whatever activity Rassi was engaging in was covered by a license (OC, CC, CC on Public Transport). I believe that at the time the transportation authority had changed its rules regarding carry on their property; he was not arrested or charged.

"On May 14, 2008, Georgia Governor Sonny Perdue signed into law the Business Security and Employee Privacy Act. The Business Security and Employee Privacy Act made several changes to Georgia's firearms laws. The changes took effect on July 1, 2008. See 2008 Ga. Laws 1199. One of those changes involves carrying a concealed firearm in vehicles providing public transportation. Before July1, 2008, a person who boarded or attempted to board a bus or rail vehicle while carrying a concealed firearm committed the crime of boarding with a concealed weapon and the crime of carrying a concealed weapon. O.C.G.A. § 16-12-123(b); O.C.G.A. § 16-11-126(a). But, after July 1, 2008, a person “licensed or permitted to carry a firearm” may carry such firearm “in public transportation notwithstanding Code Sections 16-12-122 through 16-12-127.” O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127(e); see O.C.G.A. § 16-11-126(c). Therefore, a person with a Georgia firearms license may now legally board a bus or rail vehicle while carrying a concealed firearm."

RAS derives thusly:
"The undisputed facts show that Officers Nicholas and Milton had reasonable suspicion that Raissi was engaged in unlawful activity. Officer Nicholas saw Raissi clip a holstered handgun to the waistband of his pants, pull his shirt over the holster so that it was completely covered, and walk towards the MARTA station. The Plaintiffs do not dispute this. On these facts alone, the officers had reasonable suspicion that Raissi was committing the crime of boarding a vehicle providing public transportation with a concealed weapon. A person commits the crime of boarding with a concealed weapon when such person “boards or attempts to board an aircraft, bus, or rail vehicle with any ... firearm ... concealed on or about his or her person or property which is or would be accessible to such person while on the aircraft, bus, or rail vehicle.” O.C.G.A. § 16-12-123(b). The officers also had reasonable suspicion that Raissi was committing the crime of carrying a concealed weapon. “A person commits the [crime] of carrying a concealed weapon when such person knowingly has or carries about his or her person, unless in any open manner and fully exposed to view, ... any ... dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character outside of his or her home or place of business....” O.C.G.A. § 16-11-126(a); see Lindsey v. State, 277 Ga. 772, 773, 596 S.E.2d 140 (2004).

The Plaintiffs say that a person with a Georgia firearms license may now board a bus or rail vehicle while carrying a concealed firearm, and that the officers had no reason to suspect that Raissi did not have a Georgia firearms license. O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127(e); O .C.G.A. § 16-11-126(c). But possession of a firearms license is an affirmative defense to, not an element of, the crimes of boarding with a concealed weapon and carrying a concealed weapon."

...I don't believe that this standard of RAS (at least on this reasoning) would apply in CT however as our statutes are formulated such that Not having a permit is an element of the crime not, as opposed to GA, where having a permit is an affirmative defense. GA and New Mexico would draw parallels between an incident in CT and U.S. v. Ubiles where the defendant's activity was a permit controlled one and the statute formulates the lack of a permit as an element of the crime.

The additional problem exists that Open Carry is unlicensed in New Mexico, and GA declined to apply the St. John standard because OC/CC and whatever else Rassi was doing requires a permit. The question is whether CT would apply the St. John in light of GA....both are merely persuasive...so who knows....
"St. John is a case from New Mexico and, under New Mexico law, it is not a crime to carry a firearm without a license so long as the firearm is carried openly, which the plaintiff in St. John did. N.M. Stat. Ann. § 30-7-2; St. John, 2009 WL 2949302, at *4 (“[M]erely ‘showing a gun’ ... is not illegal in the State of New Mexico.”). These cases are, therefore, distinguishable."
 
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k2zr2

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
11
Location
CT
Uhhh... Navel gazing? Some people would do well to be a little more introspective at times.

You can't even take a compliment and a follow up question without being dismissive, and rejecting anyone's thought/opinion/research but yours unless they agree with you, and at the same time you are showing your ignorance of how our legal system works.

I am here to partake in a conversation, learn something and offer what I know, not be dismissed and insulted, but I guess I should not have expected any more...

:banghead:

Thank you Guntechie.

See Rich B, other people are call you out too. You are an inconsiderate person who will not hear the other side of a good debate.

You might want to look into the Constitution and how exactly it plays in modern day society. The Constitution was put in place to prevent LAWS from being passed that will infringe on our rights. It has nothing to do with you being detained, arrested, or stopped by the police. When you bring up the Constitution it makes you look uneducated regarding today's legal system. It is not an individual doctrine.

Let's here the argument on that statement now.
 

k2zr2

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
11
Location
CT
Am I supposed to take this seriously?

:shocker: There's a shocker.

What is defending you is The Bill of Rights. That document was created after the Constitution to limit the power of the United States Government.

Take that seriously.
 
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John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 5, 2006
Messages
1,777
It has nothing to do with you being detained, arrested, or stopped by the police. When you bring up the Constitution it makes you look uneducated regarding today's legal system. It is not an individual doctrine.

I have tried to stay out of the ongoing discussion here but this is blatantly incorrect. Surely you know this so are you are simply trying to stir things up?

John
 

emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
I have tried to stay out of the ongoing discussion here but this is blatantly incorrect. Surely you know this so are you are simply trying to stir things up?

John

Is he perhaps attempting to imply that constitutional issues are extended from their baseline to varying degrees within different states?
 

John Pierce

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
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Messages
1,777
Is he perhaps attempting to imply that constitutional issues are extended from their baseline to varying degrees within different states?

I don't see how that could possibly be the meaning???
 

emsjeep

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2008
Messages
210
Location
NY-CT
I don't see how that could possibly be the meaning???

Maybe I'm being optimistic? If thats what he is saying it would go something like this: 4th Amendment provides (as applied against the states by Mapp) Level X of protections, 4th Amendment as interpreted by Terry provides Level Y but the prongs of Terry are ultimately subject to interpretation by the courts Leaving you with Z which turns out to be a patchwork of absolutes regarding specific fact sets based on what the courts determine to be "reasonable suspicion."

No single document is able to tell us just what protections we are afforded, the ambiguous language is left to the courts to decide, issues like, probable cause and reasonable suspicion are determined on what is as close to a case by case basis as you will ever see. Perhaps I read into it too much...
 

k2zr2

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2010
Messages
11
Location
CT
Maybe I'm being optimistic? If thats what he is saying it would go something like this: 4th Amendment provides (as applied against the states by Mapp) Level X of protections, 4th Amendment as interpreted by Terry provides Level Y but the prongs of Terry are ultimately subject to interpretation by the courts Leaving you with Z which turns out to be a patchwork of absolutes regarding specific fact sets based on what the courts determine to be "reasonable suspicion."

No single document is able to tell us just what protections we are afforded, the ambiguous language is left to the courts to decide, issues like, probable cause and reasonable suspicion are determined on what is as close to a case by case basis as you will ever see. Perhaps I read into it too much...

Like I said before, the law is open to interpretation, however Rich B denied that fact, called me a troll, and stated I have no idea what I'm talking about.

The Constitution of the US limits GOVERNMENT, it does not grant us OUR individual rights as we already have them prior to the existance of all government.

It is a document to limit the powers of government, not the people.
 
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