YAY, my first LEO encounter

[joeroket]

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I would follow both Bear and SV's advice. They have an AI office for a reason. AI investigations usually have to be signed off on by the chief or dep. chief. Keeping on them will eventually get you somewhere especially if the brass think a lawsuit might be in the future of the city if their officers continue down the path they are on.

 

[sv_libertarian]

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You are an activist and need to start carrying yourself like one. Accepting second best (a sgt instead of filing your complaint) will only encourage them to walk all over you, because you have shown them that you accept whatever they hand you, instead of what you want. Sounds harsh I know, but this is sales tactics my friend. You want something they don't want to give you, so they lower the ante and apply pressure. You can't knuckle under. If they don't want to give you IA, tell them you will settle for the Chief, or that you must insist on making a complaint at this time with the appropriate office, etc...

Keep your chin up, and be firm in your resolves.

 

[DEROS72]

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I have found that a great number of people in my day to day dealing including myself are former military, a huge percentage with combat experience ,and have had infinitly more training in firearms than the average LEo.And arefar safer and more qualified in knowing when and where to use one.This has to stop !who are the cops to think they are the only ones in society fit to carry a firearm. SO once again if you look at this bulletin you will see the Kent city training Bulletin on OC (rt column)and should be sent to the officers attention as well as their superiors as a reminder....

 

[ghosthunter]

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AgainI am the least experienced here.

ButI have found out that you get a lot more play with a letter or email (hard copy) than you do with a conversation. I would not even bother with the Sarg. anymore go up the chain as far as you can go. State your case and any cites. Keep track of every letter you send and if it were me I would send them return receipt required. Clear to the mayor and City Council. I would even send one to the AG just to stir things up. (The AG will respond to you, with not their problem but you will have that on record too.)

Hell I would send one to the FBI and ask a opion on Color of the Law Complaint. If there is a training bulletin for Kent I would site it and ask where it says officers should draw down on you for OC.

Higher ups get more nervous when there is a public record paper trail for the media to follow. This is a low cost option to you that will take there time and force them to give you something in writing. The more they ignore you the higher their possible liability goes up.

After all you are a citizen trying to do the the right thing.

MY Thoughts Only

 

[DEROS72]

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Again see the above post

 

[Bear 45/70]

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A hand delivered letter always carries real weight because it meant enough to you to write the letterthen present it in person.

 

[SpyderTattoo]

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You guys are the best. It's so cool to have so much knowledge available from you all. I'll give that attourney tomorrow and get a quote for a letter. Funny how it's so easy to get sucked in so fast with this activism stuff...

 

[sv_libertarian]

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Here is how my two complaints went down. First time I was detained by OPD was near 5pm. so unable to make a complaint that day. I made a written statement of what happened and posted it here on OCDO. Next day I go into OPD expecting I would want to get a copy of a police report along with filing a complaint. Plus I wanted to see any paperwork the cops had filed. The woman at the front desk was polite although I could tell she fielded requests all day long for what I wanted and was somewhat bored that day (I've done the exact same thing myself, not faulting her, just giving my impressions) after determining I would have to wait many days for a police report I said I wanted to make a complaint. Some effort IIRC was made to get me to schedule an appointment. I very firmly stated I wanted to complain and I wanted to do so now. Low and behold an IA Lt. was found. I made my complaint, and gave a recorded statement.

Second time I went to OPD straight after it happened. I had my gun with me of course and chose to honor the illegally posted "No firearms" sign before the COMMON PUBLIC AREA of the station. The man answering the phone was unable to find an officer who could check in my pistol (again the sign had no legal bearing but I was going to play by their game) finally after about 20 minutes of waiting I told him that a cop had pulled a gun on me and disarmed me and I wanted to make a complaint NOW. Again amazingly someone was found.

I had an informal conversation (and was never allowed into the station proper) and later made a written complaint via email.

I feel it is important to make face to face contact with someone in IA as well as a written trail of your complaint.

Fast forward to now, after all officers were trained on OC, and a letter from an attorney was delievered, and all is well and good with me and OPD.

 

[ghosthunter]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

A hand delivered letter always carries real weight because it meant enough to you to write the letterthen present it in person.

I don't want to stir the bear here. But if you hand deliver you will get no receipt.

On the other hand if you send it return receipt they will either sign for it or sign to reject it. Either way a paper trail has been created. Paper trails make them nervous.

Have you ever tried to hand something to mayor or top cop. You will not get past the desk clerk or the Sarg. And it is way more time consuming for you.

 

[sv_libertarian]

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Email if nothing else. I had some issues with my first stop and got the ball rolling again with an email to the Chief. Never got a direct response, but I did get the reaction I was looking for. Remember the squeaky wheel gets oiled, but be articulate, consistant and reasonable.

 

[Bear 45/70]

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ghosthunter wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

A hand delivered letter always carries real weight because it meant enough to you to write the letterthen present it in person.

I don't want to stir the bear here. But if you hand deliver you will get no receipt.

On the other hand if you send it return receipt they will either sign for it or sign to reject it. Either way a paper trail has been created. Paper trails make them nervous.

Have you ever tried to hand something to mayor or top cop. You will not get past the desk clerk or the Sarg. And it is way more time consuming for you.

Sure you can, just ask for a receipt. This is going to IA, not the Chief or even the Deputy Chief, for crying out loud.

 

[ghosthunter]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

ghosthunter wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

A hand delivered letter always carries real weight because it meant enough to you to write the letterthen present it in person.

I don't want to stir the bear here. But if you hand deliver you will get no receipt.

On the other hand if you send it return receipt they will either sign for it or sign to reject it. Either way a paper trail has been created. Paper trails make them nervous.

Have you ever tried to hand something to mayor or top cop. You will not get past the desk clerk or the Sarg. And it is way more time consuming for you.

Sure you can, just ask for a receipt. This is going to IA, not the Chief or even the Deputy Chief, for crying out loud.

OK

 

[Ravenhawk]

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I had to file a complaint against a Kent Cop before and it was done online but it's not on thier www. anymore? http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/police/index.aspx?id=1288

I'd start here though, at least it will be on record and won't get swept under the rug. the forms are right there to download, I'd print up the Kent PD training bulletin to send back with the complaint as well as a open carry brochure with RCW's highlighted that were wrong/violated.

http://www.metrokc.gov/ombuds/citizen.htm

Whatever you do don't go to ANYONE in the Kent Police they will start a "cover up" with the information they get from you - they are not there to help you in instances like this.

Kent is a buncha "good 'ol boys" from the Police to the Courts I've dealt with them before.

 

[joeroket]

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Ravenhawk wrote:

I had to file a complaint against a Kent Cop before and it was done online but it's not on thier www. anymore? http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/police/index.aspx?id=1288

I'd start here though, at least it will be on record and won't get swept under the rug. the forms are right there to download, I'd print up the Kent PD training bulletin to send back with the complaint as well as a open carry brochure with RCW's highlighted that were wrong/violated.

http://www.metrokc.gov/ombuds/citizen.htm

Whatever you do don't go to ANYONE in the Kent Police they will start a "cover up" with the information they get from you - they are not there to help you in instances like this.

Kent is a buncha "good 'ol boys" from the Police to the Courts I've dealt with them before.

The ombudsman won't help him.

We do not have the authority to investigate the administrative conduct of:

Members of the Metropolitan King County Council and their staffs

The King County Executive and his/her personal staff

The Prosecuting Attorney and his/her staff

Judges and their staffs

Any city, state, or federal agencies

Any private business or non-profit agency



I would start with the Kent PD. If nothing pans out then you have better recourse against them if another incident happoens in the furture. If you get nowhere with them, or do it at the same time, have the attorney write a letter. That will get you attended to regardless of thier thin blue line. Attorney's have a knack for being able to break it.

 

[Ravenhawk]

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joeroket wrote:

Ravenhawk wrote:

I had to file a complaint against a Kent Cop before and it was done online but it's not on thier www. anymore? http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/police/index.aspx?id=1288

I'd start here though, at least it will be on record and won't get swept under the rug. the forms are right there to download, I'd print up the Kent PD training bulletin to send back with the complaint as well as a open carry brochure with RCW's highlighted that were wrong/violated.

http://www.metrokc.gov/ombuds/citizen.htm

Whatever you do don't go to ANYONE in the Kent Police they will start a "cover up" with the information they get from you - they are not there to help you in instances like this.

Kent is a buncha "good 'ol boys" from the Police to the Courts I've dealt with them before.

The ombudsman won't help him.

We do not have the authority to investigate the administrative conduct of:

Members of the Metropolitan King County Council and their staffs

The King County Executive and his/her personal staff

The Prosecuting Attorney and his/her staff

Judges and their staffs

Any city, state, or federal agencies

Any private business or non-profit agency



I would start with the Kent PD. If nothing pans out then you have better recourse against them if another incident happoens in the furture. If you get nowhere with them, or do it at the same time, have the attorney write a letter. That will get you attended to regardless of thier thin blue line. Attorney's have a knack for being able to break it.

While they can't investigate they did take a complaint from me to keep on record when I explained to them the "Good 'ol boy" runaround I was getting from Kent.

It feels good just talking to people that will listen and sincerely want to help you by pointing you in right direction etc ..

 

[joeroket]

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Ravenhawk wrote:

joeroket wrote:

Ravenhawk wrote:

I had to file a complaint against a Kent Cop before and it was done online but it's not on thier www. anymore? http://www.ci.kent.wa.us/police/index.aspx?id=1288

I'd start here though, at least it will be on record and won't get swept under the rug. the forms are right there to download, I'd print up the Kent PD training bulletin to send back with the complaint as well as a open carry brochure with RCW's highlighted that were wrong/violated.

http://www.metrokc.gov/ombuds/citizen.htm

Whatever you do don't go to ANYONE in the Kent Police they will start a "cover up" with the information they get from you - they are not there to help you in instances like this.

Kent is a buncha "good 'ol boys" from the Police to the Courts I've dealt with them before.

The ombudsman won't help him.

We do not have the authority to investigate the administrative conduct of:

Members of the Metropolitan King County Council and their staffs

The King County Executive and his/her personal staff

The Prosecuting Attorney and his/her staff

Judges and their staffs

Any city, state, or federal agencies

Any private business or non-profit agency



I would start with the Kent PD. If nothing pans out then you have better recourse against them if another incident happoens in the furture. If you get nowhere with them, or do it at the same time, have the attorney write a letter. That will get you attended to regardless of thier thin blue line. Attorney's have a knack for being able to break it.

While they can't investigate they did take a complaint from me to keep on record when I explained to them the "Good 'ol boy" runaround I was getting from Kent.

It feels good just talking to people that will listen and sincerely want to help you by pointing you in right direction etc ..

Ahhha. Yes it is nice to actually talk to someone who gives a crap even if there is not much they can do themselves.

 

[maclean]

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DEROS72 wrote:

I have found that a great number of people in my day to day dealing including myself are former military, a huge percentage with combat experience ,and have had infinitly more training in firearms than the average LEo.And arefar safer and more qualified in knowing when and where to use one.This has to stop !who are the cops to think they are the only ones in society fit to carry a firearm. SO once again if you look at this bulletin you will see the Kent city training Bulletin on OC (rt column)and should be sent to the officers attention as well as their superiors as a reminder....

I are a veteran - earned a beret even - and I received far more training in firearms as an LEO than I did in the service.

I received almost zero use of force training in the service by comparison to LEO training.

Be careful with broad brushes, it does not help your cause.

(and yes, I realize that as an instructor I am not an average LEO, and I have accounted for that.)

 

[amlevin]

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SpyderTattoo wrote:

Basically he took his officer's back on this and told me that this is 2008 and people are going to freak out when they see a gun on the hip of a regular citizen, and that I can expect to have guns drawn on me if they are called. I explained that I felt intimidated by his officer by him telling me he would disarm me. We went around and around about this, with him not ever acknowledging that OC is OK. He says it creates fear.

I find it interesting that most LEO's like the one referenced in this post can always stand behing RCW 9.41.270 and claim that OC causes fear, yada, yada, yada.

Why is it that they never seem to have a working knowlege of RCW 9A.36.070 which states:

(1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he has a legal right to engage in.

(2) "Threat" as used in this section means:

(a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or

(b) Threats as defined in *RCW 9A.04.110(25) (a), (b), or (c).

(3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.

A coupleof the definitions under 9A.04.110 are:

(c) To subject the person threatened or any other person to physical confinement or restraint; or

(d) To accuse any person of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against any person; or (Note: this definition no doubt refers to false charges)


(h) To take wrongful action as an official against anyone or anything

These are Gross Misdemeanors and should be charged as by prosecutors. Perhaps more complaints will wake them up.

 

[DEROS72]

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amlevin wrote:

SpyderTattoo wrote:

Basically he took his officer's back on this and told me that this is 2008 and people are going to freak out when they see a gun on the hip of a regular citizen, and that I can expect to have guns drawn on me if they are called. I explained that I felt intimidated by his officer by him telling me he would disarm me. We went around and around about this, with him not ever acknowledging that OC is OK. He says it creates fear.

I find it interesting that most LEO's like the one referenced in this post can always stand behing RCW 9.41.270 and claim that OC causes fear, yada, yada, yada.

Why is it that they never seem to have a working knowlege of RCW 9A.36.070 which states:

(1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he has a legal right to engage in.

(2) "Threat" as used in this section means:

(a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or

(b) Threats as defined in *RCW 9A.04.110(25) (a), (b), or (c).

(3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.

A coupleof the definitions under 9A.04.110 are:

(c) To subject the person threatened or any other person to physical confinement or restraint; or

(d) To accuse any person of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against any person; or (Note: this definition no doubt refers to false charges)


(h) To take wrongful action as an official against anyone or anything

These are Gross Misdemeanors and should be charged as by prosecutors. Perhaps more complaints will wake them up.

Thank you! because some citizen or anti gun nut freaks out because I am standing in a starbucks line for coffee does not warrant undue fear.This would be their problem and not mine.These LEOS need to start reprimanding these people for filing false reports and stop bothering those that choose to exersise their 2a rights.I posted somwehere else;the only ones seemd to be annoyed at myOC are these gangbangers where I live. One I know just got out of prison ,one I over heard him telling someone how he has to be cool because he is dodging a warrant.Why are the LEOS bothering us and not watching these people?