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Yep. Another one of them polls.

georg jetson

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Sep 14, 2009
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Slidell, Louisiana
Claim away. Solid evidence has been presented to the contrary. That you keep ignoring it and claiming otherwise is your choice. I wouldn't call it a wise one.


I'm not ignoring it. But none of it PROVES that evolution is the explanation of the origin of species. It's always wise to consider as much information as possible.

You're confusing entropy and self-organization, misunderstanding the former, and either ignorant of or misunderstanding the latter. According to what most people understand of either one (not much and often wrong), a quartz crystal should be a random pile of silica. It's not.

You're misunderstanding my point. Are you saying that at some point in time quartz crystal DID form as "a random pile of silica."? What does that have to do with the concept that in order for the observable process of evolution to work, information must not only NOT be degraded, but somehow increase randomly? This defies what we observe.

I'm not attempting to debate evolution/creation on an internet forum. It's impossible. What I am saying is that the issue is far from settled. However, if people are so inclined, there's tons of websites dedicated to such things on many sides of the argument.
 
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Tawnos

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Jun 4, 2008
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Washington
I'm not ignoring it. But none of it PROVES that evolution is the explanation of the origin of species. It's always wise to consider as much information as possible.

You're misunderstanding my point. Are you saying that at some point in time quartz crystal DID form as "a random pile of silica."? What does that have to do with the concept that in order for the observable process of evolution to work, information must not only NOT be degraded, but somehow increase randomly? This defies what we observe.
Here you go spouting your own ignorance of evolution and of science. As a whole, evolution is not a "random process" nor is there anything in physics which states that evolution is impossible due to information. A good example is a storm cloud which produces snowflakes. You see the structure of a flake that has made it to the ground, and might ignorantly assume it is designed. However, the flake is not designed, it is the result of meeting parameters that allowed it to fall out of suspension. Even with the randomness inside the cloud, there are certain physical parameters by which flakes may escape. Since you only see those which met those parameters, you miss that the random pattern eventually produced flakes that were good enough to fall. In fact, the reason you get different types of snow is that different formations are capable of meeting the falling parameter. It should not come as a shock, then, to see order arise from chaos in a natural system.

Same with many other observed instances of order arising from chaotic natural systems. It's a common occurrence, because holistically the pattern is not random. In the case of evolution, while the gene mutations may be random, the passing on of those mutations is not. It is by their reproductive fitness benefits that their percentage of expression in the following generations rises to dominance. That constrains the process such that you cannot merely call it "random" and be accurate.

The important thing about the quartz example is that it does form from a random pile of many different things. In some places, though, the conditions are such that quartz is able to form crystals, because there is evolutionary pressure that results in those crystals having an ideal place to form.

I'm not attempting to debate evolution/creation on an internet forum. It's impossible. What I am saying is that the issue is far from settled. However, if people are so inclined, there's tons of websites dedicated to such things on many sides of the argument.

You'd like it to be so that there's some great schism where it's an undecided or unknown, rather than something known with details remaining to work out. Sadly for you, the facts are not in your favor.
 

SFCRetired

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Oct 29, 2008
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Montgomery, Alabama, USA
Try this: Homo sapiens evolved physically from something less than human ages ago. The fact that homo sapiens shares something like 95% of its DNA with certain species of apes lends credibility to this idea. Notice that I did not say man descended from an ape. I did say that man and some apes share a common ancestor.

The Book of Genesis states that God created Man in His own image. God is a spiritual being, not a physical one. Therefore, the creation spoken of in Genesis would be the creation of man, the spiritual being.

I am not a scientist nor am I a theologian, but this is my best attempt to explain what happened. I do believe in a Higher Power and I do believe that there is a life after this one. While I am in no hurry to explore that life, I do look upon it as the Greatest Adventure.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
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Jan 14, 2010
Messages
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Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Try this: Homo sapiens evolved physically from something less than human ages ago. The fact that homo sapiens shares something like 95% of its DNA with certain species of apes lends credibility to this idea. Notice that I did not say man descended from an ape. I did say that man and some apes share a common ancestor.

The Book of Genesis states that God created Man in His own image. God is a spiritual being, not a physical one. Therefore, the creation spoken of in Genesis would be the creation of man, the spiritual being.

I am not a scientist nor am I a theologian, but this is my best attempt to explain what happened. I do believe in a Higher Power and I do believe that there is a life after this one. While I am in no hurry to explore that life, I do look upon it as the Greatest Adventure.

Very well said! My own beliefs mirror yours on these issues.
 
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