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You don't need a gun..

Chris.R.Anderson

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Tawnos wrote:
Atheist here, and last I checked, I'm being one of the most vocal supporters of it being your responsibility to step in. Explain that in your religious worldview.
No one said that because you don't believe in God you are automatically an unfeeling jacka$$. A person can be raised with a conscience and with morality without necessarily being raised a Christian.

CRA
 

Metalhead47

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South Whidbey, Washington, USA
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M1Gunr wrote:
....
popcorn.gif
....
x10!

edit:

now here goes the theological tangent! screw the popcorn, time to dig out the rain slicker & army helmet, fits' bout to hit the shan! :what:
 

Aryk45XD

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Tawnos wrote:
Nathan9493 wrote: Atheist here, and last I checked, I'm being one of the most vocal supporters of it being your responsibility to step in. Explain that in your religious worldview.
You can sit over here with the Nihilist. :dude: It seems we share a bit on this subject.
 

sudden valley gunner

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Even if someone is an atheist you can still agree with many of the principals and observations written down in the Bible or any other religious documents. Many are universal to human feelings and way of thinking.

I would like to ask where was this 15 yr. going to run? Somewhere where they would have caught up with her in a less crowded place and done more damage? So she decided she had enough and was going to stand her ground. She felt helpless and wasn't getting the help she needed from the LEO, Security Guards or other citizens. Law of nature fight or flight, she already tried flight and it didn't work. I fault her none at all.
 

ChuckUFarley

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Renton, Washington, USA
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Aryk45XD wrote:
Tawnos wrote:
Nathan9493 wrote: Atheist here, and last I checked, I'm being one of the most vocal supporters of it being your responsibility to step in. Explain that in your religious worldview.
You can sit over here with the Nihilist. :dude: It seems we share a bit on this subject.
:what:Jesus would have kicked their asses
 

erps

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The statute states two things: whether force is necessary and the level of force that is reasonable. I've addressed both parts, you've attempted to obfuscate by saying others may have reacted differently. So what? Make a point, or shut up.
pointing out that others may have reacted differently was not meant to obfuscate matters, but to point out that when the use of force is judged later on, that the reasonable man standard will be applied to judge whether the amount of force was reasonable. Here are the jury instructions for Justifiable Homicide:

WPIC 16.02 Justifiable Homicide—Defense of Self And Others
It is a defense to a charge of [murder][manslaughter] that the homicide was justifiable as defined in this instruction. Homicide is justifiable when committed in the lawful defense of [the slayer] [the slayer's [husband][wife][parent][child][brother][sister]] [any person in the slayer's presence or company] when:
(1) the slayer reasonably believed that the person slain [or others whom the defendant reasonably believed were acting in concert with the person slain] intended [to commit a felony][to inflict death or great personal injury];
(2) the slayer reasonably believed that there was imminent danger of such harm being accomplished; and
(3) the slayer employed such force and means as a reasonably prudent person would use under the same or similar conditions as they reasonably appeared to the slayer, taking into consideration all the facts and circumstances as they appeared to [him][her], at the time of [and prior to] the incident.

The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the homicide was not justifiable. If you find that the State has not proved the absence of this defense beyond a reasonable doubt, it will be your duty to return a verdict of not guilty.
I think the conditions for sections 1 and 2 have been met. That leaves section #3. You have folks here who would take less than lethal measures and folks here who would use deadly force. Which group is not acting in a reasonable and prudent manner? Wouldn't a jury be asking themselves those questions if it came down to that? That's my point and now I'll shut up.

http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/default.aspx?cite=UU(Ief9eb0f5e10d11daade1ae871d9b2cbe)&db=130417&findtype=l&fn=_top&ifm=NotSet&pbc=4BF3FCBE&rlt=CLID_FQRLT1691211214122&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault.wl&rs=WEBL10.01&service=Find&spa=wcrji-1000&sr=TC&vr=2.0
 

kparker

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You have folks here who would take less than lethal measures and folks here who would use deadly force. Which group is not acting in a reasonable and prudent manner? Wouldn't a jury be asking themselves those questions if it came down to that? That's my point and now I'll shut up.

erp,

What makes you think it has to be either-or? As long as a sizeable number of folks would consider lethal force a reasonable response, then isn't that your answer? The standard is not (under either common law or WA statutes) "can the jury, deliberating in complete safety and under no significant time pressure, conceive of a way that less force might have successfully been used?"
 

Aryk45XD

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Poosharker wrote:
http://www.komonews.com/opinion/kenschram/84239892.html

Disgusting information by metro drivers. If this is true, I now have second thoughts about being on a bus.
Wow, this is alarming... and now the BGs know it. I wrote a stern comment. Looks like this is something that will be forced to change from the tone of the article and comments so far.
 

gogodawgs

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Federal Way, Washington, USA
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Aryk45XD wrote:
Poosharker wrote:
http://www.komonews.com/opinion/kenschram/84239892.html

Disgusting information by metro drivers. If this is true, I now have second thoughts about being on a bus.
Wow, this is alarming... and now the BGs know it. I wrote a stern comment. Looks like this is something that will be forced to change from the tone of the article and comments so far.
Of course the BGs know it, just like professional shoplifters know that store employees are instructed to let them go and not to confront or chase someone.
 

gogodawgs

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Poosharker wrote:
NOW CONFIRMED, she did have a fatal heart condition.

News article by KOMO http://www.komonews.com/news/local/84275002.html

"Clear the area" - SPD

So, to any of you pussies, would you have the nerve to say you wouldn't help to her face?

Lawsuits? Fatal heart condition, this girl could have DIED. Kick in the chest hard enough, would have been fatal.
Correct Poo! And the attacker probably knew this as well as the story's have stated they had a long ongoing feud. If that is the case we have a wolf attacking a sheep.
 

swatspyder

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University Place, Washington, USA
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Poosharker wrote:
NOW CONFIRMED, she did have a fatal heart condition.

News article by KOMO http://www.komonews.com/news/local/84275002.html

"Clear the area" - SPD

So, to any of you pussies, would you have the nerve to say you wouldn't help to her face?

Lawsuits? Fatal heart condition, this girl could have DIED. Kick in the chest hard enough, would have been fatal.
"If this young lady had had blond hair and blue eyes and told police, 'These black kids are following me,' the response would have been different," he added.


Racism... It's the only reason... :uhoh:

Could you imagine the hatred it if was a group of white people attacking a white girl and the two cops were black? Oh god... Where's Sharpton when you need him.
 

OrangeIsTrouble

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swatspyder wrote:
Poosharker wrote:
NOW CONFIRMED, she did have a fatal heart condition.

News article by KOMO http://www.komonews.com/news/local/84275002.html

"Clear the area" - SPD

So, to any of you pussies, would you have the nerve to say you wouldn't help to her face?

Lawsuits? Fatal heart condition, this girl could have DIED. Kick in the chest hard enough, would have been fatal.
"If this young lady had had blond hair and blue eyes and told police, 'These black kids are following me,' the response would have been different," he added.


Racism... It's the only reason... :uhoh:
Too bad it's true.

I can vouch for that.
 

Aryk45XD

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Seattle, Washington, USA
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Poosharker wrote:
NOW CONFIRMED, she did have a fatal heart condition.

News article by KOMO http://www.komonews.com/news/local/84275002.html

"Clear the area" - SPD

So, to any of you pussies, would you have the nerve to say you wouldn't help to her face?

Lawsuits? Fatal heart condition, this girl could have DIED. Kick in the chest hard enough, would have been fatal.
Go ahead and steal the credit for stating her condition after I text you my rant. LOL. I should have made it a point earlier :banghead: Yep... how much longer and faster do you think she could have run?
 

OrangeIsTrouble

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Aryk45XD wrote:
Poosharker wrote:
NOW CONFIRMED, she did have a fatal heart condition.

News article by KOMO http://www.komonews.com/news/local/84275002.html

"Clear the area" - SPD

So, to any of you pussies, would you have the nerve to say you wouldn't help to her face?

Lawsuits? Fatal heart condition, this girl could have DIED. Kick in the chest hard enough, would have been fatal.
Go ahead and steal the credit for stating her condition after I text you my rant. LOL. I should have made it a point earlier :banghead: Yep... how much longer and faster do you think she could have run?
Lol I read about that already, I didn't mention it because I didn't want to bring up too many "what-ifs". But I'll let you have your cred back.

Edited to add:
Could you imagine the hatred it if was a group of white people attacking a white girl and the two cops were black? Oh god... Where's Sharpton when you need him.
Too bad that didn't happen huh? When that does, feel free to say whatever, because that would probably be all you would do.

My issue is your statement that you would not intervene because of your pussy reasons.
 

Aryk45XD

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Edited to add:
Could you imagine the hatred it if was a group of white people attacking a white girl and the two cops were black? Oh god... Where's Sharpton when you need him.
Too bad that didn't happen huh? When that does, feel free to say whatever, because that would probably be all you would do.

My issue is your statement that you would not intervene because of your pussy reasons.
OWNED!
Somebody pass the popcorn.
 

swatspyder

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Aryk45XD wrote:
Edited to add:
Could you imagine the hatred it if was a group of white people attacking a white girl and the two cops were black? Oh god... Where's Sharpton when you need him.
Too bad that didn't happen huh? When that does, feel free to say whatever, because that would probably be all you would do.

My issue is your statement that you would not intervene because of your pussy reasons.
OWNED!
Somebody pass the popcorn.
:celebrate oh wait... :lol:
 

erps

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erp, What makes you think it has to be either-or? As long as a sizeable number of folks would consider lethal force a reasonable response, then isn't that your answer?
I would agree with that. Counting the folks in this thread who said what they would do, 12 used less than lethal force to intervene and 2 said they would have shot her. One of the 2 that said they would have shot her is the same guy who said the Sedro Woolley Officer should have shot a guy in the leg in a deadly force incident, so I find his opinion suspect. Several forum members were calling that guy Boo-boo and a troll. That leaves something like a 12/1 count in this pool of folks who are probably more knowledgeable on the use of force than the average citizen. It's not up to me, it would probably be up to a jury. 12/1 odds don't sound good to me when defining what's reasonable.

edit:

And BTW, IMO when considering how much force should be used, the question should be "how much force is required to stop one girl from assaulting another girl?" I submit that the majority here realize it does not take deadly force to stop an unarmed assault.
 

Kildars

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I would not use lethal force. Considering the assailant was another small framed fifteen year old girl, subduing her physically would have worked just fine. That is a reasonable response. You could draw and order her to stop. Don't shoot though.

The law allows use of deadly force in the lawful defense of oneself, a family member, or any other person, when there is reasonable grounds to prevent action(s) of the person slain to commit a felony or to do injury or harm, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or in the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, on those in their presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which they are.
 
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