You guys have to stop open carying your rifles in places of business.

[SA-TX]

I'm guessing that someone demanded licensed car carry and out of the goodness of their heart they passed unlicensed car carry.
:banana::banana::banana:

Incrementalism works.

 

[Grapeshot]

You are the boss. Two quick items if I may:

I'm not sure how far back you are going for "historically" but they supported the OK bill that became law within the last couple of years and the NRA lobbyist testified in favor of OC before the Texas Senate within the last month or two. That seems like direct support albeit recent.

Even the NRA blog post that was retracted was in reference to LGOC. Since this forum doesn't support LGOC, though we can discuss it, wouldn't that mean the NRA was simply taking the same position as OCDO? Chris Cox's statement, however, says they "unequivocally" support OC and I presume based on the context of his statement that includes LGOC. Couldn't one make the argument that, at the moment, they claim (I use that word on purpose) to support OC more than this organization does? Perhaps we can all agree that if their actions back up those words it will be a good thing that criticizing them would be a Rule 12 violation?

SA-TX

There are 50 states (or is it 57) and an untold number of bills affecting OC and/or unlicensed carry. In a vast majority of those the NRA has been most conspicuous by their absence. It will take more than a few to change that perception.

I sincerely doubt that any group/org promotes and defends the right to openly carry handguns as we go about our normal everyday lives any more fervently and diligently than OCDO.

 

[canvasbck]

I agree with you (about hurting chances) which is why I'm engaging in the debate. I still do believe it is their right however.

BTW - Are you sure it was Lavender? He lost in the primary but you are correct that he sponsored the OC bill in the House the last session or two.

SA-TX

I'm positive about Lavender. He was one of the two. I would have to dig up my link for the other one who spoke out. I'm so bad with names that I call my wife babe.

I know he lost the primary, but until the general, he is still a Rep.

ETA: The other pol was Jerry Patterson, refer to post #300 for the link to the news article that I got the information from.

 

[nonameisgood]

From what I've seen, this stunt was NOT open carry, it was brandishing. The photos I have seen show two rather unreliable looking guys handling their rifles on the premises of the business. One of my cardinal rules of carry in public is to avoid handling my gun.

These goofs are causing problems for us here. I have friends and acquaintances who are saying we need restrictions on rifles BECAUSE of these two guys. Acting stupid seldom gets positive results. The op-eds and comments I have read are saying that this is why we should not have open carry at all - because these two idiots have demonstrated that it alarms people and interferes with normal conduct of business.

Until people stop acting stupid, we won't have respect and will not get our OC. There are better ways to make the public aware of our cause.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

From what I've seen, this stunt was NOT open carry, it was brandishing. The photos I have seen show two rather unreliable looking guys handling their rifles on the premises of the business. One of my cardinal rules of carry in public is to avoid handling my gun.

These goofs are causing problems for us here. I have friends and acquaintances who are saying we need restrictions on rifles BECAUSE of these two guys. Acting stupid seldom gets positive results. The op-eds and comments I have read are saying that this is why we should not have open carry at all - because these two idiots have demonstrated that it alarms people and interferes with normal conduct of business.

Until people stop acting stupid, we won't have respect and will not get our OC. There are better ways to make the public aware of our cause.

...................... Solus, you've been outdone.

 

[stealthyeliminator]

Solus, I don't mean that as an insult, though looking back it probably seems that way.

 

[solus]

stealth, et al., i have steadfastly criticized OCT, leadership's strategy with the LGOC events in establishments, their horrible outcomes & reaction, failed anticipation, nationally to their actions, and leadership's failed response to change strategy until they had stirred up the national antis.

I purposely did not criticize active participants in the events but aimed my comments towards leadership as they set policy.

i have had you use ****** to describe me, and yet when a late comer pops off using unflattering descriptions of the participants and their tactics yet you have the audacity to say i have been outdone....

me insulted, nawlllll lessor individuals have done better, and IMHO you, through your actions, have lowered your credibility below what i would have imagined.

one can only hope Texas' citizens can some day OC, w/o license despite the best laid plans of mice and men.

ipse

 

[stealthyeliminator]

stealth, et al., i have steadfastly criticized OCT, leadership's strategy with the LGOC events in establishments, their horrible outcomes & reaction, failed anticipation, nationally to their actions, and leadership's failed response to change strategy until they had stirred up the national antis.

I purposely did not criticize active participants in the events but aimed my comments towards leadership as they set policy.

i have had you use ****** to describe me, and yet when a late comer pops off using unflattering descriptions of the participants and their tactics yet you have the audacity to say i have been outdone....

me insulted, nawlllll lessor individuals have done better, and IMHO you, through your actions, have lowered your credibility below what i would have imagined.

one can only hope Texas' citizens can some day OC, w/o license despite the best laid plans of mice and men.

ipse

I'm sorry if you were offended. It was meant as a friendly poke, in an attempt to direct myself away from attacking that member for obviously not bothering to learn any facts or consider the history of the discussion. It's additionally incredibly difficult to not point out the misinformation in his post, of which there are at least 3 glaring falsehoods. I refrained from it solely out of respect for your indicated sensitivity to my repeated spotlighting of falsehoods in this thread.

Edit: as I said, looking back, it was a poor choice of words. My intention was to acknowledge the post was there, indicate that there were problems with it, all the while refraining from repeating accusations of spreading falsehoods as to avoid agitating above mentioned sensitivity. I acknowledge in my follow up post that it might seem to be an insult and indicated that it was not intended that way, but I chose not to edit the original post for the sake of openness and honesty. I don't much believe in saying something and then trying to retract, I try to own my words.

 

[Jack House]

From what I've seen, this stunt was NOT open carry, it was brandishing. The photos I have seen show two rather unreliable looking guys handling their rifles on the premises of the business. One of my cardinal rules of carry in public is to avoid handling my gun.

These goofs are causing problems for us here. I have friends and acquaintances who are saying we need restrictions on rifles BECAUSE of these two guys. Acting stupid seldom gets positive results. The op-eds and comments I have read are saying that this is why we should not have open carry at all - because these two idiots have demonstrated that it alarms people and interferes with normal conduct of business.

Until people stop acting stupid, we won't have respect and will not get our OC. There are better ways to make the public aware of our cause.

Answer me this: if it was brandishing as you claim, why weren't they arrested by the police officers that were there?


Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

 

[nonameisgood]

Answer me this: if it was brandishing as you claim, why weren't they arrested by the police officers that were there?

Brandishing in the common vernacular rather than as legally defined. As in "to display ostentatiously." As I am sure you know, brandishing is not defined or specifically set out in Texas law as a crime. And just because something is legal does not mean that doing it in all places and at all times is useful, safe, or beneficial.

For those others who are sniping:
My reply was to the OP and was on-topic - more than I can say about much of this thread.
As to my choice of words, the two fellows in the photo widely circulating about which there is much chatter do not look harmless and do not represent Texans who want OC well. And appearances are important when trying to shift public opinion toward a change in law. I am not saying that appearance SHOULD be a factor in such things, but we all know that it is.

The following is NOT a personal attack, it is an observation about current events:
If the anti-gunners had dressed and posed these guys they could not have done better at damaging our cause. In that vein, I would not be surprised to find that the whole episode to which I refer WAS a setup up by those opposed to OC. If you are one of the guys in the photo to which I refer, and your feelings are hurt, I don't care. I am generally a nice guy in real life and keep my opinions about people to myself, but sometimes the truth is valuable. It's kind of like American Idol auditions, when you can tell that the "singers" were never told that they really shouldn't be singing in public - I'm telling these guys that they should not be doing these things if their intent is to help get OC in Texas. If their intent was to make a splash on the internet and look like a couple of goofs with guns, then they succeeded.

 

[Jack House]

And just because something is legal does not mean that doing it in all places and at all times is useful, safe, or beneficial.

This sounds familiar, where have I heard it before? Oh yes! Every single argument against OC, ever!

The following is NOT a personal attack, it is an observation about current events:
If the anti-gunners had dressed and posed these guys they could not have done better at damaging our cause.

Only people complaining about how they were dressed are people like you.

In that vein, I would not be surprised to find that the whole episode to which I refer WAS a setup up by those opposed to OC.

The following is NOT a personal attack, it is an observation about current events:
I think you're the closeted gun grabber. :uhoh:

 

[Bikenut]

An unabashed rant not directed at any individual(s):

The rabid anti gunner says:

1. No one "needs" a gun.

2. There aren't any places where carrying a gun is "appropriate".

3. There aren't any reasons for the average person to carry a gun that are "reasonable".

4. There aren't any ways of carrying a gun that is "acceptable".

And the gun owning supposed supporter of the right to keep and bear arms anti gunner lite says:

1. No one "needs" a gun.... except for hunting or target shooting.

2. There are only certain places where carrying a gun is "appropriate".

3. There are only a very few reasons for the average person to carry a gun that are "reasonable".

4. There is only one way of carrying a gun that is "acceptable" and that is concealed so no one is scared so much they take away the right to carry a gun. (Oddly those folks never seem to understand that if they have to go get permission in the form of a "permit" they don't have the right... they only have a controlled by the government privilege of a permission slip.)

Both the rabid anti gunner and the gun owning supposed supporter of the right to keep and bear arms anti gunner lite are always ready and willing to tell other people what they consider is not "reasonable", "appropriate", and "acceptable". And both have the same desire to tell other people what they should not do in regards to their rights.

I personally have more respect for the rabid anti gunner... at least they aren't hypocritical about their beliefs.

End rant.

 

[xd shooter]

Can I steal that rant Bikenut? Spot on!!

 

[stealthyeliminator]

Brandishing in the common vernacular rather than as legally defined. As in "to display ostentatiously." As I am sure you know, brandishing is not defined or specifically set out in Texas law as a crime. And just because something is legal does not mean that doing it in all places and at all times is useful, safe, or beneficial.

For those others who are sniping:
My reply was to the OP and was on-topic - more than I can say about much of this thread.
As to my choice of words, the two fellows in the photo widely circulating about which there is much chatter do not look harmless and do not represent Texans who want OC well. And appearances are important when trying to shift public opinion toward a change in law. I am not saying that appearance SHOULD be a factor in such things, but we all know that it is.

The following is NOT a personal attack, it is an observation about current events:
If the anti-gunners had dressed and posed these guys they could not have done better at damaging our cause. In that vein, I would not be surprised to find that the whole episode to which I refer WAS a setup up by those opposed to OC. If you are one of the guys in the photo to which I refer, and your feelings are hurt, I don't care. I am generally a nice guy in real life and keep my opinions about people to myself, but sometimes the truth is valuable. It's kind of like American Idol auditions, when you can tell that the "singers" were never told that they really shouldn't be singing in public - I'm telling these guys that they should not be doing these things if their intent is to help get OC in Texas. If their intent was to make a splash on the internet and look like a couple of goofs with guns, then they succeeded.

If your intent was to make and disseminate an opinion without bothering to learn the facts, you couldn't have done a better job.

 

[JoeSparky]

if your intent was to make and disseminate an opinion without bothering to learn the facts, you couldn't have done a better job.

ouch!!!!

 

[Bikenut]

Can I steal that rant Bikenut? Spot on!!

Please do!

 

[hammer6]

here's a simple solution....texas needs to do away with the prohibition on open carry of handguns, and maybe people wouldn't openly carry long guns. which is the only legal method of open carry. right?

 

[WalkingWolf]

here's a simple solution....texas needs to do away with the prohibition on open carry of handguns, and maybe people wouldn't openly carry long guns. which is the only legal method of open carry. right?

It is that simple, until the NRA and the TSRA get involved.

 

[MAC702]

here's a simple solution....texas needs to do away with the prohibition on open carry of handguns, and maybe people wouldn't openly carry long guns. which is the only legal method of open carry. right?

Exactly.

Texas is anti-carry, more so than many states.

The only carry allowed to them is licensed concealment, long guns, or black powder.

 

[OC for ME]

You guys have to stop open carrying your rifles in places of business.

My way or the highway seems to be clarion call of the CC Industrial Complex. Selfish, myopic, unreasonable.

It is unfortunate that many Texans support the call to not OC.....that way, instead of unifying and supporting OC.