color of law
Accomplished Advocate
And who was trying to entrap Jesus? Answer: PHARISEES and LAWYERS......woe to the pharisees and lawyers.......
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Christianity and self defense
- Thread starter 77zach
- Start date
color of law
Accomplished Advocate
The intent of OCDO is firearms not when the beginning of life begins. When life ends may be appropriate only from how those firearms are deployed, but they have nothing to do with when life begins.
And yes I don't have to participate, but the beginning of life was not the OP's question......
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Thread drift it is naturally occuring in everyday and online conversations. It doesn't bother me at all and I often learn quite a bit by it.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Yep the religious rulers, pharisees and Sadducees.
In throwing out the money exchangers in the temple he was directly fighting and defying the ruling class in self defensive measure for his fellow country folk.
sorry to some, the beginning of life supposedly occurred on the 25th of Dec...eons ago!!
ipse
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color of law
Accomplished Advocate
Oh, that's funny, but of course we all know that Dec. 25th. is a pagan holiday that most of the world celebrates relating only to the beginning of life of one particular soul which was not actually born on that day.
stealthyeliminator
Regular Member
AFAIK, it was a pagan holiday that Christians didn't want to participate in, so they did their own thing. "Their own thing" evolved into what we now know as Christmas. Some, even some here in this thread, apparently, would like to see it turned back into a pagan holiday, but that's beside the point.
sorry, stealthy...theologians have unequivocally determined the Christians failed to do their own thing and in fact...quote:
Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.
The problem was that there was nothing intrinsically Christian about Saturnalia. To remedy this, these Christian leaders named Saturnalia’s concluding day, December 25th, to be Jesus’ birthday.
“In return for ensuring massive observance of the anniversary of the Savior’s birth by assigning it to this resonant date, the Church for its part tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been.” The earliest Christmas holidays were celebrated by drinking, sexual indulgence, singing naked in the streets (a precursor of modern caroling), etc.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htmGood
Christians over the years haven't batted an eye as the holiday begins its monetary entrance around the world back in Oct ~ and you say the Pagan holiday has changed...hummm.
as stated...the myth continues
ipse
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color of law
Accomplished Advocate
To no avail my wife would not buy into this......:lol:
stealthyeliminator
Regular Member
Sorry, solus, I'm unawares of the areas of the country that celebrate Christmas by drinking, sexual indulgence, and singing naked in the streets. But it must be common since you imply that Christmas is celebrated no differently than the pagan holiday was...
Once again I am left wondering if you are drunk posting.
ETA: don't mistake me, solus... The point is that your attempt to devalue Christmas as a Christian holiday by noting influence from other non-Christian celebrations is moronic. For instance, whether or not gift-giving is a custom taken from some other seasonal celebration doesn't devalue Christmas either way...
Once again I am left wondering if you are drunk posting.
ETA: don't mistake me, solus... The point is that your attempt to devalue Christmas as a Christian holiday by noting influence from other non-Christian celebrations is moronic. For instance, whether or not gift-giving is a custom taken from some other seasonal celebration doesn't devalue Christmas either way...
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color of law
Accomplished Advocate
stealth, i am truly sorry your mind is so closed to the influence of early Christian individuals who, in a effort to get Pagan converts, put together the pseudo religious holiday you celebrate today...devalue...nope...it is CHRISTIAN history ~ your religious history...as much as the stories of Moses, the flood, ad nauseam.
quote:
The Christmas Challenge
· Christmas has always been a holiday celebrated carelessly. For millennia, pagans, Christians, and even Jews have been swept away in the season’s festivities, and very few people ever pause to consider the celebration’s intrinsic meaning, history, or origins.
· Christmas celebrates the birth of the Christian god who came to rescue mankind from the “curse of the Torah.” It is a 24-hour declaration that Judaism is no longer valid.
· Christmas is a lie. There is no Christian church with a tradition that Jesus was really born on December 25th.
· December 25 is a day on which Jews have been shamed, tortured, and murdered.
· Many of the most popular Christmas customs – including Christmas trees, mistletoe, Christmas presents, and Santa Claus – are modern incarnations of the most depraved pagan rituals ever practiced on earth.
Many who are excitedly preparing for their Christmas celebrations would prefer not knowing about the holiday’s real significance. If they do know the history, they often object that their celebration has nothing to do with the holiday’s monstrous history and meaning. “We are just having fun.” unquote
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm
stealth...you now know the history of your lie...so please continue to have fun.
want to hear about the Bishop of Myra ~ quote: In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th. unquote
ipse
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Citizen
Founder's Club Member
I've noticed that the threads that generate the most interest are those that debate liberty or religion.
Not counting the zombie-cow thread by THX, of course. That thread and poster are immortal on OCDO!
Not counting the zombie-cow thread by THX, of course. That thread and poster are immortal on OCDO!
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since9
Campaign Veteran
You're missing the point, solus. All civilizations living in sub-tropical, temperate, and frigid geographical zones celebrate a number of festivals surrounding the collection, processing, and storage of food, beginning in late summer and extending through to approximately the winter solstice. After that, if they did a good job of preparing foods and containers for long-term winter storage, and/or were good at animal husbandry and winter hunting, then they did fine. Otherwise, they did not do fine, with many sick and a lot of dead.
Regardless of when Jesus Christ was actually born, early Christians during the early to mid 4th century A.D. chose to celebrate Crīstesmæsse (Old English, meaning "Christ's Mass") on December 25. Whether then, on December 7, or January 6, the difference between which is largely due to which calendar was used, Christian writers during Constantine's reign used the pagan festival in Rome of the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti, meaning "the birthday of the Unconquered Sun", associating Christ instead as Malachi 4:2's Sol Iustitiae, or "sun of righteousness."
All of which is beside the point. Dates do not matter. What else was celebrated on or around those dates does not matter. Whatever pagan traditions were incorporated into the Christmas (festive season) traditions does not matter.
What matters, solus, is that a little more than 2,000 years ago, the greatest gift of all, a savior to cover each and everyone's sins by faith, through Christ's sacrifice on a cross, was given by God to all of mankind so that we might be saved, both here on Earth, and for everlasting.
That's why we give presents at Christmas. It's a reflect of the gift God gave us all.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
I've noticed that the threads that generate the most interest are those that debate liberty or religion.
Not counting the zombie-cow thread by THX, of course. That thread and poster are immortal on OCDO!
Good observation.
They also tend to get the ax the quickest too.
Some seem to want OCDO to be a safe room and to protect them from contrarian views.
snip...
What matters, solus, is that a little more than 2,000 years ago, the greatest gift of all, a savior to cover each and everyone's sins by faith, through Christ's sacrifice on a cross, was given by God to all of mankind so that we might be saved, both here on Earth, and for everlasting.
That's why we give presents at Christmas. It's a reflect of the gift God gave us all.
unfortunately the historical reason you give presents is due to:
quote
The Origin of Santa Claus
Nicholas was born in Parara, Turkey in 270 CE and later became Bishop of Myra. He died in 345 CE on December 6th. He was only named a saint in the 19th century.
b. Nicholas was among the most senior bishops who convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 CE and created the New Testament. The text they produced portrayed Jews as “the children of the devil”[11] who sentenced Jesus to death.
c. In 1087, a group of sailors who idolized Nicholas moved his bones from Turkey to a sanctuary in Bari, Italy. There Nicholas supplanted a female boon-giving deity called The Grandmother, or Pasqua Epiphania, who used to fill the children's stockings with her gifts. The Grandmother was ousted from her shrine at Bari, which became the center of the Nicholas cult. Members of this group gave each other gifts during a pageant they conducted annually on the anniversary of Nicholas’ death, December 6.
d. The Nicholas cult spread north until it was adopted by German and Celtic pagans. These groups worshipped a pantheon led by Woden –their chief god and the father of Thor, Balder, and Tiw. Woden had a long, white beard and rode a horse through the heavens one evening each Autumn. When Nicholas merged with Woden, he shed his Mediterranean appearance, grew a beard, mounted a flying horse, rescheduled his flight for December, and donned heavy winter clothing.
e. In a bid for pagan adherents in Northern Europe, the Catholic Church adopted the Nicholas cult and taught that he did (and they should) distribute gifts on December 25th instead of December 6th. unquote
since9, I am truly sorry the religious leaders of eras past who devised the rituals you currently celebrate and fervently believe have religious significance don't.
the Church 10 centuries after the myth began tagged a pagan tradition and continued the practice of giving gifts in an attempt to get converts...pure and simple...i am sorry as it is a shame the TRUTH is unsettling to you and your belief.
ipse
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drsysadmin
Regular Member
No he isn't. Solus has long demonstrated a negative view of Christianity and shown hostility to some that claim their faith in Jesus. Make no mistake, Solus is a very smart person. He isn't missing the point, he is intentionally bypassing it because it does not follow his anti-faith agenda. He is entitled to his view, whatever it is. My perspective is that trying to have a reasoned discussion with him about the subject is futile. Rather, pray for him, Brother.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
The right of self defense is innate, it exists even in the most debased lifeforms. Mystic religions or the lack of is irrelevant.