Rich B
Regular Member
imported post
PT111 wrote:
Both things are true in my opinion.
PT111 wrote:
Both things are true in my opinion.
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Arrest and Dismissal of Disorderly Conduct Charges for Open Carry
- Thread starter Edward Peruta
- Start date
Rich B
Regular Member
imported post
Did the Chief of Police in Wallingford read the article he was quoted in? Because the article says there is no need to conceal a firearm when carrying. And he sure seems opposed to our fundamental 2A rights.
http://www.bristolpress.com/articles/2010/04/10/news/doc4bc117b97837b804500015.txt
(Also, what a truly terrible article. Just incredible.)
Did the Chief of Police in Wallingford read the article he was quoted in? Because the article says there is no need to conceal a firearm when carrying. And he sure seems opposed to our fundamental 2A rights.
http://www.bristolpress.com/articles/2010/04/10/news/doc4bc117b97837b804500015.txt
(Also, what a truly terrible article. Just incredible.)
JohnGalt
New member
imported post
Rich B wrote:
Wow -- that "article" is complete trash. First, there is the title which does not even describe what is at issue in the article. Then there is my favorite part from the esteemed Mr. Lawlor:
"If students think they will be able to stop a massacre at the school, they should consider the recent U.S. Army base shootings where an army clinician shot several people before being taken down by a local police officer — not military personnel who were armed and already on scene, Lawlor said."
While I don't expect anyone in government to understand the facts of the Hassan shooting, I would expect the reporter to check statements before publishing them with implied approval.
Rich B wrote:
Wow -- that "article" is complete trash. First, there is the title which does not even describe what is at issue in the article. Then there is my favorite part from the esteemed Mr. Lawlor:
"If students think they will be able to stop a massacre at the school, they should consider the recent U.S. Army base shootings where an army clinician shot several people before being taken down by a local police officer — not military personnel who were armed and already on scene, Lawlor said."
While I don't expect anyone in government to understand the facts of the Hassan shooting, I would expect the reporter to check statements before publishing them with implied approval.
Edward Peruta
Regular Member
imported post
This transcript was obtained from the Wallingford Connectictut Police Department and makes very intersting reading for those who know the law and police proceedures. Please excuse the format as it was first scanned from a copy to text for posting purposes. A link to to this document will also be placed at http://www.ctgunrights.com.
This transcript should be mandatory reading for every who currently possesses a Permit to Carry and those who wish to obtain one.
Tape transcription of a telephone conversation between Sarah Dobensky and
Officer Flood on May 17, 2010. Case Number: 2010-10370.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right urn, the first thing; can you just state your f-full name?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh yeah it's Sarah Lynn Oobensky.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay can you spell your last name for me?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes its O-O-B as in boy, E-N as in Nancy, S-K-Y.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay and what's your b-birth date?
SARAH DOBENSKY: 7-14-89.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right and what's your current uh, a-address?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, 91 Camp Street, Apt. 116, Meriden, CT 06450.
OFFICER FLOOD: And where were you born?
SARAH DOBENSKY: In Meriden.
OFFICER FLOOD: In Meriden okay. And what's your uh, home phone num-number ora c-cell phone, either one.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, its (203).
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: REDACTED.
OFFICER FLOOD: And what's your highest level of education?
SARAH DOBENSKY: I have two semesters of college.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right and are you currently employed now?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes.
OFFICER FLOOD: And where, where do you work?
SARAH DOBENSKY: I have two jobs. One at Yale Billiards in Wallingford, CT and the other (inaudible) Mobil in North Haven, CT.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay. All right um, so what I want you to do is basically just tell me everything that you just told me like you said, just start, start at the beginning of ...
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: Of everything that hap-happened last night. Um, I'm probably not gonna s-stop you at all. You can just, you know, go, go with it if there's anything thatneed to stop you and a-ask you in the middle, then I, then I will but urn, if you could just start with uh, with, with what happened last night, um, uh after you opened the doors.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: And you can, you can just start now.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay um, I got to Yale a little bit late; it was about ten of 5:00. I
opened the doors, I was with, with Rob (inaudible) who is the owner's nephew um, went in, there were eight people waiting, gave them tables, um, a few more people came in, um, and then leagues started coming in around 5:30 uh, in the meantime Bobby had gotten there um, I can't remember exactly who whether it was me or him gave out which tables, uh but I know I was serving people in the bar and then I had started playing pool um, one of the other people who works there, Dave came in and as I'm playing pool, he had made the comment about this guy across the room who has a gun and I thought Dave had been joking, I was like you're kidding, turned around and looked and I saw um a bigger man, his shirt tucked in, urn, he had a gun, there was two clips in the back and it was in an orange holster and I turned to my boss, he was sitting next to Dave, and I asked him if that was um, legal, if it was allowed, can he do that, I said why would you do that?
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, and my boss' had no idea and I was like well that makes me
really uncomfortable and I was like especially because the table right next to him,
there's a ten year old boy there. If I were the parents I would be extremely
uncomfortable as well. Um, and so then at that point my boss Bobby had gotten up, he walked over to the table that the guy was on and started talking to him. I don't know exactly what the conversation was, urn, because I was across the room, but he had started to walk away um, later on I found out he was walking away to call the police to find out if it was legal but while he was walking away someone from the league walks over to Bobby and the guy and asks um, him a question. Couldn't hear the first one, but after that got extremely loud and uh, started almost yelling about it and saying um, are you gonna cover that thing um, why don't you get the hell out of here, and just making a very like big commotion.
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: And then at that time my boss had asked him politely to leave.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: And he said.
OFFICER FLOOD: Let me s-stop you for.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: A second. So um, you know, Mark, you said Mark was, was kind of
yell-yelling and you thought that he was causing a uh, co-commotion um.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Now Mark was yelling because it appeared that he was upset with
the way that, that this man was carrying his f-firearm?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes.
OFFICER FLOOD: His gun. Okay. So it all b-basically stemmed from uh, it, I mean in other words, w-what uh, you know Mark's been coming there awhile, have you ever seen Mark um, you know yell at anybody else like that or get that upset?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh, Mark is usually a louder guy, but I've never seen him act like
that.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay so he was, you could tell he was very upset at the way, at this
male who was carrying the gun?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay. All right. All right you can go, go ahead and continue.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay so um, yeah at that point my boss had asked him politely
to leave and or to cover up the firearm and he said that he would not cover it um, but he would leave, he, Bobby ended up telling me that he had said that afterwards um, but from what I could see after Bobby finished speaking to him, he put the balls in the tray and walked up to the front, thanked them, told them to have a good night and he apologized to Bobby who had walked with him um, in the meantime Mark had already walked to the front door and he was on the phone with what I found out was the police.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, Mark ended up going outside and the male who had the
gun went outside as well. Um, I went back to working, playing pool and a few minutes later saw people crowded around the door so I went to see what was going on and Mark was by his vehicle urn, still on the phone and the gentleman who had the gun was sitting on the bench right outside the door. The second bench from the door.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay and you were still inside at this point?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes. Um a little while went by and Mark was still outside, no
longer on the phone. My boss had gone outside, come back in, um, and then I believe it was three cop cars were there with like six or eight policemen.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um, and at that point they had asked people come inside, and
my boss went out there with um, Dave and Steph I believe and they ended up taking him in I guess.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: I, I didn't really pay much attention after that.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right. Um, great. Um, uh, I just want to, I just want to ask you
again, so um, have you ever, have you ever seen anybody in the pool hall carrying a
gun the way that.
SARAH DOBENSKY: No.
OFFICER FLOOD: That, this, that this man was?
SARAH DOBENSKY: I've never seen anyone carry a gun inside the pool hall.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay. Um, all right uh, that's great uh, I, you know I think you gave me everything that's good and um, you know is there anything that, that you think you
want to add or is there anything that you know you would, you would change with, with what you just said? Um, any, anything you wanted to take out, you don't think is, is all that true or, or any, any, do you want to make any ch-changes at all to what you just said?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, no I was completely honest, urn, unless you think that I.
OFFICER FLOOD: No, no, no, no I, I'm just, I'm just asking you because we always do at the end, like, Bob, Bobby did the same thing and I just, um, like, like I said you're not here so you can't re-reread, I usually write down what everybody says urn, but uh, I just always ask at the end, I have them read it and I have them you know, I ask them do you want to add, change or take anything out, um.
SARAH DOBENSKY: No but can, can I ask you a question?
OFFICER FLOOD: Sure. Go ahead.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Well I actually, I have two questions.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um, one is, is it true that you, you cannot like carry a firearm if it's showing?
OFFICER FLOOD: The, what the, what the law is now is it's, it's pretty vague urn, and it doesn't specify particularly whether uh, you're supposed to have it concealed or not and um, the, the man last night was basically urn, trying to push the i-issue of because it doesn't say that you know, he wanted to, to make, make a point and to.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um, and to show everybody that, that you know, essentially he, he can d-do that.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um just because the law says that, that, that it's not, just because the law doesn't say you know you can't, you can't do this, doesn't mean you should. Urn.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: The main point that, that we were trying to get at last night was that urn, what he did whether he was allowed to or not, caused um, a lot of people in there to be ala-alarmed, annoyed, you know, to a, to a sense and.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Unfortunately that, that is against the law. Just the same as if he
came in yelling you know, drunk and causing a scene.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah, I like (inaudible.)
OFFICER FLOOD: You know he's not allowed to do that, you guys are there playing
pool, you're trying to have a good time and.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Essentially he came in and caused, and caused a scene. So
that's ...
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: He was arrested.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Oh. Uh, my that leaves me to my next question is. I, I
understand like seeing that upset a lot of people.
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: But there were a bunch of people like I said who didn't even
notice, I hadn't noticed until someone said something to me.
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um, the fact that Mark went over there and was so loud and um, made the scene, made it into a huge commotion that made everyone in the pool hall notice what was going on.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um, shouldn't Mark be in trouble as well or no?
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: You know what I mean?
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah,no, I, I understand what you're, you're saying but, that
means the, the point of it all is like what I was trying to tell you, what I was trying to ask you before was that, if this guy had never come in wearing his gun like this, the scene never would have occurred.
SARAH DOBENSKY: That's true.
OFFICER FLOOD: Do you see what I mean?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: So it's like y-you know, it, it alarmed Mark enough where Mark
might have even felt threatened for, for his life because like you said, you didn't know this guy and you didn't know what he was gonna do with this gun.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: Urn, so like I said, I mean Mark getting loud he probably should
have called us first um, you know, either way, urn, you know it made, it alarmed p-
people with, with what he was doing. You said you'd never seen anyone carry a gun
like that before in the pool hall and you know, I mean, but let me ask you why do you think, I mean, what did it, what did it look like that this guy was trying to, to do by
carrying his gun like that?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Just prove a point that he could? I don't, it didn't, I don't know,
he wasn't like flaunting it like going up to people and going hey look at my gun, but he wasn't trying to hide it at all.
OFFICER FLOOD: He wasn't trying to hide it, yeah, okay. Urn, yeah that's, that's basically the issue that we have, um.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay. I was just curious.
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah, no, no, no, that's fine, I'm hap-happy to you know, tell you
about it because it's, you're not, I mean if you, you know he had his per-permit and
everything and that's fine, let's say you had yours, I mean would you wear your gun like that and walk into a store or into a church or something?
SARAH DOBENSKY: No.
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Never.
OFFICER FLOOD: So, so you know, I mean it, like you said, you said he was trying to pr-prove a point um, he even did tell us that, that he was trying to pr-prove a point um, it's just unfortunate that he had to pick that place to prove his point, you know,
interrupt. ..
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yep.
OFFICER FLOOD: P-people's pool games and, and all that so.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: You know it, it, it was what it was and you know, we're just
following up with everyone because he's sort of making a, a big, a big deal of it and uh, complaining to our chief that we, that we took his rights away and all that um, but, we don't believe that, that, that we did and.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: We just, we just had the best, we have the p-public's best in-
interest at heart, you know what I mean? And that guy shouldn't have been there,
shouldn't have, have been causing everyone alarmed like, like that urn, but he was
trying to prove his point and he shouldn't have been doing it there.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: So.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um is there anything else that you wanted to ask me?
SARAH DOBENSKY: You, you said he was going to court this week? Or this coming
week?
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah well it'll be uh, I think we, I think he's gonna be going on the 25[suP]th[/suP], so it's actually next, next week.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay. That my, I was curious, I don't know if you can tell me or
not, is he going to court to see if he should go to jail or get a fine or like what is?
OFFICER FLOOD: Um, he's just going to court on the charge that he was arrested for last night, disorderly con, con, conduct um, and that's basically you know what I, what I tel-told you. He wasn't arrested for you know, threatening anybody, he was just arrested for causing annoyance and alarm to people in the p-pool hall.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um like my, my point is that um, you know you shouldn't have had
to go through that last night. You shouldn't have to be on the phone with me right now doing all this, you know if he didn't come there and d-do that, then you wouldn't be, be on the phone with me right now. You wouldn't be having to do all this. You, you know what I mean?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah I understand.
OFFICER FLOOD: So. I mean he, he's, he's trying to tell us that you know he
shouldn't have been arrested and all that, but for, we, you know unfortunately we have to prove our point.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: And y-you know, go back and interview everybody and, and just to show that you know, he did enough people called us that were worried about it so we have to go down and take ac-action so.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: That's what we had, we had to do.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: Urn, is there anything else?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, no but I, I hope I helped.
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah, yeah, no you, you did urn, definitely, definitely a big help urn, I just need to read you one part, it's just the bottom of the, after we give someone a st- statement, they usually read this to themselves, but since you're not urn, here, you're just gonna sw-swear to this over the phone.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um, cuz like you, like you said you know, everything you said was
the truth you don't have any reason to lie to me, urn, but I just have to read this to you. Um, do you swear that the statement you just gave is the truth to the best of your know- knowledge. You fully understand that if you make a false statement that is untrue which is to intend to mislead a law enforcement officer in, in the performance of this official fun-function uh you will be in violation of section 53a-157b of the Connecticut General Statutes entitled False Statement. Um, do you understand all that?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes I do.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay so do you swear that everything you just told me was the
truth?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes I do.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay. All right, Sarah thank you so much for taking the time and t-
talking to me on the phone, um, I don't think I have anything else f-for you. If I do, urn, I will give you a call urn, but I don't, I don't think I'll need anything from you anymore.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right?
SARAH DOBENSKY: All right well thank you (inaudible.)
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay thank you.
SARAH DOBENSKY: You're welcome.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right bye bye.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Bye.
This transcript was obtained from the Wallingford Connectictut Police Department and makes very intersting reading for those who know the law and police proceedures. Please excuse the format as it was first scanned from a copy to text for posting purposes. A link to to this document will also be placed at http://www.ctgunrights.com.
This transcript should be mandatory reading for every who currently possesses a Permit to Carry and those who wish to obtain one.
Tape transcription of a telephone conversation between Sarah Dobensky and
Officer Flood on May 17, 2010. Case Number: 2010-10370.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right urn, the first thing; can you just state your f-full name?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh yeah it's Sarah Lynn Oobensky.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay can you spell your last name for me?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes its O-O-B as in boy, E-N as in Nancy, S-K-Y.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay and what's your b-birth date?
SARAH DOBENSKY: 7-14-89.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right and what's your current uh, a-address?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, 91 Camp Street, Apt. 116, Meriden, CT 06450.
OFFICER FLOOD: And where were you born?
SARAH DOBENSKY: In Meriden.
OFFICER FLOOD: In Meriden okay. And what's your uh, home phone num-number ora c-cell phone, either one.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, its (203).
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: REDACTED.
OFFICER FLOOD: And what's your highest level of education?
SARAH DOBENSKY: I have two semesters of college.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right and are you currently employed now?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes.
OFFICER FLOOD: And where, where do you work?
SARAH DOBENSKY: I have two jobs. One at Yale Billiards in Wallingford, CT and the other (inaudible) Mobil in North Haven, CT.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay. All right um, so what I want you to do is basically just tell me everything that you just told me like you said, just start, start at the beginning of ...
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: Of everything that hap-happened last night. Um, I'm probably not gonna s-stop you at all. You can just, you know, go, go with it if there's anything thatneed to stop you and a-ask you in the middle, then I, then I will but urn, if you could just start with uh, with, with what happened last night, um, uh after you opened the doors.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: And you can, you can just start now.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay um, I got to Yale a little bit late; it was about ten of 5:00. I
opened the doors, I was with, with Rob (inaudible) who is the owner's nephew um, went in, there were eight people waiting, gave them tables, um, a few more people came in, um, and then leagues started coming in around 5:30 uh, in the meantime Bobby had gotten there um, I can't remember exactly who whether it was me or him gave out which tables, uh but I know I was serving people in the bar and then I had started playing pool um, one of the other people who works there, Dave came in and as I'm playing pool, he had made the comment about this guy across the room who has a gun and I thought Dave had been joking, I was like you're kidding, turned around and looked and I saw um a bigger man, his shirt tucked in, urn, he had a gun, there was two clips in the back and it was in an orange holster and I turned to my boss, he was sitting next to Dave, and I asked him if that was um, legal, if it was allowed, can he do that, I said why would you do that?
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, and my boss' had no idea and I was like well that makes me
really uncomfortable and I was like especially because the table right next to him,
there's a ten year old boy there. If I were the parents I would be extremely
uncomfortable as well. Um, and so then at that point my boss Bobby had gotten up, he walked over to the table that the guy was on and started talking to him. I don't know exactly what the conversation was, urn, because I was across the room, but he had started to walk away um, later on I found out he was walking away to call the police to find out if it was legal but while he was walking away someone from the league walks over to Bobby and the guy and asks um, him a question. Couldn't hear the first one, but after that got extremely loud and uh, started almost yelling about it and saying um, are you gonna cover that thing um, why don't you get the hell out of here, and just making a very like big commotion.
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: And then at that time my boss had asked him politely to leave.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: And he said.
OFFICER FLOOD: Let me s-stop you for.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: A second. So um, you know, Mark, you said Mark was, was kind of
yell-yelling and you thought that he was causing a uh, co-commotion um.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Now Mark was yelling because it appeared that he was upset with
the way that, that this man was carrying his f-firearm?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes.
OFFICER FLOOD: His gun. Okay. So it all b-basically stemmed from uh, it, I mean in other words, w-what uh, you know Mark's been coming there awhile, have you ever seen Mark um, you know yell at anybody else like that or get that upset?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh, Mark is usually a louder guy, but I've never seen him act like
that.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay so he was, you could tell he was very upset at the way, at this
male who was carrying the gun?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay. All right. All right you can go, go ahead and continue.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay so um, yeah at that point my boss had asked him politely
to leave and or to cover up the firearm and he said that he would not cover it um, but he would leave, he, Bobby ended up telling me that he had said that afterwards um, but from what I could see after Bobby finished speaking to him, he put the balls in the tray and walked up to the front, thanked them, told them to have a good night and he apologized to Bobby who had walked with him um, in the meantime Mark had already walked to the front door and he was on the phone with what I found out was the police.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, Mark ended up going outside and the male who had the
gun went outside as well. Um, I went back to working, playing pool and a few minutes later saw people crowded around the door so I went to see what was going on and Mark was by his vehicle urn, still on the phone and the gentleman who had the gun was sitting on the bench right outside the door. The second bench from the door.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay and you were still inside at this point?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes. Um a little while went by and Mark was still outside, no
longer on the phone. My boss had gone outside, come back in, um, and then I believe it was three cop cars were there with like six or eight policemen.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um, and at that point they had asked people come inside, and
my boss went out there with um, Dave and Steph I believe and they ended up taking him in I guess.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: I, I didn't really pay much attention after that.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right. Um, great. Um, uh, I just want to, I just want to ask you
again, so um, have you ever, have you ever seen anybody in the pool hall carrying a
gun the way that.
SARAH DOBENSKY: No.
OFFICER FLOOD: That, this, that this man was?
SARAH DOBENSKY: I've never seen anyone carry a gun inside the pool hall.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay. Um, all right uh, that's great uh, I, you know I think you gave me everything that's good and um, you know is there anything that, that you think you
want to add or is there anything that you know you would, you would change with, with what you just said? Um, any, anything you wanted to take out, you don't think is, is all that true or, or any, any, do you want to make any ch-changes at all to what you just said?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, no I was completely honest, urn, unless you think that I.
OFFICER FLOOD: No, no, no, no I, I'm just, I'm just asking you because we always do at the end, like, Bob, Bobby did the same thing and I just, um, like, like I said you're not here so you can't re-reread, I usually write down what everybody says urn, but uh, I just always ask at the end, I have them read it and I have them you know, I ask them do you want to add, change or take anything out, um.
SARAH DOBENSKY: No but can, can I ask you a question?
OFFICER FLOOD: Sure. Go ahead.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Well I actually, I have two questions.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um, one is, is it true that you, you cannot like carry a firearm if it's showing?
OFFICER FLOOD: The, what the, what the law is now is it's, it's pretty vague urn, and it doesn't specify particularly whether uh, you're supposed to have it concealed or not and um, the, the man last night was basically urn, trying to push the i-issue of because it doesn't say that you know, he wanted to, to make, make a point and to.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um, and to show everybody that, that you know, essentially he, he can d-do that.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um just because the law says that, that, that it's not, just because the law doesn't say you know you can't, you can't do this, doesn't mean you should. Urn.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: The main point that, that we were trying to get at last night was that urn, what he did whether he was allowed to or not, caused um, a lot of people in there to be ala-alarmed, annoyed, you know, to a, to a sense and.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Unfortunately that, that is against the law. Just the same as if he
came in yelling you know, drunk and causing a scene.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah, I like (inaudible.)
OFFICER FLOOD: You know he's not allowed to do that, you guys are there playing
pool, you're trying to have a good time and.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Essentially he came in and caused, and caused a scene. So
that's ...
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: He was arrested.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Oh. Uh, my that leaves me to my next question is. I, I
understand like seeing that upset a lot of people.
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: But there were a bunch of people like I said who didn't even
notice, I hadn't noticed until someone said something to me.
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um, the fact that Mark went over there and was so loud and um, made the scene, made it into a huge commotion that made everyone in the pool hall notice what was going on.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um, shouldn't Mark be in trouble as well or no?
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: You know what I mean?
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah,no, I, I understand what you're, you're saying but, that
means the, the point of it all is like what I was trying to tell you, what I was trying to ask you before was that, if this guy had never come in wearing his gun like this, the scene never would have occurred.
SARAH DOBENSKY: That's true.
OFFICER FLOOD: Do you see what I mean?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: So it's like y-you know, it, it alarmed Mark enough where Mark
might have even felt threatened for, for his life because like you said, you didn't know this guy and you didn't know what he was gonna do with this gun.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: Urn, so like I said, I mean Mark getting loud he probably should
have called us first um, you know, either way, urn, you know it made, it alarmed p-
people with, with what he was doing. You said you'd never seen anyone carry a gun
like that before in the pool hall and you know, I mean, but let me ask you why do you think, I mean, what did it, what did it look like that this guy was trying to, to do by
carrying his gun like that?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Just prove a point that he could? I don't, it didn't, I don't know,
he wasn't like flaunting it like going up to people and going hey look at my gun, but he wasn't trying to hide it at all.
OFFICER FLOOD: He wasn't trying to hide it, yeah, okay. Urn, yeah that's, that's basically the issue that we have, um.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay. I was just curious.
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah, no, no, no, that's fine, I'm hap-happy to you know, tell you
about it because it's, you're not, I mean if you, you know he had his per-permit and
everything and that's fine, let's say you had yours, I mean would you wear your gun like that and walk into a store or into a church or something?
SARAH DOBENSKY: No.
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Never.
OFFICER FLOOD: So, so you know, I mean it, like you said, you said he was trying to pr-prove a point um, he even did tell us that, that he was trying to pr-prove a point um, it's just unfortunate that he had to pick that place to prove his point, you know,
interrupt. ..
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yep.
OFFICER FLOOD: P-people's pool games and, and all that so.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: You know it, it, it was what it was and you know, we're just
following up with everyone because he's sort of making a, a big, a big deal of it and uh, complaining to our chief that we, that we took his rights away and all that um, but, we don't believe that, that, that we did and.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: We just, we just had the best, we have the p-public's best in-
interest at heart, you know what I mean? And that guy shouldn't have been there,
shouldn't have, have been causing everyone alarmed like, like that urn, but he was
trying to prove his point and he shouldn't have been doing it there.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: So.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Um.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um is there anything else that you wanted to ask me?
SARAH DOBENSKY: You, you said he was going to court this week? Or this coming
week?
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah well it'll be uh, I think we, I think he's gonna be going on the 25[suP]th[/suP], so it's actually next, next week.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay. That my, I was curious, I don't know if you can tell me or
not, is he going to court to see if he should go to jail or get a fine or like what is?
OFFICER FLOOD: Um, he's just going to court on the charge that he was arrested for last night, disorderly con, con, conduct um, and that's basically you know what I, what I tel-told you. He wasn't arrested for you know, threatening anybody, he was just arrested for causing annoyance and alarm to people in the p-pool hall.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um like my, my point is that um, you know you shouldn't have had
to go through that last night. You shouldn't have to be on the phone with me right now doing all this, you know if he didn't come there and d-do that, then you wouldn't be, be on the phone with me right now. You wouldn't be having to do all this. You, you know what I mean?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah I understand.
OFFICER FLOOD: So. I mean he, he's, he's trying to tell us that you know he
shouldn't have been arrested and all that, but for, we, you know unfortunately we have to prove our point.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: And y-you know, go back and interview everybody and, and just to show that you know, he did enough people called us that were worried about it so we have to go down and take ac-action so.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Uh-huh.
OFFICER FLOOD: That's what we had, we had to do.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: Urn, is there anything else?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, no but I, I hope I helped.
OFFICER FLOOD: Yeah, yeah, no you, you did urn, definitely, definitely a big help urn, I just need to read you one part, it's just the bottom of the, after we give someone a st- statement, they usually read this to themselves, but since you're not urn, here, you're just gonna sw-swear to this over the phone.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: Um, cuz like you, like you said you know, everything you said was
the truth you don't have any reason to lie to me, urn, but I just have to read this to you. Um, do you swear that the statement you just gave is the truth to the best of your know- knowledge. You fully understand that if you make a false statement that is untrue which is to intend to mislead a law enforcement officer in, in the performance of this official fun-function uh you will be in violation of section 53a-157b of the Connecticut General Statutes entitled False Statement. Um, do you understand all that?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes I do.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay so do you swear that everything you just told me was the
truth?
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yes I do.
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay. All right, Sarah thank you so much for taking the time and t-
talking to me on the phone, um, I don't think I have anything else f-for you. If I do, urn, I will give you a call urn, but I don't, I don't think I'll need anything from you anymore.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right?
SARAH DOBENSKY: All right well thank you (inaudible.)
OFFICER FLOOD: Okay thank you.
SARAH DOBENSKY: You're welcome.
OFFICER FLOOD: All right bye bye.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Bye.
imported post
Oh man that transcript goes down hill right after the officer made this incredible comment.
WTF? What is this a police state? We can now only do what Officer Flood tells us we can do?
That statementshows one of the main problem with both LEO andpeople these days. They've got the entire concept of laws turned around. Theyassume we can only do what the law says we can do,rather than, we can do anythingwe want
except what they law says we cannot do. :banghead:
And the entire discussion between the officer and the witness about not having tobeing "afraid" is unbelievable. I wonder what the police would have done if she had called and said she was afraid of a largeman,going about his business, without the firearm?It basically points out, whichhas been said from time to time,that even though something is perfectly legal to do the officers will still arrest you and let the courts/lawyers sort it out.
Oh man that transcript goes down hill right after the officer made this incredible comment.
WTF? What is this a police state? We can now only do what Officer Flood tells us we can do?
That statementshows one of the main problem with both LEO andpeople these days. They've got the entire concept of laws turned around. Theyassume we can only do what the law says we can do,rather than, we can do anythingwe want
except what they law says we cannot do. :banghead:
And the entire discussion between the officer and the witness about not having tobeing "afraid" is unbelievable. I wonder what the police would have done if she had called and said she was afraid of a largeman,going about his business, without the firearm?It basically points out, whichhas been said from time to time,that even though something is perfectly legal to do the officers will still arrest you and let the courts/lawyers sort it out.
Edward Peruta
Regular Member
imported post
What everyone needs to realize is the arrest for Disorderly Conduct took place on the evening of May 16th, and this statement was taken after the arrest and after a complaint was made to higher authority regarding the incident.
The responding officers especiallythe arresting officer should NEVER have been allowed to speak with or influence witnessess who could shed light on exactly what happened.
There is much more to this incident that is yet to be told. This incident is a perfect learning topic for all who enforce and live by the laws pertaining to firearms.
Personally I fault the State of Connecticut, Department of Public Safetyand the current Attorney General for not providing clear and specific instruction to all involved.
It appears to me that Officer Flood was attempting to coach a potential witness to the arrest prior to her being interviewed as part of an internal affairs investigation into the incident.
The Wallinford Police Department has much to learn about firearms law in Connecticut and should NEVER offer editorial or personal commentswhich influence potential witnessess.
This is the same department that enjoys having theirChiefcurrently serving as the President of the Connecticut Police Chiefs Accociation.
President
Douglas Dortenzio (2011)
Wallingford Police Department
135 North Main Street
Wallingford, CT 06492
(203) 294-2828
Fax: (203) 294-2858
Link to PDF Copy of Transcript: http://www.ctgunrights.com/00.Docs/Yale%20Billards%20PDF0001.pdf
What everyone needs to realize is the arrest for Disorderly Conduct took place on the evening of May 16th, and this statement was taken after the arrest and after a complaint was made to higher authority regarding the incident.
The responding officers especiallythe arresting officer should NEVER have been allowed to speak with or influence witnessess who could shed light on exactly what happened.
There is much more to this incident that is yet to be told. This incident is a perfect learning topic for all who enforce and live by the laws pertaining to firearms.
Personally I fault the State of Connecticut, Department of Public Safetyand the current Attorney General for not providing clear and specific instruction to all involved.
It appears to me that Officer Flood was attempting to coach a potential witness to the arrest prior to her being interviewed as part of an internal affairs investigation into the incident.
The Wallinford Police Department has much to learn about firearms law in Connecticut and should NEVER offer editorial or personal commentswhich influence potential witnessess.
This is the same department that enjoys having theirChiefcurrently serving as the President of the Connecticut Police Chiefs Accociation.
President
Douglas Dortenzio (2011)
Wallingford Police Department
135 North Main Street
Wallingford, CT 06492
(203) 294-2828
Fax: (203) 294-2858
Link to PDF Copy of Transcript: http://www.ctgunrights.com/00.Docs/Yale%20Billards%20PDF0001.pdf
Edward Peruta
Regular Member
imported post
The statement was taken the day after the arrest on May 17th, the court dismssed the charge on May 25th and the rest is history.
The statement was taken the day after the arrest on May 17th, the court dismssed the charge on May 25th and the rest is history.
dcmdon
Regular Member
imported post
Ed,
I know I'm going to draw a lot of flames here, but it sounds like the manager asked Rich to either conceal the gun or leave.
That seems to be within the manager's right (CGS § 29-28(e))
I understand that everything else was handled badly. But it seems that Richard B, didn't quite know that part of the law.
Rich - no offense intended. We are all here to learn. Please straighten me out if I missed something.
Don
Ed,
I know I'm going to draw a lot of flames here, but it sounds like the manager asked Rich to either conceal the gun or leave.
That seems to be within the manager's right (CGS § 29-28(e))
I understand that everything else was handled badly. But it seems that Richard B, didn't quite know that part of the law.
Rich - no offense intended. We are all here to learn. Please straighten me out if I missed something.
Don
dcmdon
Regular Member
imported post
Ok, I've read a bunch of RichB's posts and he clearly seems to understand the law and his rights.
So what am I missing here?
Rich - Were you asked by the manager to either conceal or leave?
Did you refuse that request?
If so, you are guilty of something. I don't think its disorderly conduct. Maybe trespassing.
This is where things get interesting for us gun owners, philosophically. I actually agree with that part of the law. I do believe that private property owners have the right to refuse entry to anyone they want.
I get testy when government entities start prohibiting me from carrying, but private property is different.
Ok, I've read a bunch of RichB's posts and he clearly seems to understand the law and his rights.
So what am I missing here?
Rich - Were you asked by the manager to either conceal or leave?
Did you refuse that request?
If so, you are guilty of something. I don't think its disorderly conduct. Maybe trespassing.
This is where things get interesting for us gun owners, philosophically. I actually agree with that part of the law. I do believe that private property owners have the right to refuse entry to anyone they want.
I get testy when government entities start prohibiting me from carrying, but private property is different.
Edward Peruta
Regular Member
imported post
To DCMDON,
Your confusion is expected.
I spoke with the owner and two witnesses the evening of May 17th, the day after Rich's arrest. Both tell a completely different story.
If you carefully read the owners statement you will see that he asked Rich to cover his weapon and when Rich refused, he immediately offered to leave Yale Billiards.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay um, I got to Yale a little bit late; it was about ten of 5:00. I opened the doors, I was with, with Rob (inaudible) who is the owner's nephew um, went in, there were eight people waiting, gave them tables, um, a few more people came in, um, and then leagues started coming in around 5:30 uh, in the meantime Bobby had gotten there um, I can't remember exactly who whether it was me or him gave out which tables, uh but I know I was serving people in the bar and then I had started playing pool um, one of the other people who works there, Dave came in and as I'm playing pool, he had made the comment about this guy across the room who has a gun and I thought Dave had been joking, I was like you're kidding, turned around and looked and I saw um a bigger man, his shirt tucked in, urn, he had a gun, there was two clips in the back and it was in an orange holster and I turned to my boss, he was sitting next to Dave, and I asked him if that was um, legal, if it was allowed, can he do that, I said why would you do that?
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, and my boss' had no idea and I was like well that makes me really uncomfortable and I was like especially because the table right next to him, there's a ten year old boy there. If I were the parents I would be extremely uncomfortable as well. Um, and so then at that point my boss Bobby had gotten up, he walked over to the table that the guy was on and started talking to him. I don't know exactly what the conversation was, urn, because I was across the room, but he had started to walk away um, later on I found out he was walking away to call the police to find out if it was legal but while he was walking away someone from the league walks over to Bobby and the guy and asks um, him a question. Couldn't hear the first one, but after that got extremely loud and uh, started almost yelling about it and saying um, are you gonna cover that thing um, why don't you get the hell out of here, and just making a very like big commotion.
The owner 's signed statement verifies that he allowed Rich to remain while he left to contact Wallingford Police to verify that Open Carry was indeed legal. The owner is a permit holder and had been taught that Open Carry was illegal as part of the Permit process.
It was only after the owner walked away fromRich to make the call thatMr. Mark Vanaman, (also a Connecticut Permitholder),approached Richto demand he conceal his weapon, and began to yell or talk loud enough that is was consideredboisterous and causingany and allcommotion and alarm.
The inconsistencies that have beenfound in the written documents tell the real story.
I made it a point to contact and discuss this situationwith theowner who verifies everything Rich did that night, especially the fact that Rich initially offered to leave the Pool Hall immediately.
I have attempted to insert a link to the owner's handwritten statement but this board will not properly allow me to do so.
So if you type http://www. and this text into your browser you will find the statement on ctgunrights.com.
ctgunrights.com/01.News/Billiard%20Hall%20Owner's%20statement0001.pdf
More information regarding this incident will become public as time passes.
To DCMDON,
Your confusion is expected.
I spoke with the owner and two witnesses the evening of May 17th, the day after Rich's arrest. Both tell a completely different story.
If you carefully read the owners statement you will see that he asked Rich to cover his weapon and when Rich refused, he immediately offered to leave Yale Billiards.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Okay um, I got to Yale a little bit late; it was about ten of 5:00. I opened the doors, I was with, with Rob (inaudible) who is the owner's nephew um, went in, there were eight people waiting, gave them tables, um, a few more people came in, um, and then leagues started coming in around 5:30 uh, in the meantime Bobby had gotten there um, I can't remember exactly who whether it was me or him gave out which tables, uh but I know I was serving people in the bar and then I had started playing pool um, one of the other people who works there, Dave came in and as I'm playing pool, he had made the comment about this guy across the room who has a gun and I thought Dave had been joking, I was like you're kidding, turned around and looked and I saw um a bigger man, his shirt tucked in, urn, he had a gun, there was two clips in the back and it was in an orange holster and I turned to my boss, he was sitting next to Dave, and I asked him if that was um, legal, if it was allowed, can he do that, I said why would you do that?
OFFICER FLOOD: Uh-huh.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Urn, and my boss' had no idea and I was like well that makes me really uncomfortable and I was like especially because the table right next to him, there's a ten year old boy there. If I were the parents I would be extremely uncomfortable as well. Um, and so then at that point my boss Bobby had gotten up, he walked over to the table that the guy was on and started talking to him. I don't know exactly what the conversation was, urn, because I was across the room, but he had started to walk away um, later on I found out he was walking away to call the police to find out if it was legal but while he was walking away someone from the league walks over to Bobby and the guy and asks um, him a question. Couldn't hear the first one, but after that got extremely loud and uh, started almost yelling about it and saying um, are you gonna cover that thing um, why don't you get the hell out of here, and just making a very like big commotion.
The owner 's signed statement verifies that he allowed Rich to remain while he left to contact Wallingford Police to verify that Open Carry was indeed legal. The owner is a permit holder and had been taught that Open Carry was illegal as part of the Permit process.
It was only after the owner walked away fromRich to make the call thatMr. Mark Vanaman, (also a Connecticut Permitholder),approached Richto demand he conceal his weapon, and began to yell or talk loud enough that is was consideredboisterous and causingany and allcommotion and alarm.
The inconsistencies that have beenfound in the written documents tell the real story.
I made it a point to contact and discuss this situationwith theowner who verifies everything Rich did that night, especially the fact that Rich initially offered to leave the Pool Hall immediately.
I have attempted to insert a link to the owner's handwritten statement but this board will not properly allow me to do so.
So if you type http://www. and this text into your browser you will find the statement on ctgunrights.com.
ctgunrights.com/01.News/Billiard%20Hall%20Owner's%20statement0001.pdf
More information regarding this incident will become public as time passes.
Rich B
Regular Member
imported post
dcmdon wrote:
I have no idea where you got this idea, but that never happened. I also have no idea why anyone would think I should conceal. I offered to leave to the manager twice, which more than satisfies my legal responsibilities.
Ed explains this well enough, and I have explained this several times in this thread already.
dcmdon wrote:
I have no idea where you got this idea, but that never happened. I also have no idea why anyone would think I should conceal. I offered to leave to the manager twice, which more than satisfies my legal responsibilities.
Ed explains this well enough, and I have explained this several times in this thread already.
dcmdon
Regular Member
imported post
Thanks for explaining rich.
A couple of points here:
1) you said you have no idea why anyone should think you should conceal. I uncerstand your point. But its not relevant. If the person with legal authority over the premises doesn't want you there, the only legal option is to leave.
(your actions as described by you and Ed clearly show you understand that.)
2) if an employee tells you to cover it up (Sarah Dobensky) when the owner is present, it carries zero legal authority and I applaud you for ignoring her requests.
Thanks again for clearing it up.
RichB - you are doing us all a great service by exercising your rights, but also respecting the rights of property owners.
Don
Thanks for explaining rich.
A couple of points here:
1) you said you have no idea why anyone should think you should conceal. I uncerstand your point. But its not relevant. If the person with legal authority over the premises doesn't want you there, the only legal option is to leave.
(your actions as described by you and Ed clearly show you understand that.)
2) if an employee tells you to cover it up (Sarah Dobensky) when the owner is present, it carries zero legal authority and I applaud you for ignoring her requests.
Thanks again for clearing it up.
RichB - you are doing us all a great service by exercising your rights, but also respecting the rights of property owners.
Don
GoldCoaster
Regular Member
imported post
I think the owner of the pool hall handled things very well up to the point where another of his patrons got into a heated verbal tirade against Rich. He should have ejected the instigator of that tirade at that point.
His action of not jumping to conclusions and calling to find out the legality is a very reasonable approach so he's to be commended for that.
As for calling the police, well they are probably the last people to call to find out the legalities of stuff, they never seem to get it right.
I'm guessing the WPD now know the legalities of open-carry.
I think the owner of the pool hall handled things very well up to the point where another of his patrons got into a heated verbal tirade against Rich. He should have ejected the instigator of that tirade at that point.
His action of not jumping to conclusions and calling to find out the legality is a very reasonable approach so he's to be commended for that.
As for calling the police, well they are probably the last people to call to find out the legalities of stuff, they never seem to get it right.
I'm guessing the WPD now know the legalities of open-carry.
Rich B
Regular Member
imported post
Dcmdon,
I am not going to reply in depth with your comments since I am busy, but nothing of what you are saying occurred that night.
I have never spoken to Sarah D. in my life. No one asked me to conceal. I was only ordered to conceal by an irate lunatic (Mr. Vanaman). You would do yourself and any future readers of this thread a great service to read this thread in its entirety. I think you are confused after reading only Sarah's statement and drawing your own broad (and erroneous) conclusions.
I am not at all angry with you, so please don't get that impression. However, you are asserting things as facts that never occurred and asking questions that have been answered several times already in this thread.
Dcmdon,
I am not going to reply in depth with your comments since I am busy, but nothing of what you are saying occurred that night.
I have never spoken to Sarah D. in my life. No one asked me to conceal. I was only ordered to conceal by an irate lunatic (Mr. Vanaman). You would do yourself and any future readers of this thread a great service to read this thread in its entirety. I think you are confused after reading only Sarah's statement and drawing your own broad (and erroneous) conclusions.
I am not at all angry with you, so please don't get that impression. However, you are asserting things as facts that never occurred and asking questions that have been answered several times already in this thread.
Edward Peruta
Regular Member
imported post
FACTS TO CONSIDER:
The incident where Rich Burgess was arrested for Disorderly Conduct took place on the night of May 16[suP]th[/suP]
At the suggestion of a Wallingford Police Sergeant, Rich Burgess made an Internal Affairs Complaint for unlawful arrest to the Wallingford Police Department at approximately 10:00 A.M on the morning of May 17[suP]th[/suP]
Officer Flood, as the arresting officer is one of several Wallingford Police Officers who are the subjects of the wrongful arrest complaint made on the morning of May 17th.
Officer Flood met with, discussed and took the following statement from Robert Hilton the owner of Yale Billiards on the evening of May 17[suP]th[/suP] during a period when he and his decision to arrest Richard Burgess were the subject of the Internal Affairs Complaint filed earlier that day. This fact is evidenced by his comments as found in a section of the transcript of a recorded conversation he had with another witness later in the evening.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yep.
OFFICER FLOOD: P-people's pool games and, and all that so.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: You know it, it, it was what it was and you know, we're just following up with everyone because he's sort of making a, a big, a big deal of it and uh, complaining to our chief that we, that we took his rights away and all that um, but, we don't believe that, that, that we did and.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: We just, we just had the best, we have the p-public's best in-interest at heart, you know what I mean? And that guy shouldn't have been there, shouldn't have, have been causing everyone alarmed like, like that UM, but he was trying to prove his point and he shouldn't have been doing it there.
Officer Floodmay have influenced the facts in Mr. Hilton’s statement in an attempt to minimize his decision to arrest Rich Burgess for legally carrying his firearm openly and NOT arresting Mr. Mark Vanaman for creating the disturbance and causing alarm in Yale Billiards.
It is without question that officers under investigation SHOULD NOT be making contact with potential witnesses to their improper conduct when under investigation for same.
On 5/16/10 at about 6:10 P.M. I arrived at 950 Yale Avenue Unit #25, Yale Billiards for work. I own the establishment and have since 1998.
A white male came in with shorts, a navy blue shirt, and a pony tail with a female with curly blond hair.
At about 6:55 P.M. Dave Zaborowski, and Sarah Debensky, told me that there was a guy carrying a gun on his hip that was fully exposed.
Sarah told me that this was making her feel uncomfortable and asked me to speak to him about his exposed gun.
I went over to the male with the exposed gun on his hip and two fully exposed magazines for the gun on his belt too.
I asked him to please cover the gun up. He replied, “No I won’t do that, but I will leave if you want me to.”
I told him to just hang out a while and he handed a pamphlet on CT gun laws. I started to walk back to the front to call the police to see if it was legal or not.
As I was walking away another male named Greg came up to me and told me that the guy over there was carrying a exposed gun.
I also heard Mark Vanaman telling the male with the gun that what was doing was illegal.
At this point I told the male that he would have to leave because people were getting upset and uncomfortable.
The male agreed and went outside and sat on a bench outside and said that he would wait for the police.
The male with the gun also told me that he was trying to make a point. I felt uncomfortable about the man carrying an exposed gun in my establishment, one for the concern of safety for my customers and if it was illegal.
I then called the Wallingford Police to report the incident. At the time that the man with the gun was in the establishment there were about 35 other patrons in the establishment.
Officer Flood may have assisted and/or influenced the owner in his choice ofwords and factsto justify whatby his own statement to Sarah was becoming"A BIG DEAL"
FACTS TO CONSIDER:
The incident where Rich Burgess was arrested for Disorderly Conduct took place on the night of May 16[suP]th[/suP]
At the suggestion of a Wallingford Police Sergeant, Rich Burgess made an Internal Affairs Complaint for unlawful arrest to the Wallingford Police Department at approximately 10:00 A.M on the morning of May 17[suP]th[/suP]
Officer Flood, as the arresting officer is one of several Wallingford Police Officers who are the subjects of the wrongful arrest complaint made on the morning of May 17th.
Officer Flood met with, discussed and took the following statement from Robert Hilton the owner of Yale Billiards on the evening of May 17[suP]th[/suP] during a period when he and his decision to arrest Richard Burgess were the subject of the Internal Affairs Complaint filed earlier that day. This fact is evidenced by his comments as found in a section of the transcript of a recorded conversation he had with another witness later in the evening.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yep.
OFFICER FLOOD: P-people's pool games and, and all that so.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: You know it, it, it was what it was and you know, we're just following up with everyone because he's sort of making a, a big, a big deal of it and uh, complaining to our chief that we, that we took his rights away and all that um, but, we don't believe that, that, that we did and.
SARAH DOBENSKY: Yeah.
OFFICER FLOOD: We just, we just had the best, we have the p-public's best in-interest at heart, you know what I mean? And that guy shouldn't have been there, shouldn't have, have been causing everyone alarmed like, like that UM, but he was trying to prove his point and he shouldn't have been doing it there.
Officer Floodmay have influenced the facts in Mr. Hilton’s statement in an attempt to minimize his decision to arrest Rich Burgess for legally carrying his firearm openly and NOT arresting Mr. Mark Vanaman for creating the disturbance and causing alarm in Yale Billiards.
It is without question that officers under investigation SHOULD NOT be making contact with potential witnesses to their improper conduct when under investigation for same.
On 5/16/10 at about 6:10 P.M. I arrived at 950 Yale Avenue Unit #25, Yale Billiards for work. I own the establishment and have since 1998.
A white male came in with shorts, a navy blue shirt, and a pony tail with a female with curly blond hair.
At about 6:55 P.M. Dave Zaborowski, and Sarah Debensky, told me that there was a guy carrying a gun on his hip that was fully exposed.
Sarah told me that this was making her feel uncomfortable and asked me to speak to him about his exposed gun.
I went over to the male with the exposed gun on his hip and two fully exposed magazines for the gun on his belt too.
I asked him to please cover the gun up. He replied, “No I won’t do that, but I will leave if you want me to.”
I told him to just hang out a while and he handed a pamphlet on CT gun laws. I started to walk back to the front to call the police to see if it was legal or not.
As I was walking away another male named Greg came up to me and told me that the guy over there was carrying a exposed gun.
I also heard Mark Vanaman telling the male with the gun that what was doing was illegal.
At this point I told the male that he would have to leave because people were getting upset and uncomfortable.
The male agreed and went outside and sat on a bench outside and said that he would wait for the police.
The male with the gun also told me that he was trying to make a point. I felt uncomfortable about the man carrying an exposed gun in my establishment, one for the concern of safety for my customers and if it was illegal.
I then called the Wallingford Police to report the incident. At the time that the man with the gun was in the establishment there were about 35 other patrons in the establishment.
Officer Flood may have assisted and/or influenced the owner in his choice ofwords and factsto justify whatby his own statement to Sarah was becoming"A BIG DEAL"
dcmdon
Regular Member
imported post
Rich B wrote:
Rich, you are absolutely right.
I skipped around and skimmed from the beginning of the thread. I will read it from the beginning when I get the time. My apologies if I misrepresented your actions.
Have you consulted with a civil rights attorney about going on the offense?
I think if enough municipalities get their asses handed to them by civil courts, other municipalities will start educating their LEOs about the law.
If memory serves me right Goldberg is suing.
Rich B wrote:
Rich, you are absolutely right.
I skipped around and skimmed from the beginning of the thread. I will read it from the beginning when I get the time. My apologies if I misrepresented your actions.
Have you consulted with a civil rights attorney about going on the offense?
I think if enough municipalities get their asses handed to them by civil courts, other municipalities will start educating their LEOs about the law.
If memory serves me right Goldberg is suing.
kwikrnu
Banned
imported post
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should." Is that the standard cop response to exercising rights?
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should." Is that the standard cop response to exercising rights?
ChinChin
Regular Member
imported post
kwikrnu wrote:
Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.
kwikrnu wrote:
The police are there to enforce and uphold laws; not opine on them. That isn't what their masters, the taxpayers and people have empowered them to do.
Just because they can, doesn't mean they should.
PT111
Regular Member
imported post
I think that during and after this whole ordeal Rich B. has handled himself as a gentleman and a credit to not only the OC community but as an American. I actually, considering all the facts that I have seen, do not see how he could have done any better. At the same time there does seem to be one person that seems to insist on telling everyone what happened and what everyone involved should have and should do. In other words a prime kmow-it-all-busy-body. Much like some great athletes that you try to have respect for and admire but the hanger-ons and media whores surrounding them start to get on your nerves so much that you wind up hoping they will lose just to shut the jock sniffers up.
I think that during and after this whole ordeal Rich B. has handled himself as a gentleman and a credit to not only the OC community but as an American. I actually, considering all the facts that I have seen, do not see how he could have done any better. At the same time there does seem to be one person that seems to insist on telling everyone what happened and what everyone involved should have and should do. In other words a prime kmow-it-all-busy-body. Much like some great athletes that you try to have respect for and admire but the hanger-ons and media whores surrounding them start to get on your nerves so much that you wind up hoping they will lose just to shut the jock sniffers up.