Question about carrying in a bar in Wisconsin with a Michigan CPL

[minime3171]

I got into a discussion with a person who has a MI cpl and I am in the process of getting mine. I recall the instructor of the class stating that if you have a MI cpl you need to follow MI laws along with the other states laws when going into that state. So according to MI you can't go into a MI bar with a weapon and the same would be in WI if you have a MI cpl. Although WI allows a concealed weapon in the bar as long as your not drinking. Am I correct that I can't carry in a WI bar or is my friend correct that he can carry in a WI bar with a MI cpl.
Update: I forgot to post that this information is from the instructor who also is a Michigan State Police Officer.

 

[Shadow Bear]

I got into a discussion with a person who has a MI cpl and I am in the process of getting mine. I recall the instructor of the class stating that if you have a MI cpl you need to follow MI laws along with the other states laws when going into that state. So according to MI you can't go into a MI bar with a weapon and the same would be in WI if you have a MI cpl. Although WI allows a concealed weapon in the bar as long as your not drinking. Am I correct that I can't carry in a WI bar or is my friend correct that he can carry in a WI bar with a MI cpl.

Once you leave Michigan, you are completely under the laws of the state you entered. Michigan laws ONLY apply within Michigan borders.

 

[Grapeshot]

Michigan resident with Michigan Concealed Pistol License (CPL) permit wishing to carry a concealed pistol in another state:
If you are a Michigan resident with a Michigan concealed pistol permit and want to carry your pistol into another state you are strongly encouraged to contact that state for information on their concealed pistol law. A Michigan CPL permit does not supersede any other state's law or CCW requirements.
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...0957--,00.html

Reciprocity - yes
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html
and "yes" again
http://legallyarmed.com/resources/statelist.html


However the Michigan Att'y Generals link below says quite the opposite - no reciprocity with Wisconsin. Is this an out of date page?
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-48134-182003--F,00.html

 

[Lurchiron]

I got into a discussion with a person who has a MI cpl and I am in the process of getting mine. I recall the instructor of the class stating that if you have a MI cpl you need to follow MI laws along with the other states laws when going into that state. So according to MI you can't go into a MI bar with a weapon and the same would be in WI if you have a MI cpl. Although WI allows a concealed weapon in the bar as long as your not drinking. Am I correct that I can't carry in a WI bar or is my friend correct that he can carry in a WI bar with a MI cpl.

Don't know...but if you ......................................., I'm sure they'd be mighty appreciative :dude:

 

[DrTodd]

Michigan resident with Michigan Concealed Pistol License (CPL) permit wishing to carry a concealed pistol in another state:
If you are a Michigan resident with a Michigan concealed pistol permit and want to carry your pistol into another state you are strongly encouraged to contact that state for information on their concealed pistol law. A Michigan CPL permit does not supersede any other state's law or CCW requirements.
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7...0957--,00.html

Reciprocity - yes
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html
and "yes" again
http://legallyarmed.com/resources/statelist.html


However the Michigan Att'y Generals link below says quite the opposite - no reciprocity with Wisconsin. Is this an out of date page?
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-48134-182003--F,00.html

Old link.

This is the "new one": http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-58056_22672-60639--,00.html

 

[Interceptor_Knight]

However the Michigan Att'y Generals link below says quite the opposite - no reciprocity with Wisconsin. Is this an out of date page?

Although it is a fact that Michigan and WI do not have a formal Reciprocity agreement, WI does recognize a Michigan permit and MI recognizes all resident permits/licenses...:http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/conceal-carry/reciprocity

 

[apjonas]

This is a Good Reason to have Well-Defined Terms that are Used Consistently

Although it is a fact that Michigan and WI do not have a formal Reciprocity agreement, WI does recognize a Michigan permit and MI recognizes all resident permits/licenses...:http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/conceal-carry/reciprocity

I think that "reciprocity" implies a statutory provision of two-way recognition which may or may not require a formal agreement.

For one-way provisions - "recognition" or "mutal recognition" are good terms. Examples:

Michigan recognizes Wisconsin (in fact all states' licenses for residents of those states), whether or not the other state recognizes Michigan.
Wisconsin recognizes Virginia non-Resident.
Texas and Louisiana have reciprocity (by administrative agreement authorized by statute).
Virginia recognizes Washington (but not vice-versa).
By operation of statute, Florida will recognize any state (resident only) that recognizes Florida.

Many states that do not require reciprocity agreements execute them to meet the requirements of the other state.

Restrictions on the type(s) of weapon(s) carried are set by the law of the state in which they are carried. However, they may also be limited by the terms of the license/permit on which the weapon is carried. If the state of carrying specifically states that all of the conditions of the license (which are imposed by the issuing state) apply, then the carrier must comply with the laws of both states. You can also make a argument that the license is only deemed valid by the issuing state when its own conditions are complied with. Thus if State A says that its licenses is valid only for handguns (invalid for say, a knife). Then you cannot carry a knife in State B which recognizes State A (because you do not have a valid license for State B to recognize), even if State B's own license covers knives. I do not know of a situation like this, but people should be careful of such traps.

 

[MKEgal]

if you have a MI cpl you need to follow MI laws along with the other states laws when going into that state.

Once you leave Michigan, you are completely under the laws of the state you entered. Michigan laws ONLY apply within Michigan borders.

What he said. MI laws would be considered outside of MI if you're buying a firearm. If it's illegal in MI, you're not allowed to buy it anywhere. But carrying depends on the laws where you physically are.

So according to MI you can't go into a MI bar with a weapon and the same would be in WI if you have a MI cpl.

Your friend is correct - as long as you have a license which is recognized by WI (and according to the WI DOJ page about reciprocity [SUP]*1[/SUP], we do recognize MI) you're allowed to carry concealed in a "tavern" [SUP]*2[/SUP] if you do not drink alcohol.
And according to MI [SUP]*3[/SUP], "A Michigan concealed pistol licensee who wishes to carry a concealed pistol in another state is responsible for complying with the laws of that state."

I forgot to post that this information is from the instructor who also is a Michigan State Police Officer.

Never ask police for legal advice. Many don't understand the firearms laws as they apply to regular citizens.
Apparently, even the person responsible for teaching the laws to people wanting to become regular everyday LACs doesn't know them.
Or was he only teaching the NRA Personal Protection class? I know there's some legal content in that, but generally it's taught by a professional, such as a lawyer.


*1 http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/conceal-carry/reciprocity
also included in another post

*2 a bar, or a restaurant which serves alcohol for on-premesis consumption (such as Olive Garden)

*3 http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,4534,7-164-58056_22672-60639--,00.html


Here's where you can start looking up WI statutes:
http://legis.wisconsin.gov/RSB/STATS.HTML

And here's a very informative thread explaining many of the WI laws:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...rrying-(OC)-In-WI-Here-s-what-you-should-know


To confuse things even more, OC is allowed in a tavern with permission from the owner or manager, even without a license.