Moms Demanding Action in Oly Friday

Bill Starks · Jan 20, 2014

Several times today I had to talk to individuals about handling their long guns.

One guy showed up walking around with a bolt action rifle in his hand, no sling, no trigger guard with a 5 round loop attached to the butt stock. We got him a piece of twine to create a sling.
One guy though it was a gun show and was showing off his SKS to his friends.
One guy (not his fault) was standing there on the sidewalk with his single point harness when the plastic clip failed and the AR dropped muzzle first on the concrete and bounced around.

I don't have an issue with long guns or hand guns at the Capitol but quit treating public places like a damn gun show....... Sling it on your back or holster it and leave it alone, it's not that hard to understand.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 20, 2014

gogodawgs said:
In the chambers.....yes.

Oh thank you.

Grim_Night · Jan 20, 2014

Bill Starks said:
Several times today I had to talk to individuals about handling their long guns.

One guy showed up walking around with a bolt action rifle in his hand, no sling, no trigger guard with a 5 round loop attached to the butt stock. We got him a piece of twine to create a sling.
One guy though it was a gun show and was showing off his SKS to his friends.
One guy (not his fault) was standing there on the sidewalk with his single point harness when the plastic clip failed and the AR dropped muzzle first on the concrete and bounced around.

I don't have an issue with long guns or hand guns at the Capitol but quit treating public places like a damn gun show....... Sling it on your back or holster it and leave it alone, it's not that hard to understand.

Yeah, was right there when you delt with the guy with the rifle and no sling... I just wanted to cover my face in shame and embarrassment. Common sense just isn't so common anymore and it's going to hurt all of us. All of us are going to make minor mistakes from time to time and the trick is learning from those mistakes so we don't make them again. Even better would be to learn from the mistakes others make. I'm constantly finding myself (when talking with others about my every day carry) making a big point to point at my hip without my hand coming anywhere near my firearm so as not to be mistaken for handling it in a way that could even be considered to be a threatening or alarming way. I feel stupid every time I do it cuz I'm sure it looks totally silly. But I'd rather look silly then get tackled to the ground or shot by some LEO.

I love open carrying. It's so liberating to open carry. But there is a time and place for long gun open carry and in the middle of downtown Olympia right outside the capital building in the middle of a mess load of other people... I don't think that is the time or place when we are trying to make a point that those of us that open carry are doing so in a nonthreatening and responsible manner...

Aknazer · Jan 20, 2014

Dave_pro2a said:
Change "long gun" to "open" and your logic of your argument is unaffected.

Not really. The point that they are making is that those doing LGOC are doing stupid things like flagging others and other things that can actively push people away (like the guy who didn't even have a sling). If the HGOC crowd was doing these things then you would have an argument, but when it is only the LGOC people doing it (as according to them) then your argument falls apart. Because ultimately, it is these stupid actions (flagging people, carrying guns in hand, passing them around, etc) that is the issue.

Dave_pro2a · Jan 20, 2014

Aknazer said:
Not really. The point that they are making is that those doing LGOC are doing stupid things like flagging others and other things that can actively push people away (like the guy who didn't even have a sling). If the HGOC crowd was doing these things then you would have an argument, but when it is only the LGOC people doing it (as according to them) then your argument falls apart. Because ultimately, it is these stupid actions (flagging people, carrying guns in hand, passing them around, etc) that is the issue.

It's the same basic argument made by those who do not open carry, against those who do open carry -- that 'in your face' open carry advocacy will result in anti-gun laws being passed (or preemption changed so cities can pass their own laws).

If you go to enough municipalities or jurisdictions within the state complain about open carry issues to the libraries, parks departments, city councils, police departments, schools, etc, then eventually all the liberals in this state WILL get their act together and do away with open carry of pistols.

Welcome to the new CA.

Freedom First · Jan 20, 2014

I didn't hear about the Sunday event until Saturday pm. Damn shame too. I would have brought a van or two of folks from the TriCities if I'd known.

Then again, we would be carrying rifles. Just like those founders many here revere did back in the day when firearms equated to freedom... Just sayin'.

Grim_Night · Jan 20, 2014

Freedom First said:
I didn't hear about the Sunday event until Saturday pm. Damn shame too. I would have brought a van or two of folks from the TriCities if I'd known.

Then again, we would be carrying rifles. Just like those founders many here revere did back in the day when firearms equated to freedom... Just sayin'.

I personally don't have a problem with long guns being carried at such an event as sunday the 19th as long as said carry is done with respect and done responsibly (carry with the long gun slung on your back and pointed at the ground, loaded or unloaded). My issue is the general open carry of long guns in every day life. I see no logical reason to be walking around town, the mall, the grocery store, or the bank with a rifle slung on your back. Open carry like that can serve only 1 purpose... to draw attention.

MSG Laigaie · Jan 20, 2014

Jeff Hayes said:
....Folks we are and have been shooting our selves in the foot we need to get a lot smarter and a lot more united if we are going to continue win this war.

Bill Starks said:
Several times today I had to talk to individuals about handling their long guns...........but quit treating public places like a damn gun show....... Sling it on your back or holster it and leave it alone, it's not that hard to understand.

Freedom First said:
Then again, we would be carrying rifles. Just like those founders many here revere did back in the day when firearms equated to freedom... Just sayin'.

I helped out with "security" last year and it was the same. Showing off weapons, sweeping and just could not keep their hands off the weapon. Two hundred years ago the long gun was the commonly carried (read normal carry) weapon for self defense. Not a great deal of folks carried pistols as a matter of course. Times have changed and the pistol is now the "normal carry" weapon. Yes, you have the right to carry a long gun, and I hope you do that responsibly, but you are helping the antis take MY gun rights away by scaring the ship out of them.
I wear a weapon every day, well holstered on my hip for all the honest world to see. People interact with me, not my weapon. When you walk into the area with a long gun in hand or even properly slung, you intimidate to the point of distraction.

Do as you will but harm none. By LGOC you harm us all.

Rusty Young Man · Jan 20, 2014

I think this dichotomy between LGOC and "our" OC (pistol OC) is based more in the "how" and "who" than in the "where, when, and why" it is carried.
Case in point: saying that merely OCing a long gun will scare the antis is like the argument we hear from the CC-only bunch ("don't OC because the antis will come ban my carry method as well").
I think the real problem lies in how the gun (pistol or long) is carried: safe or unsafe, tastefully or recklessly. We've seen and read about people who've OCed pistols in an unsafe manner, and the same mistakes committed by that OCer can be applied to LGOC: lack of sling (holster), use of inadequate sling (inadequate holster) that does not hold the gun in place, sweeping people, hands coming to grip the gun, playing with the safety, etc.
If anything, responsible LGOCers could show the on-the-fence crowd that all of their fears are unfounded. After all, the people with those scary-looking, baby-killing, puppy-kicking guns with extended assault clips didn't kill anyone, and if they have polite interactions with the LGOCers, they come away with a better image of the gun community in general. After all, we are trying to normalize OC, so having the masses see LGOC might help speed up having our pistol carry seem completely normal.
Also, "we" want to normalize OC and the LGOCers (and some of "us") want to normalize our respective carry methods, so it helps to dress tastefully (trying to steer away from racist/violent slogans on t-shirts, etc). At that point, the "who" of carry come in: don't try to look like Rambo or a mall ninja, just go about your daily business in your normal fashion (unless you're a mall ninja, then just try to emulate what you see people wear on clothing commercials:lol

.

DamonK · Jan 21, 2014

Can you all say hypocrite? Seriously guys, shame on you. You're no better than the CC crowd that gives us such a hard time. Especially at a political rally, where you are making a statement, this is where you choose to draw your line in the sand? What happens to "No limits on my right to carry how I want"? I'll call it what it is, cowardice.

:banghead:

Sent from my KFJWI using Tapatalk 2

DCKilla · Jan 21, 2014

Instead of discouraging LGOC, we need to be there with them. If you need to correct, then correct. If you need to help, then help. Get a sling for that guy. Verbally correct that other guy. Whatever, putting down those people for their mode of carry isn't helping. Damonk is right. We're acting like the CC only crowd with their elitism. Work with them, help them, correct them if need be.

tombrewster421 · Jan 21, 2014

Rusty Young Man said:
I think this dichotomy between LGOC and "our" OC (pistol OC) is based more in the "how" and "who" than in the "where, when, and why" it is carried.
Case in point: saying that merely OCing a long gun will scare the antis is like the argument we hear from the CC-only bunch ("don't OC because the antis will come ban my carry method as well").
I think the real problem lies in how the gun (pistol or long) is carried: safe or unsafe, tastefully or recklessly. We've seen and read about people who've OCed pistols in an unsafe manner, and the same mistakes committed by that OCer can be applied to LGOC: lack of sling (holster), use of inadequate sling (inadequate holster) that does not hold the gun in place, sweeping people, hands coming to grip the gun, playing with the safety, etc.
If anything, responsible LGOCers could show the on-the-fence crowd that all of their fears are unfounded. After all, the people with those scary-looking, baby-killing, puppy-kicking guns with extended assault clips didn't kill anyone, and if they have polite interactions with the LGOCers, they come away with a better image of the gun community in general. After all, we are trying to normalize OC, so having the masses see LGOC might help speed up having our pistol carry seem completely normal.
Also, "we" want to normalize OC and the LGOCers (and some of "us") want to normalize our respective carry methods, so it helps to dress tastefully (trying to steer away from racist/violent slogans on t-shirts, etc). At that point, the "who" of carry come in: don't try to look like Rambo or a mall ninja, just go about your daily business in your normal fashion (unless you're a mall ninja, then just try to emulate what you see people wear on clothing commercials:lol.

Qft

TechnoWeenie · Jan 21, 2014

DCKilla said:
Instead of discouraging LGOC, we need to be there with them. If you need to correct, then correct. If you need to help, then help. Get a sling for that guy. Verbally correct that other guy. Whatever, putting down those people for their mode of carry isn't helping. Damonk is right. We're acting like the CC only crowd with their elitism. Work with them, help them, correct them if need be.

At the last event I attended, my voice got sore saying 'watch your muzzle', after getting muzzle swept so many times.

I had one idiot with a shotgun do it multiple times. When I finally told him to 'WATCH YOUR ******* MUZZLE!' for the fiftieth time, he slunk away...I saw him get called on it multiple times by other people as well.

There were a couple idiots carrying their ARs like this...

So, yeah.... They do hurt the cause, not to mention make the situation unsafe.

Freedom First · Jan 21, 2014

TechnoWeenie said:
At the last event I attended, my voice got sore saying 'watch your muzzle', after getting muzzle swept so many times.

I had one idiot with a shotgun do it multiple times. When I finally told him to 'WATCH YOUR ******* MUZZLE!' for the fiftieth time, he slunk away...I saw him get called on it multiple times by other people as well.

<SNIP>

So, yeah.... They do hurt the cause, not to mention make the situation unsafe.

Unsafe? I'm sorry, but when was the last time someone got shot by an OCLG? We seem to have NRA class inspired muzzle fear in effect here. Let's stick to facts. Your assertion that a slung rifle (regardless of the sling type) is less safe than a holstered handgun is baseless without facts. Got facts?

TechnoWeenie said:
There were a couple idiots carrying their ARs like this...

Idiots? Do you have any evidence other than your clearly personal judgement? I use a two point sling so I was probably one of your idiots. And somehow, regardless of my idiocy, no one got shot while I was there.

Anyhow, I'm not suggesting that schlepping a rifle to the mall is a good idea but I would suggest that the fearful responses to seeing long arms in public is an issue you folks need to examine on a personal basis.

P.S. It's an M-1A. A very nice battle rifle. I'm a bit jealous of Mr. Multicam there.

EMNofSeattle · Jan 21, 2014

Freedom First said:
Unsafe? I'm sorry, but when was the last time someone got shot by an OCLG? We seem to have NRA class inspired muzzle fear in effect here. Let's stick to facts. Your assertion that a slung rifle (regardless of the sling type) is less safe than a holstered handgun is baseless without facts. Got facts?

Idiots? Do you have any evidence other than your clearly personal judgement? I use a two point sling so I was probably one of your idiots. And somehow, regardless of my idiocy, no one got shot while I was there.

Anyhow, I'm not suggesting that schlepping a rifle to the mall is a good idea but I would suggest that the fearful responses to seeing long arms in public is an issue you folks need to examine on a personal basis.

P.S. It's an M-1A. A very nice battle rifle. I'm a bit jealous of Mr. Multicam there.

You mean people might be concerned about the end of a gun where a deadly projectile that can exceed 1000 miles per hour comes out of might be pointing at them? what a bunch of freaks.......

if while two point slinging your rifle you are holding it horizontal in your hand and sweep everyone else with the muzzle, I while gladly call you an idiot right here and now for the record.

if while two point slinging, you have muzzle down not sweeping everyone, please disregard.

sudden valley gunner · Jan 21, 2014

We have an unwritten rule in surfing, that who ever is closer to the peak owns the wave.

No government rules or rulers enforcing it. It keeps order and you might not end up catching any waves if you act like a kook and disregard surf culture and etiquette. Most everyone does and surfing is enjoyable. If ya mess up someone will let ya know.

Sweeping people can be similar, it is good manners not to sweep people with the barrel of your weapons. We don't need government rules and mandates to tell us this, people warning and letting others know hey that's not cool is a good thing, hopefully most will learn and show respect so we can all have a good time with our firearms.

LGOC doesn't bother me. I don't see it compatible with everyday carry, and facilitating going about your normal life, that has anything to do with exercising rights and carrying them at rally's.

Freedom First · Jan 21, 2014

EMNofSeattle said:
You mean people might be concerned about the end of a gun where a deadly projectile that can exceed 1000 miles per hour comes out of might be pointing at them? what a bunch of freaks.......

if while two point slinging your rifle you are holding it horizontal in your hand and sweep everyone else with the muzzle, I while gladly call you an idiot right here and now for the record.

if while two point slinging, you have muzzle down not sweeping everyone, please disregard.

Disregarded. I'm not his idiot. Or yours. Only a idiot would point a gun at someone or something he didn't plan on destroying.

Regarding those 1,000 mph projectiles, I don't personally like having guns pointed at me either. But I have seen that there is a type of "gun person" who is so controlling and soon becomes religious about certain things. Generally the "muzzle rule" is the cardinal rule they cling to. Sorry if I've offended any NRA folks but I have been so annoyed by those pious types to the point of distraction. It's the "hall monitor" mindset with running around nagging at people unasked. As if they get a vote?..

EMNofSeattle · Jan 21, 2014

sudden valley gunner said:
We have an unwritten rule in surfing, that who ever is closer to the peak owns the wave.

No government rules or rulers enforcing it. It keeps order and you might not end up catching any waves if you act like a kook and disregard surf culture and etiquette. Most everyone does and surfing is enjoyable. If ya mess up someone will let ya know.

Sweeping people can be similar, it is good manners not to sweep people with the barrel of your weapons. We don't need government rules and mandates to tell us this, people warning and letting others know hey that's not cool is a good thing, hopefully most will learn and show respect so we can all have a good time with our firearms.

LGOC doesn't bother me. I don't see it compatible with everyday carry, and facilitating going about your normal life, that has anything to do with exercising rights and carrying them at rally's.

The two are not at all similiar, no one gets killed if someone hogs your wave, and the cops hopefully have better things to do then meditate your surfing wave dispute,

on the other hand, muzzle sweeping people is a gross violation of rules for safe handing of an incredibly deadly machine meant to exert violence. If someone is frequently muzzle flagging someone else, they need to be arrested and their gun taken away. it's a violation of washington law to aim or point any firearm, loaded or not, towards any human being (RCW 9.41.230) except in self defense.

I have no problem with people who legally carry guns, none whatsoever. I question the wisdom of carrying a long gun under "peacetime" conditions with no specific reason, but hell it's a free country, do it if you want. but if your carrying in a way that your putting other people in danger (ie flagging them with your muzzle) that's a crime... and it's dangerous.

Freedom First · Jan 21, 2014

Loving your sig line! Now I'm famous!

sudden valley gunner · Jan 21, 2014

EMNofSeattle said:
The two are not at all similiar, no one gets killed if someone hogs your wave, and the cops hopefully have better things to do then meditate your surfing wave dispute,

on the other hand, muzzle sweeping people is a gross violation of rules for safe handing of an incredibly deadly machine meant to exert violence. If someone is frequently muzzle flagging someone else, they need to be arrested and their gun taken away. it's a violation of washington law to aim or point any firearm, loaded or not, towards any human being (RCW 9.41.230) except in self defense.

I have no problem with people who legally carry guns, none whatsoever. I question the wisdom of carrying a long gun under "peacetime" conditions with no specific reason, but hell it's a free country, do it if you want. but if your carrying in a way that your putting other people in danger (ie flagging them with your muzzle) that's a crime... and it's dangerous.

You obviously never surfed. People do and can die from the exact situation I described.

Yet you missed the whole point of my post, no surprise.

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