Moms Demanding Action in Oly Friday

[Jeff Hayes]

I think this dichotomy between LGOC and "our" OC (pistol OC) is based more in the "how" and "who" than in the "where, when, and why" it is carried.
Case in point: saying that merely OCing a long gun will scare the antis is like the argument we hear from the CC-only bunch ("don't OC because the antis will come ban my carry method as well").
I think the real problem lies in how the gun (pistol or long) is carried: safe or unsafe, tastefully or recklessly. We've seen and read about people who've OCed pistols in an unsafe manner, and the same mistakes committed by that OCer can be applied to LGOC: lack of sling (holster), use of inadequate sling (inadequate holster) that does not hold the gun in place, sweeping people, hands coming to grip the gun, playing with the safety, etc.
If anything, responsible LGOCers could show the on-the-fence crowd that all of their fears are unfounded. After all, the people with those scary-looking, baby-killing, puppy-kicking guns with extended assault clips didn't kill anyone, and if they have polite interactions with the LGOCers, they come away with a better image of the gun community in general. After all, we are trying to normalize OC, so having the masses see LGOC might help speed up having our pistol carry seem completely normal.
Also, "we" want to normalize OC and the LGOCers (and some of "us") want to normalize our respective carry methods, so it helps to dress tastefully (trying to steer away from racist/violent slogans on t-shirts, etc). At that point, the "who" of carry come in: don't try to look like Rambo or a mall ninja, just go about your daily business in your normal fashion (unless you're a mall ninja, then just try to emulate what you see people wear on clothing commercials:lol.

Baby steps, long gun OC has not been common for 200 years give or take doingit now is going to cause shock and will be used against our rights. Lets get people used to HGOC and move on after that is established. The anti gun folks have done a great job of eating an elephant one bite at a time we are trying to swallow our elephant whole and we are going to choke.

 

[MSG Laigaie]

LGOC doesn't bother me. I don't see it compatible with everyday carry, and facilitating going about your normal life, that has anything to do with exercising rights and carrying them at rally's.

On this I agree.

On the sweeping of others by LGOCs, I HAVE been shot before. I did not like it at all. When I see someone sweep me I cringe inside and get very angry about the apparent lack of...knowledge..training...civility and the attitude. It is your right to OC a LG. It is NOT your right to put me in harms way.

Sorry if I've offended any NRA folks but I have been so annoyed by those pious types to the point of distraction.......Not offended, just don't shoot me.

 

[Freedom1Man]

On this I agree.

On the sweeping of others by LGOCs, I HAVE been shot before. I did not like it at all. When I see someone sweep me I cringe inside and get very angry about the apparent lack of...knowledge..training...civility and the attitude. It is your right to OC a LG. It is NOT your right to put me in harms way.

Sorry if I've offended any NRA folks but I have been so annoyed by those pious types to the point of distraction.......Not offended, just don't shoot me.

As someone who does OC pistol carry and have done LGOC, I have always been extra careful while doing LGOC. I would put it across my back, barrel down, and then only handle it to take it off or put it back on. Unless I am hunting.....

 

[Freedom First]

Having taken a bit of time to re-read this thread I note that not only has it wandered far from the OT but it has degenerated into something akin to strife. I am guilty of trolling EMN a bit. I'm sure you mean well and I hope you can accept my apology. Just feeling cranky yesterday. For the record: I don't point my firearms at anyone and I think it's stupid to do so. I will shoot you with my kid's airsoft rifle in a heartbeat though...


When I joined OCDO I got really excited about the plan: OC until people get used to it and that will save our Right to Carry. Today I see the bigger picture. The normal folks we meet on the street are not the ones trying to strip me and mine of our Rights. It's the Few. Those who would promote themselves to a place where they rule over a free people. No amount of OC will ever shift their desire to disarm and rule over us. They will continue to push, advancing their plan year after year. These folks will use whatever resources that are available to them: the media, the legislature, the dead children at Newtown, whatever. All with the eye towards the eventual disarming of the last group of people in America who could actually resist their ways.

So, CC, OC or LGOC, does it really matter? Like voting republican, democrat or independent matters? We own more firearms than most countries. But we simply lack the will to use them. All we seem to be able to do is show up at a public rally, armed with scary black rifles in "disobedience" to the organizers, and show others that we have them. Oh well, I guess it's the best we can do.

Regardless, the lines are being drawn. The sides are gathering their forces. Some day it will happen, regardless of the desires of the majority. Lexington was not what either side truly wanted but when it happened things changed.

 

[Grim_Night]

Having taken a bit of time to re-read this thread I note that not only has it wandered far from the OT but it has degenerated into something akin to strife. I am guilty of trolling EMN a bit. I'm sure you mean well and I hope you can accept my apology. Just feeling cranky yesterday. For the record: I don't point my firearms at anyone and I think it's stupid to do so. I will shoot you with my kid's airsoft rifle in a heartbeat though...


When I joined OCDO I got really excited about the plan: OC until people get used to it and that will save our Right to Carry. Today I see the bigger picture. The normal folks we meet on the street are not the ones trying to strip me and mine of our Rights. It's the Few. Those who would promote themselves to a place where they rule over a free people. No amount of OC will ever shift their desire to disarm and rule over us. They will continue to push, advancing their plan year after year. These folks will use whatever resources that are available to them: the media, the legislature, the dead children at Newtown, whatever. All with the eye towards the eventual disarming of the last group of people in America who could actually resist their ways.

So, CC, OC or LGOC, does it really matter? Like voting republican, democrat or independent matters? We own more firearms than most countries. But we simply lack the will to use them. All we seem to be able to do is show up at a public rally, armed with scary black rifles in "disobedience" to the organizers, and show others that we have them. Oh well, I guess it's the best we can do.

Regardless, the lines are being drawn. The sides are gathering their forces. Some day it will happen, regardless of the desires of the majority. Lexington was not what either side truly wanted but when it happened things changed.

I may not completely agree with long gun open carry, but you can bet your life that I will be there standing shoulder to shoulder with you and anybody else if/when members of the government comes to try and take our firearms away in an attempt to strip us of our god given and constitutionally protected rights to self defense. It has been stated before by others, it's not the long gun OC in and of itself that bothers me, it's the lack of common sense while doing such that bothers me. The location of the carry. The dangerous ways that some people carry that makes all others that carry in a responsible and safe manner look bad. We see it all the time with regards to bad police giving the good ones a bad name. My dad use to tell me that you can have 10 "atta boys" in the bank but it only takes 1 oh $h!t to wipe em out. I think the same thing applies here. You can have hundreds of safe and responsible people that OC a long gun or a handgun for that matter but all it takes is 1 person to screw it up for the rest of us because that one person is the one that all the anti's are going to look at and point fingers at and blame the rest of us.

 

[TechnoWeenie]

Unsafe? I'm sorry, but when was the last time someone got shot by an OCLG? We seem to have NRA class inspired muzzle fear in effect here. Let's stick to facts. Your assertion that a slung rifle (regardless of the sling type) is less safe than a holstered handgun is baseless without facts. Got facts?




Idiots? Do you have any evidence other than your clearly personal judgement? I use a two point sling so I was probably one of your idiots. And somehow, regardless of my idiocy, no one got shot while I was there.

GTFO.

Seriously.

You're telling me that you're OK with a guy using a sling to carry his weapon horizontally, as pictured, muzzle sweeping the ever living #%(& out of everyone?


Maybe you need a refresher on the firearms 4 commandments.

2 of which are 'don't point your fireaerm at anything you're not willing to destroy' and 'all firearms are loaded at all times'.

You''re gonna tell me that, because someone has it slung, it's OK to be pointed at me?

Lemme point a gun at you, and see how you feel about it.. Oh, it's OK.. it'll be slung horizontally..

Where's the middle finger icon when you need it....

 

[jsanchez]

In my not worth a dam opinion, its all about education. The guys that carry rifles, educate them about how those guys down in Vancouver WA ran into trouble with the law. I find a couple of compliments on the awesomeness of their rifle, a question or two about it, and then inform them after the conversational repore is established.

We all need to get educated on the facts of gun violence and then triumph why our state with its gun laws keep us so safe, one of the top ten safest states in the nation per Huffington post, liberals find this line more believable. Oh well if they said it in the Huffington post, which they did, then it must be true.

 

[Grapeshot]

GTFO.

Seriously.

You're telling me that you're OK with a guy using a sling to carry his weapon horizontally, as pictured, muzzle sweeping the ever living #%(& out of everyone?


Maybe you need a refresher on the firearms 4 commandments.

2 of which are 'don't point your fireaerm at anything you're not willing to destroy' and 'all firearms are loaded at all times'.

You''re gonna tell me that, because someone has it slung, it's OK to be pointed at me?

Lemme point a gun at you, and see how you feel about it.. Oh, it's OK.. it'll be slung horizontally..

Where's the middle finger icon when you need it....

More appropriate for the forum perhaps would be the question, "How many people have been shot by a handgun in a horizontal shoulder rig?"

While I don't personally like horizontal shoulder holsters (yes they make me feel uncomfortable), I find it difficult to censor someone for carrying in that manner.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

More appropriate for the forum perhaps would be the question, "How many people have been shot by a handgun in a horizontal shoulder rig?"

While I don't personally like horizontal shoulder holsters (yes they make me feel uncomfortable), I find it difficult to censor someone for carrying in that manner.

the difference being, people who carry rifles in public for no purpose other then the carry a rifle tend to believe that any level of gun safety is "NRA class inspired fear" I'll go one step further, they know their behavior causes others to fear for their safety...... And does nothing other then encourage anti gun regulation....

in addition horizontal rigs completely incapsulate the trigger, and virtually all modern handguns will not discharge without the trigger being depressed.
rifles are far more spotty in mechanical safety. plus when was the last time you so a long gun open carrier carrying their long gun in a holster, soft case, or with a trigger lock installed?

 

[Freedom First]

...people who carry rifles in public for no purpose other then the carry a rifle tend to believe that any level of gun safety is "NRA class inspired fear"...

And you know this how exactly?

...I'll go one step further, they know their behavior causes others to fear for their safety......

Oh, you must be a psychic... Now I get it.

<SNIP>

...rifles are far more spotty in mechanical safety.

Yawn.

Perhaps you don't understand the concept of "trolling"? Eh, whatever.

Sir, if you knew me, which you don't, you would have had a good laugh at my post. You don't know me so you have now latched onto this subject as if I somehow speak for the onrushing hordes of LGOCers. As if I personally hold to a life threatening mode of carry or would put lives at risk but foolishly carrying a rifle aimed at people. And now you have taken it upon yourself to school us all about your clearly well thought out views on people with rifles.

And since you're clearly an expert on the mechanics of rifle safety, could you perhaps answer the question I jokingly asked, "When was the last time a LGOC shot someone?" I read every day about the carnage caused by rifles breaking out of their safes and running amok. It's horrible and perhaps you should get a law passed to protect us all.

Thanks but you can drop it. Fun's over.

Actually, I think I'll wait with baited breath for your answer. Should be good. Probably well worth waiting for.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

And you know this how exactly?



Oh, you must be a psychic... Now I get it.

<SNIP>



Yawn.

Perhaps you don't understand the concept of "trolling"? Eh, whatever.

Sir, if you knew me, which you don't, you would have had a good laugh at my post. You don't know me so you have now latched onto this subject as if I somehow speak for the onrushing hordes of LGOCers. As if I personally hold to a life threatening mode of carry or would put lives at risk but foolishly carrying a rifle aimed at people. And now you have taken it upon yourself to school us all about your clearly well thought out views on people with rifles.

And since you're clearly an expert on the mechanics of rifle safety, could you perhaps answer the question I jokingly asked, "When was the last time a LGOC shot someone?" I read every day about the carnage caused by rifles breaking out of their safes and running amok. It's horrible and perhaps you should get a law passed to protect us all.

Thanks but you can drop it. Fun's over.

Actually, I think I'll wait with baited breath for your answer. Should be good. Probably well worth waiting for.

if you are carrying a rifle for no purpose other then carrying a rifle, then your reason is to make other people pay attention to you. there is no way on gods green earth you can sling an AR-15 on your back and then claim "I just want to be left alone" none at all. you know people view it with fear or discomfort or disdain, you know those people will pay attention to you. the only logical result is that you are living on the fear and discomfort others feel about it. It's kinda funny, if a police officer was walking around with an AR 15 you'd probably be screaming "police militarization" "we're in a police state" "oh lawdy, the sky is falling"

walking around horizontally sweeping people is a gross violation of gun safety, and when others confronted you, your response was to call it "NRA class inspired muzzle fear" your comments are publically available, and are cached on internet archives even if you attempt to edit them. It was most certainly not a joke when you wrote it, unless your idea of a "joke" is wildly different then most people.

I don't care if no one has been killed yet by a long gun OCer, someone will be if enough idiots start doing that and pointing their rifles at people. aiming and pointing a firearm at people is a crime in this state. and the state patrol for some reason refuses to their job when people like you who dismiss accepted gun safety practices as "NRA class inspired muzzle fear" and sweep other people. anyone who muzzle sweeps someone else at a public event needs to be thrown and jail and their gun confiscated and auctioned to pay for the jail costs.

I have never advocated that long gun carry be illegal, but the attitude that most of these people take towards safety is getting on my nerves, I wish the state patrol would simply enforce the law as written, aiming pointing a firearm, arrest anyone who muzzlesweeps, charge them, and take their gun away. 5000 dollar fine and lost rifle would probably send the message to adopt better safety practices...

 

[Freedom First]

if you are carrying a rifle for no purpose other then carrying a rifle, then your reason is to make other people pay attention to you. there is no way on gods green earth you can sling an AR-15 on your back and then claim "I just want to be left alone" none at all.

Not really the topic in my mind. We were talking about a 2A rally...

you know people view it with fear or discomfort or disdain, you know those people will pay attention to you. the only logical result is that you are living on the fear and discomfort others feel about it.

Actually, the only times I have carried my rifle in public it has been at protests. So, is it to cause fear? Fear in whom? That would be the real question. Fear for the other attendees? Nope. In those we protest against? Perhaps. Isn't that the point of a protest? "Shape up or else?"

Am I "living" on that fear? Hardly. Your logic? I don't think so. Again you assume to know what is going on behind someone's eyes. You don't and probably should leave that exercise to God.

walking around horizontally sweeping people is a gross violation of gun safety, and when others confronted you, your response was to call it "NRA class inspired muzzle fear" your comments are publically available, and are cached on internet archives even if you attempt to edit them. It was most certainly not a joke when you wrote it, unless your idea of a "joke" is wildly different then most people.

Yes it is. My point was trolling the spastic fear evidenced by the comments from a couple members here relating to that subject. Sorry you clearly missed that. And editing my comments? Please.

I don't care if no one has been killed yet by a long gun OCer, someone will be if enough idiots start doing that and pointing their rifles at people. aiming and pointing a firearm at people is a crime in this state. and the state patrol for some reason refuses to their job when people like you who dismiss accepted gun safety practices as "NRA class inspired muzzle fear" and sweep other people. anyone who muzzle sweeps someone else at a public event needs to be thrown and jail and their gun confiscated and auctioned to pay for the jail costs.

I have never advocated that long gun carry be illegal, but the attitude that most of these people take towards safety is getting on my nerves, I wish the state patrol would simply enforce the law as written, aiming pointing a firearm, arrest anyone who muzzlesweeps, charge them, and take their gun away. 5000 dollar fine and lost rifle would probably send the message to adopt better safety practices...

Idiots with chainsaws kill people every year... Kickback kills. Should we have a law about that too? Should we license chainsaw owners? Mandatory training? Government testing? How much government will make you happy? Is your need to "feel safe" so overpowering that you will sell your children's Freedom to get it?

The attitude of most of these people at the rally? Seriously? How do you claim to know? You assume much. And have no evidence. There were over 2,000 folks at the 2013 rally. 1. No one was shot. 2. Many of the same "idiots" were at that event. 3. I'm sure someone got "swept" there. Should Johnny Law rush out and arrest people for being stupid? What if someone resists? It was a gun rights protest after all...

Seriously, this has got to stop. Some decry the Nanny State while asking her to leave certain of our chosen activities alone. You cannot have it both ways. When you give your Rights to the State, don't be surprised when that choice bites you in the butt.

 

[Dave_pro2a]

I don't care if no one has been killed yet by a long gun OCer, someone will be if enough idiots start doing that and pointing their rifles at people. aiming and pointing a firearm at people is a crime in this state. and the state patrol for some reason refuses to their job when people like you who dismiss accepted gun safety practices as "NRA class inspired muzzle fear" and sweep other people. anyone who muzzle sweeps someone else at a public event needs to be thrown and jail and their gun confiscated and auctioned to pay for the jail costs.

Well, when you put it like that...


It just sounds like a typical anti-gunner. "Oh noze, for the children!" Logic and facts be damned.

 

[Freedom First]

Well, when you put it like that...


It just sounds like a typical anti-gunner. "Oh noze, for the children!" Logic and facts be damned.

Yeah, and I'm the idiot?

 

[Dave_pro2a]

Yeah, and I'm the idiot?

I have not read the whole thread, but I assume you're just putting the principle of freedom first.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Well, when you put it like that...


It just sounds like a typical anti-gunner. "Oh noze, for the children!" Logic and facts be damned.

great, come meet me, and don't mind if I wave my gun around pointing it at you, afterall there's no documented shootings at open carry events, so muzzlesweeping you shouldn't be a problem...

 

[Dave_pro2a]

great, come meet me, and don't mind if I wave my gun around pointing it at you, afterall there's no documented shootings at open carry events, so muzzlesweeping you shouldn't be a problem...

You're funny in a "Ewwwwww, what's on my shoe?' sort of way.


Edited to add: your new sig line by definition makes you a troll.

 

[Freedom First]

I have not read the whole thread, but I assume you're just putting the principle of freedom first.

More or less. That and I was cranky the other day and started to mess with EMN. Oh well, what's typed is typed. One must endure.

Actually, I guess my point is that we, as adults, should be willing to gracefully deal with others who aren't as religious about specific things we feel important. Give a guy a break, don't call him an idiot, lay off the trash talking, don't try to rule his world. You know, mind your own business, which is apparently a bit too far when discussing "muzzle sweeping". So now I have become a pariah in the eyes of some here for my comments.

Alas.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

More or less. That and I was cranky the other day and started to mess with EMN. Oh well, what's typed is typed. One must endure.

Actually, I guess my point is that we, as adults, should be willing to gracefully deal with others who aren't as religious about specific things we feel important. Give a guy a break, don't call him an idiot, lay off the trash talking, don't try to rule his world. You know, mind your own business, which is apparently a bit too far when discussing "muzzle sweeping". So now I have become a pariah in the eyes of some here for my comments.

Alas.

now that I think about, I over reacted as well.

I will apologize to you for that, and remove the quotation of your comment from my signature block....

 

[Freedom First]

now that I think about, I over reacted as well.

I will apologize to you for that, and remove the quotation of your comment from my signature block....

Sir, we are all human here. No blood, no foul.

But I won't be famous now... Darn. And it was a good line too...