Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 96

Thread: Seattle citizen threatens me with Citizen Arrest for legal carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125

    Seattle citizen threatens me with Citizen Arrest for legal carry

    As an open carry advocate and public photographer, I am at many marches, protests and rallies throughout the state of Washington. Police officers and citizens know me as Rogue. The ****** bag in this video HATES guns and anyone who own them. When he first encountered me, months ago, he called my a baby killer and a terror. In this video, he deduced I was conceal carrying and demanded to see my "permit" and drivers license....and that I was under Citizen Arrest. Of course I laughed and started rolling video.
    For those wondering why I referred to Seattle Police Officers as "pigs" in the video, it is because I personally observed them attacking innocent people (myself included) that day. I was not happy with the behavior of the police.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sylq_LLr-ns

    - Rogue Reflections -

  2. #2
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    881
    Sounds like what they are called here in the UK. Pigs and even filth. Usually if someone says "I smell bacon" and it appears out of context the 'old bill' are about.

    Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

    Conservative Broadcast || Google Plus profile

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    I would have told him : go ahead.

    I would like a new car.

  4. #4
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    881
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would have told him : go ahead.

    I would like a new car.
    +1

    though it's quite stupid to harass someone you suspect is armed. That loudmouth put his life in danger and for what? *sigh* people *eyeroll*

    Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

    Conservative Broadcast || Google Plus profile

  5. #5
    Regular Member Super6O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Goddard, KS
    Posts
    67
    Might consider an audio recorder for those moments you dont have video going. Would have been gold to hear this pants wetter making threats of "arrest"


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Warrenton, Oregon
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by RogueReflections View Post
    snip... In this video, he deduced I was conceal carrying and demanded to see my "permit" and drivers license....and that I was under Citizen Arrest.
    Rogue, prior to you recording, did he say that you are under citizen's arrest, or that he should put you are under citizen's arrest, or that he could put you are under citizen's arrest?

    I'm not sure about Washington's rules on citizen's arrest.

    If should / could, then he was just stating an empty threat, as you know.
    BUT, if he said that he is making a citizen's arrest, then you are under arrest, stop talking, stand quietly, and wait for the LEOs.
    If he doesn't call them, you should. (That would be an interesting conversation).
    Obviously the arrest would be illegal (under what you describe), but once he states that you are under citizen's arrest then you are arrested and detained AND the responsibility and liability falls on him... he has to turn you over to the police, file the proper reports / forms, show up in court, etc.

    After the court laughs and throws it out, you counter with a civil suit for false arrest (don't forget to include the stress and mental anguish he put you through) $$$.

    Also, early in the video, he is yelling out to the crowd: "this man has a weapon", "this man has a pistol".
    Would this fit under "breach of the peace" or disorderly conduct?
    If, under Washington law, this attempt to instill fear and panic to the surrounding crowd is illegal, then you could have placed him under citizen's arrest (using only the force necessary to detain him) until you hand him over to the LEOs (video proof copy e-mailed home while waiting, then shown to the officers). I wouldn't, but the possibilities are interesting.

    In Oregon, ORS 133.220 allows arrest by private person, and ORS 133.225 gives the details and "A private person making such an arrest shall, without unnecessary delay, take the arrested person before a magistrate or deliver the arrested person to a peace officer." Use of physical force by private person making citizens arrest is detailed in ORS 161.255

    While states differ, Oregon and Washington are very similar (but not exact) so research Washington law (and let us know).
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

  7. #7
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Your under arrest! No YOUR under arrest! No you were under arrest FIRST! No I have the gun!

    Lol Id actually watch that video.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  8. #8
    Regular Member FMJ 911's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    People's Republic of Snohomishia
    Posts
    351
    You're*
    "May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't." — George Patton

  9. #9
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Warrenton, Oregon
    Posts
    317
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Your under arrest! No YOUR under arrest! No you were under arrest FIRST! No I have the gun!

    Lol Id actually watch that video.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    I would PAY to watch that video. The counter-citizen's arrest is (mostly) in jest, but the first part is serious.

    If that happened here in Oregon, I would verify that he's serious about the citizen's arrest, and then walk him through the procedure. (Recording everything, Oregon is a one party consent state).
    1) Have him formally state that he is placing me under citizen's arrest.
    2) I would acknowledge the arrest and inform him that I will not resist in any way and will quietly await the LEOs.
    3) Have him call the LEOs and notify them that he (state his name) has arrested (my name) and that he needs to by law hand me over to police custody.
    4) I'm pretty sure he can not un-arrest me, should the police dispatch try to talk him into letting me (and the incident) go.
    5) Even if the LEOs, after arriving and taking custody of the situation (and me) talk him into dropping it, I don't have to drop it. I would insist on filing my own incident report, thus forcing them and the guy to file their own reports.
    6) Wait for the DA to drop it, or the courts to drop it.
    7) File charges for false arrest / false imprisonment against him and/or sue in civil court (depending on my lawyer's advice).

    Just my .02c
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

  10. #10
    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Warrenton, Oregon
    Posts
    317
    ... or better yet:

    "Hey, where are you going? You just arrested me, I'm in your custody, you can't just walk away."
    *follow him, not too close but still close enough.*
    "I'm in your custody, you have to take me to the police and turn me over... hey, wait up."
    *heavy breathing* "Slow down, I'm an old, over weight smoker, I can't keep up with you."
    {question, if I had a heart attack right then, while under his arrest / custody, could he be sued by my family for wrongful death?}
    "Dude, you are required by law to turn me over to the police as soon as possible... you're breaking the law, hey get back here."
    ...etc

    At what point do you walk away and "un-arrest" yourself?
    Also, after following him for several blocks waiting for him to hand you over to the police and you walk away, he sees you leave the area and then calls it in and adds on escaping custody as well?

    Sorry, it's a weird night and my brain is jumping sideways, but it's still a fun hypothetical scenario.
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
    “I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." - Tolkien

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    Quote Originally Posted by Super6O View Post
    Might consider an audio recorder for those moments you dont have video going. Would have been gold to hear this pants wetter making threats of "arrest"


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I have been on the other side ... making or threatening a CA. Nothing wrong with threatening ~ a CA is a legal act. If you perform it and actually arrest, this is where one puts himself in the position of having possible civil penalties applied to the person who performs a CA w/o good cause.

    Lord Sega is funny .. I don't think following the guy and then claiming you were in his custody might get much cash. Funny though.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Mercer Island
    Posts
    661
    I was wondering if you'd be out there covering the Maydayhem Rogue.

    If you think that is bad, just wait until the new SPD chief comes in. The final 3 candidates are from CA, MA, and AZ. What is the liklhood they'd pick the AZ one? Low.

    Most likely we'll get the CA guy or the MASS guy, and we both know how those states are with guns. My guess is expect a whole new SPD that bucks state law. Hopefully no OCers get shot in the next decade by SPD.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    With three exceptions, citizen's arrest in Washington is legally identical to the sort of arrest police make.

    The first difference is that a citizen's arrest must be immediate -- police can wait a while to make an arrest, but citizens must make an arrest immediately after witnessing a crime or not at all.

    The second difference is that police making an arrest can disarm the arrested individual no matter who he or she is, but a citizen cannot legally disarm a police officer when arresting the officer without a judge's order or in self-defense if the officer attempts to resist arrest with the weapon.

    The third is that police have qualified immunity to civil lawsuits for actions taken in the line of duty -- if a cop makes a mistake on the law, it may be impossible to sue him. Citizens have no such shield when making arrests.

    Aside from those three differences, citizen's arrest is no different from police arrest for the purposes of things like resisting arrest, escape, etc. If someone tells you you are under arrest, take it VERY seriously! If you attempt to escape, that's a crime. Resisting arrest is also a crime, and the person making the arrest is legally allowed to use what force is necessary to accomplish the arrest, stop resistance and prevent escape. This means that if you don't take it seriously and walk away, you could get tackled and fighting back against the guy adds crimes to the list -- resisting arrest isn't self-defense.

    Note that nothing prevents two people from arresting eachother. Being under arrest does not stop you from making arrests.
    Last edited by Difdi; 05-05-2014 at 06:43 AM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/y...ntent?oid=1816


    City sons arayist! City sons arayist!

    On a serious note.... this funny article says if you convince them.to stay then you cant be held responsible for a false arrest or detainment. Not sure how true that is.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  15. #15
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Also, a Google search pulls up a PDF from Department of Licensing that explains it. It seems legit, cites rcw and the case law that backs it up.



    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  16. #16
    Regular Member leitung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Port Orchard, Washington, USA
    Posts
    151
    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would have told him : go ahead.

    I would like a new car.
    This. Don't threaten me with a good time.

  17. #17
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    White Oak Plantation
    Posts
    12,270
    http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/133.225

    "...has probable cause to believe..."

    Dislike for OC ≠ OC is unlawful. Some cops run into this dilemma on a routine basis in certain jurisdictions.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  18. #18
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    881
    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    If you put a bunch of lawyers in the room but tell them all they need to do to get out and get food and drink is to all agree to turn the doorknob counterclockwise you would find them all dead in a week because they cannot all decide on what is a doorknob

    The second difference is that police making an arrest can disarm the arrested individual no matter who he or she is, but a citizen cannot legally disarm a police officer when arresting the officer without a judge's order or in self-defense if the officer attempts to resist arrest with the weapon.

    The third is that police have qualified immunity to civil lawsuits for actions taken in the line of duty -- if a cop makes a mistake on the law, it may be impossible to sue him. Citizens have no such shield when making arrests.

    Aside from those three differences, citizen's arrest is no different from police arrest for the purposes of things like resisting arrest, escape, etc. If someone tells you you are under arrest, take it VERY seriously! If you attempt to escape, that's a crime. Resisting arrest is also a crime, and the person making the arrest is legally allowed to use what force is necessary to accomplish the arrest, stop resistance and prevent escape. This means that if you don't take it seriously and walk away, you could get tackled and fighting back against the guy adds crimes to the list -- resisting arrest isn't self-defense.


    Note that nothing prevents two people from arresting each other. Being under arrest does not stop you from making arrests.

    This is where is gets very dicey. While you may be technically allowed to Citizen arrest a police officer, what are the chances a cop violating your rights is going to have any respect for a citizens arrest? Citizen arrest may allow you to use extreme force if needed, but when dealing with the police other contradictory laws come into play. Thats not to say I wouldnt try it though. About time people started teaching public servants they are accountable to the citizen and the law.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

    Conservative Broadcast || Google Plus profile

  19. #19
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    This is where is gets very dicey. While you may be technically allowed to Citizen arrest a police officer, what are the chances a cop violating your rights is going to have any respect for a citizens arrest? Citizen arrest may allow you to use extreme force if needed, but when dealing with the police other contradictory laws come into play. Thats not to say I wouldnt try it though. About time people started teaching public servants they are accountable to the citizen and the law.
    Lol

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  20. #20
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doug
    Posts
    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    This is where is gets very dicey. While you may be technically allowed to Citizen arrest a police officer, what are the chances a cop violating your rights is going to have any respect for a citizens arrest? Citizen arrest may allow you to use extreme force if needed, but when dealing with the police other contradictory laws come into play. Thats not to say I wouldnt try it though. About time people started teaching public servants they are accountable to the citizen and the law.

    I give you six months to live.

  21. #21
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doug
    Posts
    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Note that nothing prevents two people from arresting eachother. Being under arrest does not stop you from making arrests.


    I say whoever fights best is the arrestor.

  22. #22
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Doug
    Posts
    1,118
    Rogue, I gave your video it's first thumbs up. Lol. Can I blog this?

  23. #23
    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    996
    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    This is where is gets very dicey. While you may be technically allowed to Citizen arrest a police officer, what are the chances a cop violating your rights is going to have any respect for a citizens arrest? Citizen arrest may allow you to use extreme force if needed, but when dealing with the police other contradictory laws come into play. Thats not to say I wouldnt try it though. About time people started teaching public servants they are accountable to the citizen and the law.
    Agreed. But remember, in Washington state a lawful arrest is a lawful arrest. If it were legal for a police officer to resist arrest and illegal to use force against an arrested police officer, it would be impossible for even police to lawfully arrest a fellow officer -- after all, handcuffing someone is Assault, outside of a lawful arrest.
    Last edited by Difdi; 05-05-2014 at 04:17 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125

    Citizen arrest

    To respond to the question: did dirt bag inform me I was under citizen arrest: as I recall, he did. That is when I started rolling video to have him repeat himself. I welcomed him to try, but he declined to do so. I, of course, would not allow him to physically detain me without having a physical response, but I think he surmised this and knew better than to try.
    When he saw I called his bluff, he tried turning the crowd of "anarchists" against me. I found it humorous that they responded to him about Constitutional freedoms. I don't think mainstream media reports correctly on them. I do know that the biggest population of law breakers, that day, was Seattle Police Department.
    Last edited by RogueReflections; 05-05-2014 at 04:30 PM. Reason: Spelling

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, United States
    Posts
    125

    Re-blog

    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    Rogue, I gave your video it's first thumbs up. Lol. Can I blog this?
    Feel free. Stories need to be shared. I only ask proper credit be given for the original video. I would love to read your blog and see the different responses.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •