Vegassteve
Regular Member
imported post
cato wrote:
cato wrote:
Ok thats a good idea. I gree with you on this.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
D.C. Cops to Lock Down Parts of City, Demand ID from Citizens
- Thread starter bayfire66
- Start date
Vegassteve
Regular Member
imported post
USAF_MetalChris wrote:
USAF_MetalChris wrote:
Ok another good idea.
MetalChris
Regular Member
imported post
^^
My idea is up there somewhere.
To suggest that it's a good idea to violate the Constitution to capture criminals is indeed a neo-conservative approach. Patriot Act anyone?
Vegassteve wrote:
^^
My idea is up there somewhere.
To suggest that it's a good idea to violate the Constitution to capture criminals is indeed a neo-conservative approach. Patriot Act anyone?
Vegassteve wrote:
swillden
Regular Member
imported post
Vegassteve wrote:
If you're asking how to solve the problem -- drop the gun ban and legalize CC to empower the decent citizens left in these pestholes and then legalize drugs, regulate them like alcohol, with vice taxes to fund education and rehab programs. The gangs will dry up and blow away without their prime source of income, and when they go after decent people they'll find themselves outnumbered and outgunned.
You wanted a drastic solution... there ya go! And it's perfectly constitutional.
Vegassteve wrote:
If you're asking how it violates the constitution, well, it violates the hell out of the fourth amendment, for starters. Unreasonable searches, seizures, requirement to produce papers...
If you're asking how to solve the problem -- drop the gun ban and legalize CC to empower the decent citizens left in these pestholes and then legalize drugs, regulate them like alcohol, with vice taxes to fund education and rehab programs. The gangs will dry up and blow away without their prime source of income, and when they go after decent people they'll find themselves outnumbered and outgunned.
You wanted a drastic solution... there ya go! And it's perfectly constitutional.
Evil Ernie
Regular Member
imported post
Vegassteve wrote:
Second the area of DC they are doing this in is not someplace any of us would want to go into anyway.
The capitol building?:celebrate
Vegassteve wrote:
Second the area of DC they are doing this in is not someplace any of us would want to go into anyway.
The capitol building?:celebrate
Vegassteve
Regular Member
imported post
swillden wrote:
I like your solution as well. I do not see this as a infringement of the 4th. There is a very probable cuase for going ino these drug areas.
swillden wrote:
I like your solution as well. I do not see this as a infringement of the 4th. There is a very probable cuase for going ino these drug areas.
Vegassteve
Regular Member
imported post
swillden wrote:
I like your solution as well. I do not see this as a infringement of the 4th. There is a very probable cuase for going ino these drug areas.
swillden wrote:
I like your solution as well. I do not see this as a infringement of the 4th. There is a very probable cuase for going ino these drug areas.
BobCav
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Vegassteve wrote:
Ooh, my pet peeve even when in the Navy. Please be careful with that way of thinking. Though you may not know how to rebuild your car's transmission, you can tell when something is wrong, correct? How would you like it if your mechanic told you to not bring him your transmission problems if you didn't have a solution? Same thing here. There are MANY people that recognize right and wrong without being constitutional lawyers or fine literary statesmen capable of actually effecting change. Love them where they're at as everyone has something to contribute. Sometimes it's on the front lines andsometimes it's in the rear. That statement effectivelykeeps people who recognize a problem from bringing it to light because they don't want to be embarassed because they don't have a solution.
Though someone might not recognize how to fix it, I for one, certainly appreciate ANYONE that at least recognizes that this is wrong. That speaks to their moral character, and not one specific ability.
This is DC's way of fear mongering as a reactionary prelude to the SCOTUS ruling. It's actually quitean admission of their failure in so many ways.
The most effective ways of fixing this are best discussed in private meetings, not on the internet.
Vegassteve wrote:
Ooh, my pet peeve even when in the Navy. Please be careful with that way of thinking. Though you may not know how to rebuild your car's transmission, you can tell when something is wrong, correct? How would you like it if your mechanic told you to not bring him your transmission problems if you didn't have a solution? Same thing here. There are MANY people that recognize right and wrong without being constitutional lawyers or fine literary statesmen capable of actually effecting change. Love them where they're at as everyone has something to contribute. Sometimes it's on the front lines andsometimes it's in the rear. That statement effectivelykeeps people who recognize a problem from bringing it to light because they don't want to be embarassed because they don't have a solution.
Though someone might not recognize how to fix it, I for one, certainly appreciate ANYONE that at least recognizes that this is wrong. That speaks to their moral character, and not one specific ability.
This is DC's way of fear mongering as a reactionary prelude to the SCOTUS ruling. It's actually quitean admission of their failure in so many ways.
The most effective ways of fixing this are best discussed in private meetings, not on the internet.
Vegassteve
Regular Member
imported post
BobCav wrote:
BobCav wrote:
People who think the way you describe are just dumb then. You idea of the car though does not fit here. Your taking the car to someplace that is there to fix it. There is nothing wrong with someone pointing out problems. The issue comes into play when folks just bitch and moan. Which is what I observe here on this forum ALOT.I get tired of fear mongers who are on our side as well, or so they say, like Alex Jones.All it does for us is people look at us as a group of nuts.
BobCav
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Vegassteve wrote:
Not dumb, perhaps just beat down and conditioned into thinking they can't make a difference. Yeah,the car analogy wasn't a perfect fit because I all too often heard "Don't bring me a problem if you don't have a solution". This is a bit different. I agree, discussion is always good and can lead to some incredible ideas, but excessive bitching and moaning doesn't solve anything.The time spent complaining on forums would be best spent in writing letters to the people responsible and expressing your opinon.
Trust me, Cathy Lanier isn't reading this threadand rethinking her strategy because the folks over on OCDO don't think it's a good idea!
Vegassteve wrote:
Not dumb, perhaps just beat down and conditioned into thinking they can't make a difference. Yeah,the car analogy wasn't a perfect fit because I all too often heard "Don't bring me a problem if you don't have a solution". This is a bit different. I agree, discussion is always good and can lead to some incredible ideas, but excessive bitching and moaning doesn't solve anything.The time spent complaining on forums would be best spent in writing letters to the people responsible and expressing your opinon.
Trust me, Cathy Lanier isn't reading this threadand rethinking her strategy because the folks over on OCDO don't think it's a good idea!
swillden
Regular Member
imported post
Vegassteve wrote:
Vegassteve wrote:
Probable cause doesn't apply to whole sections of cities, it applies to individuals. It also requires specific evidence and general knowledge that there are a log of drugs in the area doesn't qualify.
imported post
Now... I completely understand why they are doing it. Crime in DC is offthe charts!! There is pretty much NOTHING they can do to keep it in check. The city is full of criminals.
But I would be interested in knowing under what authority theyare requesting ID cardsfrom people just walking down the street. I do not recall a law being enacted to allow them to do it.
I know I would be pissed if they asked me. Only because it is a waste of my time.
But I am sure I will not be in those neighborhoods where they have all the problems.
Now... I completely understand why they are doing it. Crime in DC is offthe charts!! There is pretty much NOTHING they can do to keep it in check. The city is full of criminals.
But I would be interested in knowing under what authority theyare requesting ID cardsfrom people just walking down the street. I do not recall a law being enacted to allow them to do it.
I know I would be pissed if they asked me. Only because it is a waste of my time.
But I am sure I will not be in those neighborhoods where they have all the problems.
bayfire66
Regular Member
imported post
Vegassteve wrote:
Vegassteve wrote:
Excuse me Alex Jones is not a crack radio show host most of the info he has on his site is from media sources he does not make this stuff up you know.
bayfire66
Regular Member
imported post
Well maybe if they let legal gun owners own guns there would not be as much crime ? Vermont has the lowest rate of crime in the nation and everyone can pack there,GO figure.
Well maybe if they let legal gun owners own guns there would not be as much crime ? Vermont has the lowest rate of crime in the nation and everyone can pack there,GO figure.
imperialism2024
Regular Member
imported post
USAF_MetalChris wrote:
You'll find that many of us here are more comfortable with the police letting 10 guilty people walk than 1 innocent person be convicted.
Remember, to half of the country, we gun owners are "thugs", even moreso the ones who open carry their guns.
USAF_MetalChris wrote:
Yup, speak for yourself, Vegassteve.
You'll find that many of us here are more comfortable with the police letting 10 guilty people walk than 1 innocent person be convicted.
Remember, to half of the country, we gun owners are "thugs", even moreso the ones who open carry their guns.
possumboy
Regular Member
imported post
LEO 229 wrote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060402205.html?sub=AR
I can see how they will get away with demanding IDs of drivers in cars. Under the current laws, they can demand driver's permits if the person is driving. They will also turn you away if you don't not have a valid "reason" for being there.
"...check drivers' identification and ask whether they have a "legitimate purpose" to be in the Trinidad area, such as going to a doctor or church or visiting friends or relatives. If not, the drivers will be turned away."
The part that gets me is if you refused to be search. What will the consider "suspect"? Will my used targets in my back seat provide reasonable suspicion? How about all the cars that have NRA, VCDL, or protected by S&W stickers?
"The checkpoint will stop vehicles approaching the 1400 block of Montello Avenue NE, a section of the Trinidad neighborhood that has been plagued with homicides and other violence. Police will search cars if they suspect the presence of guns or drugs, and will arrest people who do not cooperate, under a charge of failure to obey a police officer, officials said. "
LEO 229 wrote:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060402205.html?sub=AR
I can see how they will get away with demanding IDs of drivers in cars. Under the current laws, they can demand driver's permits if the person is driving. They will also turn you away if you don't not have a valid "reason" for being there.
"...check drivers' identification and ask whether they have a "legitimate purpose" to be in the Trinidad area, such as going to a doctor or church or visiting friends or relatives. If not, the drivers will be turned away."
The part that gets me is if you refused to be search. What will the consider "suspect"? Will my used targets in my back seat provide reasonable suspicion? How about all the cars that have NRA, VCDL, or protected by S&W stickers?
"The checkpoint will stop vehicles approaching the 1400 block of Montello Avenue NE, a section of the Trinidad neighborhood that has been plagued with homicides and other violence. Police will search cars if they suspect the presence of guns or drugs, and will arrest people who do not cooperate, under a charge of failure to obey a police officer, officials said. "
imperialism2024
Regular Member
imported post
Yup, I'm definately thinking that a trip to DC is in order....
Yup, I'm definately thinking that a trip to DC is in order....
imported post
I've been told that I "had no business" in certain areas after being stopped by police (to which I said "my business is just that - my business"), so this is just an extreme form of the same thing. I, for one, am disgusted and would refuse to justify my presence or reasons for being in a certain area if confronted with this nonsense. As for getting arrested for refusing to submit to an arbitrary search, I think that speaks for itself. The third amendment of the Bill of Rights (regarding the quartering of troops) looks to be the only one still observed.
-ljp
I've been told that I "had no business" in certain areas after being stopped by police (to which I said "my business is just that - my business"), so this is just an extreme form of the same thing. I, for one, am disgusted and would refuse to justify my presence or reasons for being in a certain area if confronted with this nonsense. As for getting arrested for refusing to submit to an arbitrary search, I think that speaks for itself. The third amendment of the Bill of Rights (regarding the quartering of troops) looks to be the only one still observed.
-ljp