D.C. Cops to Lock Down Parts of City, Demand ID from Citizens

[LEO 229]

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Link taken from

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=11551&forum_id=4



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/04/AR2008060402205_pf.html

 

[Walleye]

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Wait, if they're stopping people driving in cars, then they have a big vehicular manslaughter problem?

:?

 

[unreconstructed1]

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Legba wrote:

The third amendment of the Bill of Rights (regarding the quartering of troops) looks to be the only one still observed.

-ljp

for now, but just wait till patriot act 3, or 4, or 5.....

 

[imperialism2024]

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unreconstructed1 wrote:

Legba wrote:

The third amendment of the Bill of Rights (regarding the quartering of troops) looks to be the only one still observed.

-ljp

for now, but just wait till patriot act 3, or 4, or 5.....

But... but... but... if we don't vote for McCain, it will be a vote for the DEMOCRATS!!!!! And we can't let that happen! And what are you afraid of, if you don't have anything to hide?

:uhoh:

 

[ODA 226]

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possumboy wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

News just reported the DC Policeare stoppingcars only.

Anyone found in the area that does not live there will have to answer why.

The neighborhood has a rash of shootings.

"...check drivers' identification and ask whether they have a "legitimate purpose" to be in the Trinidad area, such as going to a doctor or church or visiting friends or relatives. If not, the drivers will be turned away."


"The checkpoint will stop vehicles approaching the 1400 block of Montello Avenue NE, a section of the Trinidad neighborhood that has been plagued with homicides and other violence. Police will search cars if they suspect the presence of guns or drugs, and will arrest people who do not cooperate, under a charge of failure to obey a police officer, officials said. "

So they announce the checkpoint in advance so the BG's know NOT to be in that area and that time? STUPID! This is nothing more than an illegal intelligence gathering tool. They will coerce and intimidate innocent civilians that may know something about the BG's operations, into talking. This is also intended to "showcase" the new DC "Patrol Rifles" and other equipment to the press. (Ever notice that civilian semi-auto's are called "assault rifles" while the same weapons issued to the police are call "patrol rifles or carbines"?

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CONFRONTING and ARRESTING CRIMINALS!

Oh yeah BTW: When does a citizen of the USA have to obey orders from a police officer that is conducting an illegal activity? The answer is NEVER!

 

[Legba]

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As sickened as I am to say it, they may have legal standing to do this. The courts have upheld the legality of sobriety checkpoints as an enforcement method as long as they are announced ahead of time (as this was) and applied either universally (stopping everyone) or randomly (to avoid profiling). Especially given that it excludes pedestrians, it is not a bar to someone going to this neighborhood altogether.

Still, hardly the spirit behind the words of our founding fathers, eh? I'd make up some fantastically insulting lie if I were there - make a point of saying I'm going to a black church or something as I drive my lilly-white arse right through the hood. What can they say? They still profess to respect the right of freedom of religion, if not of free assembly/association.

-ljp

 

[imperialism2024]

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Legba wrote:

As sickened as I am to say it, they may have legal standing to do this. The courts have upheld the legality of sobriety checkpoints as an enforcement method as long as they are announced ahead of time (as this was) and applied either universally (stopping everyone) or randomly (to avoid profiling). Especially given that it excludes pedestrians, it is not a bar to someone going to this neighborhood altogether.

You bring up a good point.

Congratulations to DC for helping to make their criminals the most physically fit, by encouraging them to walk instead of drive to their places of crime. :celebrate

 

[Felid`Maximus]

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ODA 226 wrote:

Oh yeah BTW: When does a citizen of the USA have to obey orders from a police officer that is conducting an illegal activity? The answer is NEVER!

True, but good luck convincing them or the judge that it was illegal activity.


I should be able to walk around in D.C. with a loaded fully automatic unregistered M16, and then be able to refuse to comply with the police due to the second amendment, but I have a feeling I would end up with a lot of free time over the next 10 or 15 years to think about how they violated my constitutional rights.

 

[ODA 226]

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Legba wrote:

As sickened as I am to say it, they may have legal standing to do this. The courts have upheld the legality of sobriety checkpoints as an enforcement method as long as they are announced ahead of time (as this was) and applied either universally (stopping everyone) or randomly (to avoid profiling). Especially given that it excludes pedestrians, it is not a bar to someone going to this neighborhood altogether.

Still, hardly the spirit behind the words of our founding fathers, eh? I'd make up some fantastically insulting lie if I were there - make a point of saying I'm going to a black church or something as I drive my lilly-white arse right through the hood. What can they say? They still profess to respect the right of freedom of religion, if not of free assembly/association.

-ljp

I say they don't have a legal standing to do this. Where does it end? If this abuse of police authority is allowed to continue, the next thing you know the police will be setting up Identification Check Points just to verify that you are a US citizen, all for our "protection" from terrorists of course.

Being thesuspicious SOB that I am, I feel that the "Officer Protection Act" is the first step in establishing a "National" police force.

Illegal checkpoints are becoming more and more common in our country and if we true and law abiding citizens do not question authority, the United States will become a more dangerous version of Hitler's Germany.

 

[Legba]

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Too late. Our rather colorful local sheriff has already indicated that he wants to do spot checks of people's citizenship, to get rid of the undocumented immigrants locally. Will look for a link. In any case, I will not submit. He already has a copy of my FFL if he wants documents from me.

I agree that they shouldn't be able to do any of this, but these incremental erosions of liberty by the courts are making it possible.

-ljp

p.s. here's the 1st link I could find. It doesn't provide details, and I don't know if they've started this "papieren, bitte"/"dokumenta, pazhalsta" routine yet, but it may be coming to a town near you... http://community.muohio.edu/writingcontest/node/140.

 

[Doug Huffman]

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ODA 226 wrote:

I say they don't have a legal standing to do this. Where does it end? If this abuse of police authority is allowed to continue, the next thing you know the police will be setting up Identification Check Points just to verify that you are a US citizen, all for our "protection" from terrorists of course.

Being thesuspicious SOB that I am, I feel that the "Officer Protection Act" is the first step in establishing a "National" police force.

Illegal checkpoints are becoming more and more common in our country and if we true and law abiding citizens do not question authority, the United States will become a more dangerous version of Hitler's Germany.

https://www.checkpointusa.org/

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

 

[UTOC-45-44]

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Legba wrote:

Too late. Our rather colorful local sheriff has already indicated that he wants to do spot checks of people's citizenship, to get rid of the undocumented immigrants locally. Will look for a link. In any case, I will not submit. He already has a copy of my FFL if he wants documents from me.

I agree that they shouldn't be able to do any of this, but these incremental erosions of liberty by the courts are making it possible.

-ljp

This is the 21st century version of Hitler German on the way...I wonder what Hilter is doing in his grave right now. I bet he is smiling BIG. and I am frowning BIG:X. I wonder what he would have said when he was alive if the Q was given to him.

-" Adolf...,what is your response if you somehow knew that the U.S, your BIGGEST threat today, will undergo the exact same "Papieren Bitte" strategy as you do today" in half a century away?



:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

TJ

 

[UTOC-45-44]

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Doug Huffman wrote:

ODA 226 wrote:

I say they don't have a legal standing to do this. Where does it end? If this abuse of police authority is allowed to continue, the next thing you know the police will be setting up Identification Check Points just to verify that you are a US citizen, all for our "protection" from terrorists of course.

Being thesuspicious SOB that I am, I feel that the "Officer Protection Act" is the first step in establishing a "National" police force.

Illegal checkpoints are becoming more and more common in our country and if we true and law abiding citizens do not question authority, the United States will become a more dangerous version of Hitler's Germany.

https://www.checkpointusa.org/

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

2008-02-25

16:26:02, Categories: Privacy, News, Homeland Security?, 1881 words

[suB][suP]Homeland Security Says Prove Your Citizenship On Demand Or Face Deportation[/suP][/suB]

In light of suspicionless Homeland Security checkpoints being conducted in the interior of the country, the story depicted below is especially disturbing.

It appears that well over 100 U.S. Citizens were recently discovered sitting in Homeland Security Detention facilities around the country awaiting deportation orders after being denied access to counsel.

According to the organization that conducted the 2006 study, the 125 individuals idenitifed as having credible claims of U.S. citizenship are most likely just the tip of the iceberg given the huge number of individuals detained every year.

A quote from ICE spokeswoman Kice sums up the current state of affairs:

"The burden of proof is on the individual to show they're legally entitled to be in the United States"
​

Keep in mind that this story isn't about individuals attempting to enter the country. This story is about individuals already here. As such, let the implications of that statement sink in for just a minute....

"The burden of proof is on the individual to show they're legally entitled to be in the United States"​

Now imagine taking a stroll around your neighborhood. Perhaps you're out walking your dog or just hiking over to the nearest grocery store. Suddenly you're approached by burly men in green uniforms with guns and federal badges who demand that you prove your citizenship.

Don't think it could happen? You may want to ask residents in and around Phoenix, San Diego, & Los Angeles whether or not it could happen.

I guess that simple question regarding citizenship status being imposed on travelers absent reasonable suspicion in the interior of the country away from any international border isn't quite so simple after all.

Read more!

 

[UTOC-45-44]

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Doug Huffman wrote:

ODA 226 wrote:

I say they don't have a legal standing to do this. Where does it end? If this abuse of police authority is allowed to continue, the next thing you know the police will be setting up Identification Check Points just to verify that you are a US citizen, all for our "protection" from terrorists of course.

Being thesuspicious SOB that I am, I feel that the "Officer Protection Act" is the first step in establishing a "National" police force.

Illegal checkpoints are becoming more and more common in our country and if we true and law abiding citizens do not question authority, the United States will become a more dangerous version of Hitler's Germany.

https://www.checkpointusa.org/

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA KMA$$

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[align=center]"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall NOT be violated..."[/align][/align]


[align=center]
[align=justify]Ever since SCOTUS first opened Pandora's box in the late 1970's by carving out a 4th Amendment loophole for immigration checkpoints, the use of suspicionless checkpoints across the country has continued to proliferate at an alarming rate. Today, it's not uncommon to find enforcement agencies across the country utilizing roadblocks of one form or another to control local communities and create new revenue streams for politicians and bureaucrats. [/align]
[align=justify]While roadblocks are conducted under a number of different guises, they all share a common set of traits. Specifically, they: [/align]

• 
  [align=justify]Operate with no individualized reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing[/align]
• 
  [align=justify]Seek to control and intimidate local communities as opposed to serve and protect them [/align]
• 
  [align=justify]Raise revenue for expanding government programs through fines, citations & arrest [/align]

[align=justify]The links below explore some of the more common types of roadblocks being wielded against the traveling public through first hand accounts, newspaper articles, case histories and documentation. Many of the specific incidents provided below show a pattern of contempt for individual rights and the rule of law as enforcement agencies setup roadblocks under the false premise of public safety while conducting dragnet enforcement operations indistinguishable from general crime control:[/align]




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[align=justify]For real time discussion regarding suspicionless checkpoints, checkout this website's blog at Roadblock Revelations. [/align]
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[UTOC-45-44]

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[align=justify]"Who will govern the governors? There is only one force in the nation that can be depended upon to keep the government pure and the governors honest, and that is the people themselves. They alone, if well informed, are capable of preventing the corruption of power, and of restoring the nation to its rightful course if it should go astray. They alone are the safest depository of the ultimate powers of government" [/align]
- Thomas Jefferson

 

[deepdiver]

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UTOC-45-44 wrote:

Now imagine taking a stroll around your neighborhood. Perhaps you're out walking your dog or just hiking over to the nearest grocery store. Suddenly you're approached by burly men in green uniforms with guns and federal badges who demand that you prove your citizenship.

Don't think it could happen? You may want to ask residents in and around Phoenix, San Diego, & Los Angeles whether or not it could happen.

I guess that simple question regarding citizenship status being imposed on travelers absent reasonable suspicion in the interior of the country away from any international border isn't quite so simple after all.

No problem. Take about 3 seconds. In MO you have to prove citizenship/legal residency to obtain any DL or State ID every time you get one. By virtue of having both I have double proof as to my citizenship/legal residency by statute. I have a photocopy of my birth certificate I have taken to carrying when out of state "just in case" as a backup to the DL & ID. Add my CCW on top of that and I have thorough proof that I am legally here and not a criminal.

If every state required proof of citizenship/legal residency to obtain a DL or state ID and always had, this wouldn't even be coming up as an issue. It is scofflaws and states that hand out DLs and IDs to illegals like candy that has led to a draconian solution to what never should have been a problem in the first place. Not saying it is the best solution, but then again, I have a hard time feeling sorry for those living in illegal immigrant friendly areas being inconvenienced in what amounts to a direct response to their community standards of harboring criminals and a voting record supporting scofflaw action. *shrug*

 

[Legba]

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I can prove I'm a citizen, no problem: state-issued driver's license, certified copy of birth certificate, and a passport - none of which I will be showing any deputy sheriff accosting me asking me to "prove" my innocence about anything. I am innocent by default, and if they wish to claim otherwise, let them go through channels and prefer a charge against me.

-ljp

 

[Citizen]

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My articulation of my 4th-6th Amendment rights is the only proof he's going to get. If that doesn't convince him, I'll be sure to point out his complete stupidity in a Letter to the Editor.

 

[thewise1]

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Vegassteve wrote:

swillden wrote:

Vegassteve wrote:

Ok since it violates the constitution, please cite how, again quick to toss this around but no one ever seems to back it up, what would you do? we are quick to complain but not very quick to offer solutions.

If you're asking how it violates the constitution, well, it violates the hell out of the fourth amendment, for starters. Unreasonable searches, seizures, requirement to produce papers...

If you're asking how to solve the problem -- drop the gun ban and legalize CC to empower the decent citizens left in these pestholes and then legalize drugs, regulate them like alcohol, with vice taxes to fund education and rehab programs. The gangs will dry up and blow away without their prime source of income, and when they go after decent people they'll find themselves outnumbered and outgunned.

You wanted a drastic solution... there ya go! And it's perfectly constitutional.

I like your solution as well. I do not see this as a infringement of the 4th. There is a very probable cuase for going ino these drug areas.

And this is why you're being called a neocon, because neocons can always justify pushing the limits on violating the constitution, unless it's 2) Guns.

 

[BobCav]

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Legba wrote:

I can prove I'm a citizen, no problem: state-issued driver's license, certified copy of birth certificate, and a passport - none of which I will be showing any deputy sheriff accosting me asking me to "prove" my innocence about anything. I am innocent by default, and if they wish to claim otherwise, let them go through channels and prefer a charge against me.

-ljp

I wonder what they would do if oh, say 5000 LAC's decided to go for a stroll.