imported post
Sylvia Plath wrote:
"If Healthcare for all American's is seriously thought of as tyranny then the political discourse and the ignorance coming from the right has truly jumped the rails of anything rational."
While health care is a noble issue, the ignorance is those who think the nobility of an issue overcomes the legal and constitutional restraints of the Federal government imposing it on society.
Just because something is humane and compassionate doesn't make it the government's responsibility or put it within the realm of the governments power.
I disagree that requiring the government to work within the laws and constraints placed upon it by the Constitution is irrational. The tyranny is not health care, it is how it is coming to be with the exercise of powers NOT given to the congress. To confuse the two is in kind to the "If it saves just one child..." argument that has been used repeatedly to usurp RIGHTS.
I am all for universal health care SO LONG as it is done in a legitimate fashion. Even is popular, it doesn't matter if it is against the Law. Our Constitution was set to protect rights from the very things which may be popular, but are not right.
To say something should be so because it is popular would be to excuse racism, slavery, and a host of other things that were popular at a time.
Sylvia Plath wrote:
"I have to say that the biggest failure of the "right" was keeping theirflock under control. Posters with our President looking like Hitler, Stalin, etc. are counterproductive and there is a price to pay for that type of disrespect for the office of the greatest, most powerful nation on Earth. Hopefully the right will spend more time offering up ideas than encouraging their flock to engage in misinformation campaigns and scare tactics.
Do not be mistaken, America is currently in a social war that is going to determine the future of America. Healthcare is just one of many battles that are going to be won and lost on both sides. This is just the beginning."
Yes, but the stereotyping of Tea-Party folks as redneck racists and labeling Republicans as the "Party of NO" were just as wrong. There is enough subterfuge to go around and it is all a distraction from the basic core issues and concerns. The idea that one side can blame the other while at the same time ignoring their own lapses of decorum is a bit elitist and arrogant.
The politicians who decided to violate long standing processes, ignore legitimate debate, and practice a scorched earth campaign to win at any cost (bribe, special deal, whatever...) are equally disrespectful of their office and the oath they took upon entering it. Look how hard they fought to "Blame" the republicans, while they may have made some minor concessions, they made no attempt at actual bi-partisan work to find a better option. They could not easily pass it with overwhelming majorities in both houses AND a democrat president. Yet it is the Republicans fault it couldn't pass sooner? Sorry, that just doesn't make sense.
Sylvia Plath wrote:
"I don't beleive that anyone should have access to or be entitled to other people's wealth. Healthcare for everyone has nothing to do with people's wealth. it has to do with the lack of access and affordable health, something that is surely going to be fixed. Maybe I am a bit of an optimist."
Then I suggest you are a hypocrite. Healthcare is a commodity, a service, a product. Yes, there certainly are problems that manifest themselves in access and cost. Supply, demand, overhead, etc. the same factors in any market. If you tax others to pay for those without, you are taking their "wealth". I fear that people have no idea what will happen to the system. Those that pay, will pay more and receive less as they subsidize those who do not pay (or pay their share).
There is no "free lunch" many of the changes, while good intent will bring costs. I prefer not to have high premiums to cover my adult children, yet we will all pay a share of the increases for the benefits that others receive.
If you wish to improve access and affordability, than correct the items that cause those problems, don't keep the basic system in place and dump 30 million more users into it along with restrictions or new requirements that increase the costs and problems. It will magnify the problems before it could ever hope to fix them.
Sylvia Plath wrote:
"If you make more that 200k a year as an individual or 250k a year as a family then you are going to be taxed. Does that meet the threshold of "redistribution of wealth" not even close IMO.
If the Fed's were to pass a law that required anyone who makes 200k+ a year to hand over 80% of their income in order to "redistribute" the funds equally amongst all American's I would be completely against that. But those are apples and oranges. "
The great fallacy of the Obama campaign. Only the "rich" and the businesses will be taxed, profit is bad. First off, while businesses pay taxes, it is really the customers who pay them as they are a "cost" factored into the price of the goods and services. The tax is simply passed thorough. The end user is the one who pays it.
"Wealth" is relative. I make $70K a year, not poverty to be sure, but there are times I have to go without a luxury or opt for the cheap cut of meat. The person who earns $250K does just that, they EARN it. If they did what the person who earns $35K do, than maybe there would be an argument, but that isn't the case.
What happens when those who do earn that money get tired of paying more than their "fair" share and decide it is no longer worth it? Or the economy continues to fall and they no longer make it. Now we have a system based on something that is no longer there (much like WA state funding so much with "sin" taxes, then being surprised when folks cut back on booze, tobacco etc and now there is no money to spend...).
It is a regressive system. The entitlement mentality is as much to blame for destroying this country as those "profiteering" insurance companies and bankers. Low cost universal health care is just one more entitlement that cannot sustain itself. Destined and doomed from the outset, sold like snake oil to unwitting buyers entranced by the hype.
Of course you would be against such an open and honest plan, everyone would be. That is why the plans have to be more complicated and devious. To hide the tru provisions and costs. It is smoke, mirrors, and misdirection.
Sylvia Plath wrote:
"Socialism exists in many aspects of America. Your daughter going to high school, unless it was a private school, is a socialist program. My daughter has home schooling, does this mean we are less "socialist" than some of my fellow open-carriers? We are surrounded by socialism.
The problem with throwing the term socialism around so loosely is that it loses its intended effect. Personally I am confident in the direction of America and believe that a better society is a society that cares for all people."
Don't confuse a "public" system with a socialist one. While the government manages the public education system, it is done with guidance, oversight and approval of the voters. We decide though a process on the curriculum, the funding, etc. It is not mandated and passed down from the politburo. If it was the socialist program you want to believe it is, you wouldn't have the option of homeschooling or private school.
If our politicians cared for "all people", they would support and champion all to attain their highest possible level of individual excellence and reward their efforts for doing so. To define a minimum "acceptable" level and then work directly or indirectly to homogenize everyone to that level is not to care for "all" but to care for the "collective".
If I get the same as anyone else, where is the incentive or reward to work harder, do better, or reach higher? While you certainly may raise some, you drag down many, many more.
Charity is a morality issue, not a governmental one.
The PEOPLE of this country consistently provide more charity to our own people as well as those of other countries on a per capita basis, than ANY other country. It most certainly can be accomplished without the government getting involved.
The problem is the growing segment of society who feel they are somehow deserving of something for nothing and all of the good-intentioned programs put in place over the years that have bred such entitlement mentality and are bankrupting future generations.
Look at ANY immigrant to this country and even in the face of all the difficulties of learning our system, our language, discrimination, cultural differences, etc. The majority of them are hard working and HAPPY to have the simple opportunity at a CHANCE of working and success. Yet, so many of our own citizens have next to NO work ethic and the idea that by simply existing, they should have everything handed to them.
America will never fall to a foreign power, we are destined to destroy ourselves. It will be done slowly, incrementally, while people focus on other things. Make no mistake, when it is done, there will still be the rich, the powerful, and the elite. They only difference is they will be people of power in the "Party" as opposed to titans of industry or private enterprise.
