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Arts Beats and Eats

PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Michigander said:
As I read preemption, they don't even have a right to rent city property temporarily with a no guns clause. My suspicion is that they damn well knew it when they signed it.

I doubt they would try to prosecute anyone, but it seems like a feel good attempt to fool people. This forum has become quite a watchdog of self defense rights. Dare I say, it has filled in the MCRGO void, and without the need for professional lawyers, instead having well rounded activists. :D
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I have electronic evidence (email) that the Royal Oak City Attorney, David Gilliam, was fully aware that MI Preemption caused one of their other ordinances to be partially unenforceable as of 10/01/2009 at 9:10:43 AM (Royal Oak Civil Emergencies Ordinance - 251). The contract between the City Of Royal Oak and ABE was signed on 12/08/2009.

Due to the interaction with scot623 and the delay in resolving Ordinance 251 issues, I believe that the City Attorney needs to called out in public - gently but firmly. It is my hope that we can accomplish this while bringing the issues to the attention of the City Commission.
 
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scot623

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
Commission member Terry Drinkwine is no friend of the second amendment. I clearly pointed out how the specific clause in the AB&E agreement violated mcl 123.1102. Then clearly pointed out how 28.425o only pertained to concealed weapons(cpl holding ocers would be exempt) and the fact that the entire festival grounds didn't qualify as an "entertainment facility" based on an Attorney General Granholm opinion(this is the city attorneys plan to use 28.425o to declare the festival grounds a pfz). After all that, this guy asks me where I live,(must not want anyone outside of Royal Oak coming to AB&E), asks me if I'm a lawyer(must not trust a citizen with a better grasp on firearm laws than his own city attorney), he then asks me "IF I EXPECT THE CITY TO LET EVERYONE BRING GUNS TO AB&E?!!!!!" I said I don't expect you to allow anything, State law already allows it". The Mayor jumped in and stopped the dialog. The video should be posted in a day or two. I feel a follow up visit is very much in order to be sure they correct the contract.
 
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lapeer20m

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
928
Location
Near Lapeer (Hadley), Michigan, USA
I didn't get an exact count, but i think there was about 8 of us there tonight oc'ing. My guess is that they don't normally have a police officer present at the meetings, but they did tonight. The presentation went well. The one member of the city council as stated above is very anti-gun. He had a lot of sarcasm when he complimented one of our members on how impressed he was with his firearm.

It will be interesting to see if they change the contract.
 
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Michigander

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
lapeer20m said:
It will be interesting to see if they change the contract.
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Who cares? They can't stop you, or anyone else from OCing where legal in Royal Oak, and that includes the large numbers of us that will be showing up for the event in question. If they give anyone any crap, they would stand to get the bajesus sued out of them. They know it, but they're bitter about it.

This picture goes out to you, Royal Oak.
 

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scot623

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Oct 2, 2009
Messages
1,421
Location
Eastpointe, Michigan, USA
What about the gun owners who are not as well versed in the laws as we are who will walk up to the entrance, see "NO FIREARMS" and turn around to go home or disarm? These contracts have to be made void so the public is not misled as to what is legal. How many festival attendees are going to run to security or the police when they see an OCer in an event that has a "NO FIREARMS" sign at the entrance?
 
eastmeyers

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
scot623 said:
What about the gun owners who are not as well versed in the laws as we are who will walk up to the entrance, see "NO FIREARMS" and turn around to go home or disarm? These contracts have to be made void so the public is not misled as to what is legal. How many festival attendees are going to run to security or the police when they see an OCer in an event that has a "NO FIREARMS" sign at the entrance?
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Couldn't agree more!
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
Well, I for one am very glad he was impressed with my firearm. You know, I really went out of my way to make sure that occurred.

/SARCASM OFF

There were 8 total who were OC'ing tonight. Scot623 did a great job with his presentation. I was a little nervous going up to the podium in the first place, let alone after the "break in decorum" by Commissioner Drinkwine (you could tell by how I spoke). After you guys left, Commissioner Drinkwine kept giving me the "stink eye" until I left at 9:30 pm. I was not followed out by the Royal Oak Police Officer who was in attendance.

Right before I left, Commissioner Drinkwine made an off-hand comment about something "being OK as long as he was carrying a pistol in the open". To which, another Commissioner joked back "unless you are at Arts, Beats, and Eats, apparently". Most of the commissioners laughed at this, except for Mayor Jim Ellison who stated "Well, they have provided some things for us to think about" and moved the commission meeting on.

I was contacted by a member of the media before I left, to whom I gave my contact information. I am not sure that I will be the best person to talk about this right now - I am pissed off, not by inaction of the City Commission, but by their total lack of regard for the rights of We The People.
 
PDinDetroit

PDinDetroit

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2009
Messages
2,328
Location
SE, Michigan, USA
eastmeyers said:
Well one thing they for sure did do right was a prayer and the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of the meeting. AWESOME!
:D
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That part was good, I wholeheartedly agree.

However, how is one to view that pledge with the actions of the City Commissioners tonight? I, for one, wonder if was just "words only" to them...

I am probably being too harsh, but only time will tell and I have Monday Nights free for City Commission Meetings until I find out.
 
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wiggles

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
3
Location
Detroit
I know this probably isnt the best spot to say hello to the forum, but I found this thread while searching the net to find out if i could open carry ON MY PROPERTY. I had a run in with someone in the neighborhood today defending his 12 year old kid, whom i almost ran over with my car because he is zipping around on a moped. He threatened me, and here i am. I must say my mind is officially blown and I had never heard of OC being legal before. This thread particularly caught my eye because I work in royal oak. If that nutcase had gone off his rocker about 5 hours sooner i would have been at the meeting with you guys, unarmed at the moment because i have no guns, but behind you.
 
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autosurgeon

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2008
Messages
3,831
Location
Lawrence, Michigan, United States
wiggles said:
I know this probably isnt the best spot to say hello to the forum, but I found this thread while searching the net to find out if i could open carry ON MY PROPERTY. I had a run in with someone in the neighborhood today defending his 12 year old kid, whom i almost ran over with my car because he is zipping around on a moped. He threatened me, and here i am. I must say my mind is officially blown and I had never heard of OC being legal before. This thread particularly caught my eye because I work in royal oak. If that nutcase had gone off his rocker about 5 hours sooner i would have been at the meeting with you guys, unarmed at the moment because i have no guns, but behind you.
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Welcome Sir

And PM inbound with links where you can start reading the legal stuff you need to know before you OC or purchase a gun!
 
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wiggles

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
3
Location
Detroit
autosurgeon said:
Welcome Sir

And PM inbound with links where you can start reading the legal stuff you need to know before you OC or purchase a gun!
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Thank you for the hospitality. My poor girlfriend was in tears because she thought she did the right thing and stood up to the guy. I lived in cass corridor and was a roommate of a dpd officer, so i kind of learned how to talk to people. She's new to the city. Anyhow, I look forward to reading. Thanks again.
 
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army74

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Pontiac, Michigan, USA
Royal Oak

The next council meeting i will be at just let me know when it is. I will be in attendance at AB&E in september. I happen to know Johnathaon Wintz who runs ab&e. It seems like Royal Oak is another Pontiac lol
 
eastmeyers

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
PDinDetroit said:
That part was good, I wholeheartedly agree.

However, how is one to view that pledge with the actions of the City Commissioners tonight? I, for one, wonder if was just "words only" to them...

I am probably being too harsh, but only time will tell and I have Monday Nights free for City Commission Meetings until I find out.
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I defiantly plan on being their along side you brother. I am sorry I had to leave before the meeting was over, but the girlfriend had gotten off early and I missed 7 calls (because my phone was on silent) I was suppose to meet her at Beaumont to see her new god son. I will stay to the end with you for now on (schedule allowing) every Monday night until we see some progress.

Welcome wiggles
 
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wiggles

New member
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
3
Location
Detroit
eastmeyers said:
Welcome wiggles
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Thank you.

My girlfriends little sister (im editing this because i should have said niece, her sister is pregnant.) was due between june 22 and july 7. I will be making the same trip as you very soon, although i have to drive all the way to belleville.
 
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detroit_fan

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
eastmeyers said:
Well one thing they for sure did do right was a prayer and the pledge of allegiance at the beginning of the meeting. AWESOME!
:D
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I guess that's your view if your religious, but for a lot of us saying a prayer at a government meeting is not appropriate. Religion has no place in government, it's the reason why we have so many stupid laws on the books already.

Good job on the presentation guys, it's a shame they think rights are a joking matter.
 
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eastmeyers

eastmeyers

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
1,363
Location
Hazel Park, Michigan, USA
detroit_fan said:
I guess that's your view if your religious, but for a lot of us saying a prayer at a government meeting is not appropriate. Religion has no place in government, it's the reason why we have so many stupid laws on the books already.

Good job on the presentation guys, it's a shame they think rights are a joking matter.
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This country was founded on Christian beliefs, we were given freedom of religion, but that does not mean that religion did not play a major roll in the founding and running of this country. The separation of church and state is not something our founding fathers wanted or it would have been written into the constitution, instead it is just the ACLU forcing their views into our public. You may do your own research on this, but please have some facts to base your statements on before posting. I will get you started to show good faith, please see this link, http://toptenproofs.com/product_ach.php Thank you for your time.
I am not posting this to be rude, I just thought that if I was being called out on the carpet without substance that I have a duty to stand up for my self. I understand how you may come to your conclusion seeing as how the media has portrayed for years that the separation of church and state is correct, and in many text books within public schools it also lists the separation of church and state. The fact is that when the ACLU first began to attack religion, groups like the ADF (Alliance Defense Fund) were not yet around to help to KEEP our rights alive.
Thank you
Sorry to John and Mike if this particular post is off the OC topic. To get us back on I will defiantly be at the Royal Oak City Council Meeting again this coming Monday, to see what progress has been made within the city for the Arts Beats and Eats festival. Hope to see everyone their. Make it if you can guys, if you can't don't worry about it.
 
detroit_fan

detroit_fan

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2009
Messages
1,172
Location
Monroe, Michigan, USA
eastmeyers said:
This country was founded on Christian beliefs, we were given freedom of religion, but that does not mean that religion did not play a major roll in the founding and running of this country. The separation of church and state is not something our founding fathers wanted or it would have been written into the constitution, instead it is just the ACLU forcing their views into our public. You may do your own research on this, but please have some facts to base your statements on before posting. I will get you started to show good faith, please see this link, http://toptenproofs.com/product_ach.php Thank you for your time.
I am not posting this to be rude, I just thought that if I was being called out on the carpet without substance that I have a duty to stand up for my self. I understand how you may come to your conclusion seeing as how the media has portrayed for years that the separation of church and state is correct, and in many text books within public schools it also lists the separation of church and state. The fact is that when the ACLU first began to attack religion, groups like the ADF (Alliance Defense Fund) were not yet around to help to KEEP our rights alive.
Thank you
Sorry to John and Mike if this particular post is off the OC topic. To get us back on I will defiantly be at the Royal Oak City Council Meeting again this coming Monday, to see what progress has been made within the city for the Arts Beats and Eats festival. Hope to see everyone their. Make it if you can guys, if you can't don't worry about it.
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I wasn't trying to call you out, sorry if it sounded that way, I didn't mean for it to. I understand the history of religion in with our Founders, but if you believe it is ok to mix religion with government, how would you fell if a muslim president, scotus justices, and other high ranking people came to power and tried to integrate their values. Would you still be praising them for saying a prayer if it was a muslim prayer? Would you be mad if they instituted sharia law? When you mix religion and government you end up with places like Iran and Saudi Arabia. Out of respect for the board I won't post anymore on this topic here, I just wanted to publicly say I didn't mean to call you out. Feel free to pm if you wish to discuss further.
 
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