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Officers to File Lawsuit Against Badger Guns, TodaysTMJ4.com & JSOnline.com

Ivan Sample

Ivan Sample

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
295
Location
Louisville, Kentucky, USA
Paul-

You are missing the point that I am trying to make! Wisconsin should allow for their citizens (Law Abiding) to have a CCDW permit. Any State allows you to OC but its the element of surprise for these thugs who try to rob and kill innocent people. But like I said Wisconsin is too damn liberal and nothing will change until the citizens remove certain people from office. Let me ask you this question-How long has Wisconsin been trying to get a law pass that will allow citizens to CC? I know for sure its been over ten years. Just remember this and you should no where I am coming from. You can't have LE with you 24/7 unless you are LE.

I'm from Wisconsin and love it there but I will never move back due to the BS that gos on in that State. I want to be able to protect my family and not go to jail because I was CC. Something you might want to think about for your family. Kentucky offers that for me to do and might not be for you but I love living where I at. I mean no disrespect to you or others in here. If I came across in any such way-I apologize! By the way I from Milwaukee and lived in one of the wrost part on the North side......Take care Paul and do what you have to do. Please respect my opinion like I respect yours.....
 
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paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Ivan Sample said:
Any State allows you to OC but its the element of surprise for these thugs who try to rob and kill innocent people.
Click to expand...

FL, TX, OK, AR, FL, SC and IL do not allow OC.

As for the element of surprise, that is not always true. There are documented instances where the bad guy walks in, sees one or more OCers and then moves on to somewhere else to rob a 'non protected' area.

As for your point that "Wisconsin should allow for their citizens (Law Abiding) to have a CCDW permit", no they shouldn't. They should repeal 941.23, which has been ruled unconstitutional in 2 different counties (Clark and Jackson) as well as ruled as 'inadequate' by the state Supreme Court. We have a good chance to get it repealed. The state platform of te Republican Party was modified this year so that they support Constitutional Carry, just like AK, VT and AZ have. UT is working on doing that as well in 2011. Any permit system is an infringement of our rights.

I respect your opinion, just your facts are wrong.
 
P

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
paul@paul-fisher.com said:
FL, TX, OK, AR, FL, SC and IL do not allow OC.

As for the element of surprise, that is not always true. There are documented instances where the bad guy walks in, sees one or more OCers and then moves on to somewhere else to rob a 'non protected' area.

As for your point that "Wisconsin should allow for their citizens (Law Abiding) to have a CCDW permit", no they shouldn't. They should repeal 941.23, which has been ruled unconstitutional in 2 different counties (Clark and Jackson) as well as ruled as 'inadequate' by the state Supreme Court. We have a good chance to get it repealed. The state platform of te Republican Party was modified this year so that they support Constitutional Carry, just like AK, VT and AZ have. UT is working on doing that as well in 2011. Any permit system is an infringement of our rights.

I respect your opinion, just your facts are wrong.
Click to expand...
TN may go to Constitutional Carry.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2613435/posts
 
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MKEgal

MKEgal

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Jan 8, 2010
Messages
4,383
Location
in front of my computer, WI
Ivan Sample said:
Wisconsin should allow for their citizens (Law Abiding) to have a CCDW permit. Any State allows you to OC but it's the element of surprise for these thugs who try to rob and kill innocent people.
Click to expand...

I currently live on the north side of Milwaukee (near 43rd & Capitol), & I carry pretty much everywhere. You have 3 statements in a row there with which I disagree.

1) No, we should not have a permit to go armed however suits us. We already have the right as protected by the WI & US Constitutions. Why should I have to get permission from the government? Criminals don't, & they CC every day. Why should my actions be restricted more than a criminal, especially since I'm not likely to harm anyone? The only difference between OC & CC is some cloth, preventing people around me from seeing that I'm armed. (I can think of one situation where I REALLY wish I'd been able to CC!!)

2) Not all states allow OC. And some of the states which do only allow it with a permit. That's a priviledge, not the exercise of a right.

3) When I OC & criminals are scoping out potential targets, the ones with some sense of self-preservation are going to see the pistol and move on to someone else. Yes, there may be a few who are dumb or high enough to attack me anyway, but I doubt they're a large enough group to worry about.

When I CC nobody knows if I'm armed or not, so I stand the same chance of being attacked as anyone else. Once I'm attacked, the situation is already bad and I have to get out of it somehow. There's a greater chance of me or the criminal getting hurt.

I prefer the first scenario, avoiding a confrontation entirely. I certainly don't want to get hurt, nor do I want to hurt most people. (There is one man I would gladly alter if I had the chance.)
 
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Ivan Sample

Ivan Sample

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
295
Location
Louisville, Kentucky, USA
Let me start off with Springfieldx40 I'm not a troll ! For you to say something like that-Really shows your intelligent. I recently just started visiting this board. Look at when I became member and my post. Now if you want to say that I got facts wrong thats ok but to call me troll is unacceptable and you know where I lived. I'm not that hard to find and then you can say it to my face.

Next, DOUG HUFFMAN thanks for enlighten me!

Paul-Maybe you say that I got facts wrong and you might be right, which I think you wrong but its just a matter opinion-I can agree to disagree-I have no problem with that. But let me ask you this question- Who do you think thats going to be going jail if LE stops you and you are CC? Never mind I already know the answer! you will. Its seems to me that criminals have more rights these days then the law abiding citizens. To be honest with you, it really doesn't matter to me because I have my CCDW permit and I can OC to. So if I'm stop by LE I will be going home not to jail.

MKEgal-Why do folks in Wisconsin want CCDW permits-I'm just going by what the people say and there are alot. To me if you CC without a permit you breaking the law and that don't make you better then thugs who don't give sh**. This is no disrespect you or others.

Someone said on this board that CCDW permits is aganist their constitutional rights, its a privilege which I agree with. But driving is a privilege too, so whats the difference. Is it because the Gov't keep track of who have CCDW permits. This one and the troll is hard to swallow and to except.

I am just responding to the people who wrote on this board and the last time I checked I have that right and not being a troll. IT OPINIONS IN HERE AND A WHOLE LOT OF FACTS FROM GOOD PEOPLE AND I RESPECT THOSE WHO COME ACROSS SINCERE!
 
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AaronS

AaronS

Regular Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
1,497
Location
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Ivan Sample said:
Someone said on this board that CCDW permits is aganist their constitutional rights, its a privilege which I agree with. But driving is a privilege too, so whats the difference. Is it because the Gov't keep track of who have CCDW permits. This one and the troll is hard to swallow and to except.
Click to expand...

Please remember, the carry of a gun is a RIGHT in Wisconsin (no permit needed). The driving of a car is a privilege, and has a permit. We (most of us) do not want to see our right taken away, for a permit (privilege).
 
paul@paul-fisher.com

paul@paul-fisher.com

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Messages
4,049
Location
Chandler, AZ
Ivan Sample said:
Paul-Maybe you say that I got facts wrong and you might be right, which I think you wrong but its just a matter opinion-I can agree to disagree-I have no problem with that. But let me ask you this question- Who do you think thats going to be going jail if LE stops you and you are CC? Never mind I already know the answer! you will. Its seems to me that criminals have more rights these days then the law abiding citizens. To be honest with you, it really doesn't matter to me because I have my CCDW permit and I can OC to. So if I'm stop by LE I will be going home not to jail.

Someone said on this board that CCDW permits is aganist their constitutional rights, its a privilege which I agree with. But driving is a privilege too, so whats the difference. Is it because the Gov't keep track of who have CCDW permits. This one and the troll is hard to swallow and to except.
Click to expand...

But I don't CC in WI. You are right. It is illegal. I don't break gun laws.

You are also right, in KY CC is a privilege. Here it is not even an option in most cases.

WI Constitution is very plain about the right to keep and bear arms and since this is a WI forum, that is what we are discussing.

As for opinion vs. fact.... It is a fact that grass is usually green. It is an opinion whether you like green or not.
 
Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry Inc. - Chairman

Wisconsin Carry, Inc.
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
1,197
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, ,
The driving of a car is a privilege, and has a permit.
Click to expand...

Because I think its important...

Driving a car IS a right. The courts and supreme court have indeed found it to be as well.

People can make the assertion that the state treats it like a privilege. SOME states even CALL it a privilege in their propaganda (drivers ed training books/rules of the road pamphlets) That's just a game of semantics (as is whether a shall issue makes something a privilege or a right). The fact of the matter is driving is a right whether the state places restrictions on it or not. Carry is a right whether the state places restrictions on it or not.

EVERY person has the RIGHT to carry for lawful purposes no matter what state you live in. Your state may infringe upon, or deny you a right, but that doesn't make it NOT a right.

“The right to operate a motor vehicle upon the public streets and highways is not a mere privilege. It is a right or liberty, the enjoyment of which is protected by the guarantees of the federal and state constitutions.” Adams v. City of Pocate//o, 416 P. 2d 46, 48; 91 Idaho 99 (1966).

“The right of a citizen to travel upon the public highways includes the right in so doing to use the ordinary and usual conveyances of the day; and under the existing modes of travel includes the right to drive a horse-drawn carriage or wagon thereon, or to operate an automobile thereon, for the usual and ordinary purposes of life and business. The rights aforesaid, being fundamental, are constitutional rights.” Teche Lines v. Dan forth, 12 So. 2d 784, 787 (Miss.—1943). See also: Thompson v. Smith, supra.

Lets not sell any of our rights short. Just because something isn't in the bill or rights does not mean its not a right.

Driving is a right.

All the people who are up in arms over having to get a permit to carry (which is a right) should be EQUALLY up in arms over having to get a permit to drive a car (which is a right)

I don't think the philosophy of the issue should really revolve around the definition of a "right" but rather the practical matter that there is no justification to tax the act of carrying a gun. It doesn't cost the government ANYTHING for me to carry. Therefore, why should I have to pay them to do so. Criminals carry without permits. Therefore, why make me "register" with big brother (and give the government information it doesn't need, and that it has proven not to be trustworthy with)
 
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Ivan Sample

Ivan Sample

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
295
Location
Louisville, Kentucky, USA
Paul-I know you don't need to hear from me but I respect you and appreciate your honesty. Its not a matter of who right or wrong. You stated on what you have to say and the same for me. I'm glad that we were able to discuss this like human beings. You are right about Wisconsin I longer lived there and I don't know the laws of that state. Thanks ! By the way I'm allergic to grass. Lol
 
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Springfielddx40

Springfielddx40

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Green Bay
Ivan Sample said:
Let me start off with Springfieldx40 I'm not a troll ! For you to say something like that-Really shows your intelligent. I recently just started visiting this board. Look at when I became member and my post. Now if you want to say that I got facts wrong thats ok but to call me troll is unacceptable and you know where I lived. I'm not that hard to find and then you can say it to my face.

Next, DOUG HUFFMAN thanks for enlighten me!

Paul-Maybe you say that I got facts wrong and you might be right, which I think you wrong but its just a matter opinion-I can agree to disagree-I have no problem with that. But let me ask you this question- Who do you think thats going to be going jail if LE stops you and you are CC? Never mind I already know the answer! you will. Its seems to me that criminals have more rights these days then the law abiding citizens. To be honest with you, it really doesn't matter to me because I have my CCDW permit and I can OC to. So if I'm stop by LE I will be going home not to jail.

MKEgal-Why do folks in Wisconsin want CCDW permits-I'm just going by what the people say and there are alot. To me if you CC without a permit you breaking the law and that don't make you better then thugs who don't give sh**. This is no disrespect you or others.

Someone said on this board that CCDW permits is aganist their constitutional rights, its a privilege which I agree with. But driving is a privilege too, so whats the difference. Is it because the Gov't keep track of who have CCDW permits. This one and the troll is hard to swallow and to except.

I am just responding to the people who wrote on this board and the last time I checked I have that right and not being a troll. IT OPINIONS IN HERE AND A WHOLE LOT OF FACTS FROM GOOD PEOPLE AND I RESPECT THOSE WHO COME ACROSS SINCERE!
Click to expand...


Um.....did I miss something?
 
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