2013 report of LEO who died on the job

[OC for ME]

MA LEAs may be different, but a cop in my little town's LEA is required to do a walk around of the vehicle to ensure that the vehicle is in good working order. If there is a light out it must be repaired before that vehicle is taken out on patrol.

Lights go out at the most unexpected times. But, that carries zero weight in the eyes of the law. I always check my lights before I travel and I have been cited for a blown tail light that worked before I left the house. I have reported cops who had a blown light. The consequences placed upon the cop are unknown to me. I highly doubt that a citation was issued.....lights go out, what can you do.

There is no exemption in statute for cops in this regard.

 

[Primus]

Hahaha you guys and lady, let him tie his own noose and hang himself.....tacit admissions of hypocrisy and two faced ness, and he painted himself into the corner he then ran away from......

+1

Yes ran so far away from.... no two faced ness of hypocrisy.

Should I be ashamed I don't cite or bother people at work? Can you explain how that's a bad thing?

Is it bad that I feel my time is better spent citing and stopping real criminals? Not the pizza boy making minimum wage who can't afford a light bulb?

And back to original topic and discussion there are already department regs stating officers have to wear seat belts (not all departments). If they don't its on them. Its not my place to stop them and cite them if they aren't. Again since in MA seatbelts aren't primary offense you would need a separate reason. So you would have to find another interaction on a cruiser then pull them over to enforce the seatbelt law.

Normal people understand this is nonsense.

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[sudden valley gunner]

Yes ran so far away from.... no two faced ness of hypocrisy.

Should I be ashamed I don't cite or bother people at work? Can you explain how that's a bad thing?

Is it bad that I feel my time is better spent citing and stopping real criminals? Not the pizza boy making minimum wage who can't afford a light bulb?

And back to original topic and discussion there are already department regs stating officers have to wear seat belts (not all departments). If they don't its on them. Its not my place to stop them and cite them if they aren't. Again since in MA seatbelts aren't primary offense you would need a separate reason. So you would have to find another interaction on a cruiser then pull them over to enforce the seatbelt law.

Normal people understand this is nonsense.

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LOL....normal people...hahaha.

Well of course now you have to jump back in on a subject you said you were done with, and ad extra information that it's not just your brothers in state issued costumes.

The original topic has nothing to do with seat belts. You are the one that asked if you see a cop with a tail light out and not wearing his seatbelt, should you ticket him. You were told yes, because cops would do that to non cops. You tied your own noose, you made the tacit admissions, no one else.

You know the truth of the matter is that it wouldn't be good for your career of collecting and living off of others money for you to enforce those laws on the other members of the enFORCEment class.

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

Yes ran so far away from.... no two faced ness of hypocrisy.

Should I be ashamed I don't cite or bother people at work? Can you explain how that's a bad thing?

Is it bad that I feel my time is better spent citing and stopping real criminals? Not the pizza boy making minimum wage who can't afford a light bulb?

And back to original topic and discussion there are already department regs stating officers have to wear seat belts (not all departments). If they don't its on them. Its not my place to stop them and cite them if they aren't. Again since in MA seatbelts aren't primary offense you would need a separate reason. So you would have to find another interaction on a cruiser then pull them over to enforce the seatbelt law.

Normal people understand this is nonsense.

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What this tells me is that a burnt out tail light is not an issue of safety, but one of revenue and fishing opportunities.

Since you generalize all statements towards police as towards you, I'm going to do the same and ask why you and fellow cops stop people with busted tail lights at all instead of going after real criminals. Clearly, if safety were an issue, you would stop the pizza boy, flower delivery, fed ex driver, and even other cops, regardless of policy. Since you don't, we can conclude it's not for safety at all. So why do it at all?

 

[Primus]

What this tells me is that a burnt out tail light is not an issue of safety, but one of revenue and fishing opportunities.

Since you generalize all statements towards police as towards you, I'm going to do the same and ask why you and fellow cops stop people with busted tail lights at all instead of going after real criminals. Clearly, if safety were an issue, you would stop the pizza boy, flower delivery, fed ex driver, and even other cops, regardless of policy. Since you don't, we can conclude it's not for safety at all. So why do it at all?

Its still for safety but its cost/benefit you have to look at. Is it worth it for me to stop the fed ex guy who's obviously working and probably enroute on a delivery to tell him a light is out on a vehicle that isn't his? Is that worth the safety aspect of one tail light out? To me no.

Now how about an person in their own vehicle? Sure worth a stop. In fact they may not even know its out and are usually appreciative of the heads up. Especially if you don't cite them either and its just a warning.


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[Primus]

Or even better.. food delivery. Is it worth stopping the guy and the pizza gets cold to tell him a light is out? Then he loses money on a tip? Or he's late and gets fired from his job? Also being pulled overbij company vehicles can have repercussions in the company itself

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[Fuller Malarkey]

And on that note I'm done with this conversation.

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Whadda they call that when someone says one thing and does another?

TWO FACED, isn't it? I'm amazed at the low value he puts on his integrity.


two-faced
adj
1. deceitful; insincere; hypocritical
two-facedly adv ˌtwo-ˈfacedness n

Another old adage comes to mind: "If the shoe fits...."

 

[Fuller Malarkey]

The NHTSA has some interesting studies on police officer related car wrecks.

Traffic-related incidents were the leading cause of law enforcement fatalities for 14 of the last 15 years.

A total of 47 officers were killed in traffic-related incidents in 2012, a decrease of 23 percent from 2011 when 61 officers were killed in traffic-related incidents.

The NHTSA has suggested the use of seat safety belts and states have adopted laws to enforce those suggestions. There appears to some problem with enforcing these laws. It seems some police would rather see other police die from their irresponsibility than help them by issuing citations that might just be the consequences they needs to make positive changes. In the mean time, the thin blue line remains above the law and we foot the bill for survivor benefits and higher taxes to pay for higher insurance rates.....

USA Today ran an article yesterday highlighting what the NHTSA had reported regarding the seat belt usage by police officers.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-01-04-1Acopdeaths04_ST_N.htm

"In addition to the 42% who were not wearing restraints during the course of the review, the study found that seat-belt use could not be determined in nearly 13% of the fatalities, suggesting that non-compliance could be higher."

Another situation where police corruption may play a part in real numbers being achieved. Police investigating police produces questionable figures.

It looks like Las Vegas police are cracking down on irresponsible police officers after losing three cops in one year to car accidents, none of the dead wearing seat belts.

Their approach?

•Police crash survivors were recruited to film public service messages.

•A training panel was formed to study how to improve driving safety. Rivera says the panel looked at how transportation businesses, including UPS, trained personnel.

•Officers are encouraged to report on colleagues who don't comply. Punishments range from citations to suspension.

Vegas needs to get up with Officer Pinus, as he knows why the above in red won't work......He's smarter than they are. The "Stuart Smalley of police work" if you will.

 

[Fuller Malarkey]

I am currently involved in a community forum discussing knowledge and learning and how we acquire them. Preparing for that, I came across this retelling of the of the Foo Bird's lesson about wearing Shoos that Fit.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bbowman/birds/humor/foo_bird.html

That was exactly what was on my mind when I used the old adage....when the foo sh_ts.....I was first told that story in 1975. Thanks for the link. I needed a refresher on the details.

 

[Primus]

The NHTSA has some interesting studies on police officer related car wrecks.

Traffic-related incidents were the leading cause of law enforcement fatalities for 14 of the last 15 years.

A total of 47 officers were killed in traffic-related incidents in 2012, a decrease of 23 percent from 2011 when 61 officers were killed in traffic-related incidents.

The NHTSA has suggested the use of seat safety belts and states have adopted laws to enforce those suggestions. There appears to some problem with enforcing these laws. It seems some police would rather see other police die from their irresponsibility than help them by issuing citations that might just be the consequences they needs to make positive changes. In the mean time, the thin blue line remains above the law and we foot the bill for survivor benefits and higher taxes to pay for higher insurance rates.....

USA Today ran an article yesterday highlighting what the NHTSA had reported regarding the seat belt usage by police officers.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-01-04-1Acopdeaths04_ST_N.htm

"In addition to the 42% who were not wearing restraints during the course of the review, the study found that seat-belt use could not be determined in nearly 13% of the fatalities, suggesting that non-compliance could be higher."

Another situation where police corruption may play a part in real numbers being achieved. Police investigating police produces questionable figures.

It looks like Las Vegas police are cracking down on irresponsible police officers after losing three cops in one year to car accidents, none of the dead wearing seat belts.

Their approach?

•Police crash survivors were recruited to film public service messages.

•A training panel was formed to study how to improve driving safety. Rivera says the panel looked at how transportation businesses, including UPS, trained personnel.

•Officers are encouraged to report on colleagues who don't comply. Punishments range from citations to suspension.

Vegas needs to get up with Officer Pinus, as he knows why the above in red won't work......He's smarter than they are. The "Stuart Smalley of police work" if you will.

Key word..... report. Can you show me where it says conduct traffic stops on each other?

I've already said this 5 times. Departments have policies requiring their guys to wear belts. This is them saying "follow the policy and tell us who doesn't so so we can write then up".

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[WalkingWolf]

Key word..... report. Can you show me where it says conduct traffic stops on each other?

I've already said this 5 times. Departments have policies requiring their guys to wear belts. This is them saying "follow the policy and tell us who doesn't so so we can write then up".

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Can you cite a law that says they cannot?

 

[Primus]

Can you cite a law that says they cannot?

Nope there isn't one. Just like there isn't an exception in the law either. I'm not claiming there is any law saying they have to. I'm saying its dumb to do so.

They have the policy. If the guys choose to go to their Lt and say "hey I drove by officer johns and he didn't have his seat belt on" then so be it. That's on them.

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[WalkingWolf]

Nope there isn't one. Just like there isn't an exception in the law either. I'm not claiming there is any law saying they have to. I'm saying its dumb to do so.

They have the policy. If the guys choose to go to their Lt and say "hey I drove by officer johns and he didn't have his seat belt on" then so be it. That's on them.

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And of course you say this because?

 

[Primus]

And of course you say this because?

Already explained why I thinking would be dumb to be utilizing cruisers to pull other cruisers over and conduct traffic stops and issue citations.

Ww did you ever cite any officers for not wearing a belt? How about any other traffic violation? Please elaborate on your methods of conducting said traffic stop on another cruiser. Did you ask for license and registration for cruiser? Did you run said officers driver license? If/when that officer got a call for service did you demand he wait till you were done citing him? Did he have his lights activated also during this stop? Throughout the night that other 30 times you saw him at calls would you issue new citations for the light out or seatbelt not being on?

If you haven't done this then get off my back about not doing it or thinking its dumb.

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[WalkingWolf]

Already explained why I thinking would be dumb to be utilizing cruisers to pull other cruisers over and conduct traffic stops and issue citations.

Ww did you ever cite any officers for not wearing a belt? How about any other traffic violation? Please elaborate on your methods of conducting said traffic stop on another cruiser. Did you ask for license and registration for cruiser? Did you run said officers driver license? If/when that officer got a call for service did you demand he wait till you were done citing him? Did he have his lights activated also during this stop? Throughout the night that other 30 times you saw him at calls would you issue new citations for the light out or seatbelt not being on?

If you haven't done this then get off my back about not doing it or thinking its dumb.

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[video=youtube;0RL8BtQsG_U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RL8BtQsG_U[/video]
One of my officers stopped the sheriff for DUI, we turned it over to the ISP. And yes I wrote citations to officers in cruisers for breaking traffic laws. NOT just the police but the fire department also. Most times the result of accidents, but not all the time. The only way the public is going to respect law enforcement is if law enforcement is held accountable just like anybody else.

In fact I believe there is a video of a FHP patrol stopping a Miami squad car and arresting the driver. It is not a lone incident.

 

[Primus]

One of my officers stopped the sheriff for DUI, we turned it over to the ISP. And yes I wrote citations to officers in cruisers for breaking traffic laws. NOT just the police but the fire department also. Most times the result of accidents, but not all the time. The only way the public is going to respect law enforcement is if law enforcement is held accountable just like anybody else.

In fact I believe there is a video of a FHP patrol stopping a Miami squad car and arresting the driver. It is not a lone incident.

So your claiming you conducted traffic stops on other marked cruisers for traffic violations?

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[Fuller Malarkey]

Key word..... report. Can you show me where it says conduct traffic stops on each other?

I've already said this 5 times. Departments have policies requiring their guys to wear belts. This is them saying "follow the policy and tell us who doesn't so so we can write then up".

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But but but.....Massachusetts has a law requiring the use of seat belts. Police are above the law? Can you show me where police are above the law?

And please can the broken tail light BS. When you walk up on a driver for a "consensual encounter" and witness he ain't wearing a safety belt, I'm sure you ALWAYS tell them that due to them not having a broken tail light, they are off scott-free.

So Primus operates on another old adage..."Do as I say, not as I do". Honorable.

Not to get caught up in Pinus's obtuse act, I know why Primus doesn't write other cops for the things that can lead to their death and we, the taxpayers, expense:

http://forums.officer.com/t105893/

SEVENTEEN pages of cops explaining why cops should not ticket other cops!

 

[WalkingWolf]

So your claiming you conducted traffic stops on other marked cruisers for traffic violations?

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YES, and made arrests. While at SVPD I arrested a SPD sergeant for drunk driving on duty in a cruiser. Nothing bugs me more than criminal police officers. Whether they are in a squad car, or not, or even on the internet. But that is not your problem, I don't believe you are even a officer.

If you were YOU would be aware that police officers are stopped all the time by other agencies while on the job. It does not happen often but it happens and every REAL police officer is aware of it.

 

[OC for ME]

<snip>

In fact I believe there is a video of a FHP patrol stopping a Miami squad car and arresting the driver. It is not a lone incident.

If I recall, the cop was doing 100 or so. The female trooper had many choice words regarding his intentional disregard for the safety of the motoring public. The arrested officer was justifying his extreme speed as required to get to his second job on time.

Irony is think in this story. The cop was afforded a taste of the real world that non-cops travel in.

 

[Primus]

But but but.....Massachusetts has a law requiring the use of seat belts. Police are above the law? Can you show me where police are above the law?

And please can the broken tail light BS. When you walk up on a driver for a "consensual encounter" and witness he ain't wearing a safety belt, I'm sure you ALWAYS tell them that due to them not having a broken tail light, they are off scott-free.

So Primus operates on another old adage..."Do as I say, not as I do". Honorable.

Not to get caught up in Pinus's obtuse act, I know why Primus doesn't write other cops for the things that can lead to their death and we, the taxpayers, expense:

http://forums.officer.com/t105893/

SEVENTEEN pages of cops explaining why cops should not ticket other cops!

Fuller..... in MA seatbelt is not a primary enforcement violation. So you NEED some other violation before you can stop them.

Less bash.... more read.....I believe I may have even put that in bold somewhere so you could read it slower.

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