.22 cal is best for self defense

[j4l]

Hasn't this topic been beaten to death enough? Also in little bit of defense of the OP, I had an acquaintance that was let's just say not in the right place who was killed by a single .22 shot to the body.

Hasnt just about every topic we discuss?

And no one's denying that it doesnt/cant/wont happen, just that it's likelihood of doing so isnt as great as with the other options available.
At least not enough so as to bank on it when your life may depend on it.

Another way of looking at it- do we use a butter-knife where a chain-saw is called for? No. Chose the best tool for a given task, that's all. People are'nt squirrels. Heck, some folks even barely make it out of a shootout alive using far more powerful rounds- why deliberately limit ones-self to the lowest denominator?

 

[carry for myself]

the way i see it. .22 is deadly. if put in the right spot. problem is, not many people can do that. so with that being said

anyone who wants to can carry a .22LR, or a .25 acp for SD. be my guest. not my life that's at risk.

however i will continue to carry, train with and defend myself with my 1911 chambered in .45ACP and my Beretta SB compact chambered in 9mm. both at the same time. ill carry mine. you'll carry yours..........only difference is. when it comes down to it. and the cards are all laid out. i may go home for dinner..........those who chose to carry pea shooters. probably wont. sad for them but no skin off my back.

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

this thread made me ROFL...

So the OP thinks we should give up penetration power for accuracy, because no amount of training will ever help us control the recoil of a more powerful round in a real SD scenario?

Now, I'm not knocking the .22--any piece of metal being flung faster than I can throw it deserves caution, but the answer here does not (to me) seem to be lowering the power of projectile, but simply more, and better, training.

 

[slowfiveoh]

The biggest round with the most controllable, repeatable shot placement you can handle yourself.

/story


Edit: Ever wonder why intermediate rounds were invented, and why they do so well?

HRMMMMMMMMM

 

[Steeler-gal]

Try this:

Draw and fire your normal carry gun while backing up from the target. Empty the whole mag.

Go to the target, measure the radius and multiply it by about 3 (stress factor).

Now do the same thing with your .22

Still feel good about your .45??

Sorry, but I completely disagree with with this. The idea that you're more accurate with a .22 just because it's a .22 is absurd. In my experience is not caliber dependent.

okay. you shoot me 3 times with your .22

ill shoot you 3 times with my .45 HPJ's..............i will probably live. you most certainly will not................nuff said

Agree except I hit you ONCE with my .40 HPJs. One is all I need. You WILL need 3 or 4 or 5 shots with your teensy weensy .22.

Good luck with that.

 

[cloudcroft]

Wow, are YOU going to be in for a surprise, Supergirl -- kind of like Golaith was -- since one teensy-weensy bullet is all it'd take (unless you really ARE bulletproof). I fugure one such bullet in your head -- if it doesn't kill you -- will "disorient" you enough to drill you some more IF necessary (and also in your head).

Still, you'll probably keep reading those DC Comics anyway...but DO try to check in with reality occasionally, for your own good.

And no, no one is any more afraid of your "40" than they are of any other caliber. They ALL should garner equal respect. Now, if someone were pointing a Ma Deuce at me, then I MIGHT reconsider...

;-)

BTW, I used to live in Fairfax (on Egan Dr.) way back when...those homes sure have gotten expensive over the years.

 

[SouthernBoy]

the way i see it. .22 is deadly. if put in the right spot. problem is, not many people can do that. so with that being said

anyone who wants to can carry a .22LR, or a .25 acp for SD. be my guest. not my life that's at risk.

however i will continue to carry, train with and defend myself with my 1911 chambered in .45ACP and my Beretta SB compact chambered in 9mm. both at the same time. ill carry mine. you'll carry yours..........only difference is. when it comes down to it. and the cards are all laid out. i may go home for dinner..........those who chose to carry pea shooters. probably wont. sad for them but no skin off my back.

See my post #15 and you'll see how I approach someone arguing for a rimfire as a primary carry handgun. I'm not against them doing and am not about to rave on and on against their decision, unless they continue trying to defend their actions as plausible and preferable. But by the same token, I would not feel any sympathy for someon who chose to do this and suffered the consequences of their actions. Basically you get what you deserve when you spit in the face of logic and common sense. Still, it is their decision and theirs alone to take.

I had a friend in the 1970's who was shot in the head by a man using a .22LR in a rifle. My friend was VERY fortunate that the bullet struck him at such an angle as to do no more damage than cut his scalp requiring stitches. Had it been a .30-30 or a .30-06, I venture to say that the top part of his skull cap would have been destroyed along with a decent amount of brain tissue.

This is the general and common recommendation I have received from men who knew what they were talking about. Men who have been there and have seen what works and what may not work. It is from another post I made recently:

"These debates and outright arguments are likely to continue long after many of us are in the ground pushing up daisies. And there are valid points for each side of the argument to consider. But there is one criteria, actually a set of criteria, that should be not only serve as your prime focus, but give you confidence when these questions and arguments arise.

Use the gun/caliber/load with which you can consistently, accurately, and quickly deliver rounds to target time after time. If this means a .45ACP, then that is what you should train with and use. If it happens to be a 9mm or a .40S&W, then spend your time and money training with that caliber. The point is, if you cannot do what was stated in the first sentence of this paragraph reliably and with confidence, you probably need to consider trying another caliber and/or gun."


If the OP is steadfast in his preference of carrying a .22 as his primary carry gun, then that is his right to take that decision. And if the worse happens, an extreme dynamic encounter, he will know then whether or not he took the right decision.

 

[j4l]

Wow, are YOU going to be in for a surprise, Supergirl -- kind of like Golaith was -- since one teensy-weensy bullet is all it'd take (unless you really ARE bulletproof). I fugure one such bullet in your head -- if it doesn't kill you -- will "disorient" you enough to drill you some more IF necessary (and also in your head).

Still, you'll probably keep reading those DC Comics anyway...but DO try to check in with reality occasionally, for your own good.

And no, no one is any more afraid of your "40" than they are of any other caliber. They ALL should garner equal respect. Now, if someone were pointing a Ma Deuce at me, then I MIGHT reconsider...

;-)

BTW, I used to live in Fairfax (on Egan Dr.) way back when...those homes sure have gotten expensive over the years.

Ummmm, genius. I HAVE been hit with -twice. Both times -(separate incidents) with .25 auto -close enough to .22 to not even be an issue- I didnt even feel it.
Granted the one time was into my multiple layers of winter gear- but even still- one would think I should have felt SOMETHING, given it was literally point-blank into my chest.
The other time, in my right hand- my gun hand that was returning fire, as it so happens. Said impact was not enough that I even realized Id actually taken a hit.
I thought, at the time, that Id just been grazed, or dinged by my own shell -casing as I fired. It was the better part of an hour, after all was said and done, that a buddy who was with me pointed out that my hand was bleeding.
I looked down, said "dang" whiped it off and carried on, thinking it was indeed just a graze.
Another hour or two passed before I went and whiped it again, and then felt the lump of the round just beneath the skin, along the back of my right hand. -
THEN- I went to the E/R, and had the round removed, and the entry wound -a scratch- stitched up.

Believe me, a .22 or anything even remotely that size, is unlikely to stun or daze anyone into inaction, much less stop them from whatever it is they are doing.
UNLESS-that magic shot happens, and you somehow manage to drop them then and there.

 

[RetiredOC]

And no, no one is any more afraid of your "40" than they are of any other caliber. They ALL should garner equal respect.

Um, correction - I AM more afraid of being hit by a .40 than a .22. The ALL do not garner equal respect for all the reasons posted in this thread. .22LR does not possess the same stopping power as the more common self defense calibers when fired at center mass.

You .22LR people need to stop thinking that because you have a .22LR handgun you are an amazing shot and your bullets are programmed to go right to people's temples. The fact that you carry a .22 doesn't make you an amazing shot...practice does... I can't believe I'm still posting in this thread.

 

[cloudcroft]

Resistance is futile.

 

[MilProGuy]

If it's not...it's probably close to it. :dude:

 

[SavageOne]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the truly sad case of the State Trooper who emptied his .357 revolver into a large man, he had pulled over. After the man(who was not just a "little" overweight) hit the ground the Trooper reached up to key the mike on his shoulder. The man on the ground raised a .22 cal. gun and fired one shot, which entered the Trooper's armpit above his vest and killed him. Though horrible the outcome is worth mentioning. Man shot multiple times with a .357 serving life in prison, but alive. The Trooper shot once by a .22, lost to us. There was a video from the Trooper's dash cam floating around, but I have no desire to see it again or even look for it. Sorry. I am not saying this will always be the outcome, just as I will not say one form of carry is superior to another. I'm just pointing out that it can happen.

Let us also not forget the recent story of the motel clerk who fired one shot into chest of a would be robber/rapist and dropped him like a stone. That story was discussed on this forum.

 

[09jisaac]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the truly sad case of the State Trooper who emptied his .357 revolver into a large man, he had pulled over. After the man(who was not just a "little" overweight) hit the ground the Trooper reached up to key the mike on his shoulder. The man on the ground raised a .22 cal. gun and fired one shot, which entered the Trooper's armpit above his vest and killed him. Though horrible the outcome is worth mentioning. Man shot multiple times with a .357 serving life in prison, but alive. The Trooper shot once by a .22, lost to us. There was a video from the Trooper's dash cam floating around, but I have no desire to see it again or even look for it. Sorry. I am not saying this will always be the outcome, just as I will not say one form of carry is superior to another. I'm just pointing out that it can happen.

Let us also not forget the recent story of the motel clerk who fired one shot into chest of a would be robber/rapist and dropped him like a stone. That story was discussed on this forum.

No one is saying that a .22 can't do the job, most are just pointing out that a 9, .40, .45, .357 etc would have did it too. But not it all cases that a larger caliber stopped a threat would the .22....

 

[SouthernBoy]

What seems to be missing in this discussion is the concept of stopping an aggressor in the shortest time possible. To argue that a .22 rimfire is just as capable of doing this as a commonly carried and acceptable defensive caliber defies logic and common sense. The common defensive handgun calibers (9mm, .40S&W, .45ACP, .357 Sig and .357 Magnum, and 10mm) are minimum at best at doing this and the proof can be found in the history of their use against human targets. Most of the time, they work quite well but there are enough incidences where because of shot placement, the size of the perp, clothing, and a host of other factors they have faltered in their ability to decisively halt an aggressors actions before he can do harm to the victim.

If these calibers have sometimes had problems stopping an attack, how does one argue that a .22 rimfire will do just fine? No one says that you can't severely injure or kill someone with a .22 but the chance of stopping someone before they can do you harm is greatly diminished when using this round. In the heat and intensity of a deadly attack, delivering rounds to vital areas is hard enough. You are more likely to hit non-vital areas so it stands to reason that if this is the case, and you can bet it is, you want to use something that is going to damage what it hits enough to cause your attacker to cease his actions as quickly as possible. It's hard to imagine a .22 rimfire being someone's primary choice when all of this is considered. The term, "pipe dream" comes to mind.

 

[Billy D]

I still stick with the troll theory, no one in thier RIGHT mind would want to carry a .22 over ANYTHING else. I mean, why limit yourself in EVERY aspect right from tthe beginning? and a .22 is not any more accurate than a .45 or 9mm, especially under fire/stress. Leave your kiddy gun to shooting squirrels... when im attacked by two or three 6' 200 Lb men Ill have my .45 with me along with spare ammo, which prolly wont be needed.
troll troll troll yor boat....

 

[Red Dawg]

My .02
I carry a defensive handgun for personal protection. If I am forced to use said gun, then I think it will be a little easier to justify the stopping of the threat with 1 round fired in a court of law. "Mr Jones, why did you fire your gun 23 times?" Would not look like you were just trying to stop the immediate threat.

 

[2A Pride]

I am somewhat shocked that I am still reading, much less posting, this thread some 55 posts later after reading the subject line. And I would dare to venture that 1,055 posts later, we'd still be here with someone defending their .22 caliber gun to the death.....no pun intended. Okay, a little pun intended. Their have also been cases of people who died from a bb gun, but no one in their right mind would state that a daisy rider is a better defensive choice than a 12 guage. Of course there have been multiple people who received multiple .45 caliber wounds and lived to tell the tale, but I've never heard of anyone being shot with a small caliber round that would have survived "if only it had been a 45 ACP or high-velocity .357 mag." There's nothing wrong with using a .22 for its intended purpose, and I don't think anyone here is debating that it can be extremely lethal when used in certain regards. But when factoring in a "maybe" 1 inch group performance over the channel of blood-loss compared to other rounds, you're seriously setting yourself up for huge disappointment. Death does not look upon the naive any more mercifully than the rest.

So other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

 

[MAC702]

I've done the requested drill with my carry .45. It's not hard. It actually comes up often in IDPA competitions.

Another consideration is that a good double tap (with an adequate bullet) actually works better if the bullets are NOT right next to each other. So an 8" spread with a .45 is actually better than a 1" spread with a .22 fired at the same fast rate.

 

[RetiredOC]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the truly sad case of the State Trooper who emptied his .357 revolver into a large man, he had pulled over. After the man(who was not just a "little" overweight) hit the ground the Trooper reached up to key the mike on his shoulder. The man on the ground raised a .22 cal. gun and fired one shot, which entered the Trooper's armpit above his vest and killed him. Though horrible the outcome is worth mentioning. Man shot multiple times with a .357 serving life in prison, but alive. The Trooper shot once by a .22, lost to us. There was a video from the Trooper's dash cam floating around, but I have no desire to see it again or even look for it. Sorry. I am not saying this will always be the outcome, just as I will not say one form of carry is superior to another. I'm just pointing out that it can happen.

Let us also not forget the recent story of the motel clerk who fired one shot into chest of a would be robber/rapist and dropped him like a stone. That story was discussed on this forum.

SAUCE... This post has none.

Oh yeah, key words in this post were, "The man on the ground."

 

[since9]

I will carry the firearm with greatest capability of stopping an aggressor in the fastest possible time. That is greatly facilitated by being able to accurately deposit enough rounds on the target to stop it in the least amount of time. For me, that requirement is best met by my 9mm, with which I can fire four rounds in rapid succession (less than 2 seconds from draw to finish) while keeping them all on the target. When I step up to a .40, a .357 mag, a .44 mag, or a .45 ACP, the accuracy of subsequent rounds is seriously reduced, thereby lengthening net effective stop time.

If you'd like to talk to me about a 20 round per second .22 machine gun, I might be interested, but only from an academic perspective, as a shotgun accomplishes much the same with far fewer moving parts, in far less than 1 second, and with far greater reliability.