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.22 cal is best for self defense

Justman1020

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2011
Messages
155
Location
Washington
Want to make a bet that i can't hit you under stress at 5-10-15 even 20 meters with my 9?
or a 40? or a 45??

I guarantee you that at what most self defense scenario's that actually happen, the distance is close enough that i could easily tag the target...
 

Billy D

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
56
Location
detroit
I will carry the firearm with greatest capability of stopping an aggressor in the fastest possible time. That is greatly facilitated by being able to accurately deposit enough rounds on the target to stop it in the least amount of time. For me, that requirement is best met by my 9mm, with which I can fire four rounds in rapid succession (less than 2 seconds from draw to finish) while keeping them all on the target. When I step up to a .40, a .357 mag, a .44 mag, or a .45 ACP, the accuracy of subsequent rounds is seriously reduced, thereby lengthening net effective stop time.

If you'd like to talk to me about a 20 round per second .22 machine gun, I might be interested, but only from an academic perspective, as a shotgun accomplishes much the same with far fewer moving parts, in far less than 1 second, and with far greater reliability.

you have girly arms... :p
 

KYKevin

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Messages
323
Location
Owensboro, Kentucky, USA
Not trying to make fun of what you said or anything. But I have been hit with a .22. Here is what happened when I got hit.

I am over 200 lbs. and the round hit me in the shoulder. My first thought was not to go for my weapon as I have been trained to do. It was oh sh**! That hurts like hell and I dropped to my knees. Sure I would like to say I was like clint eastwood. Pulled out my weapon and blew the guy away. Truth is we never know how we are gonna react when something like this happens. No matter how much we train and prepare for it. And I was trained. But until you have been actually been hit you are never truly prepared for that. I am just glad I was hit in the shoulder and not any where vital.

And here is something to really keep in mind. You don't know what cal. round is being slung your way when the lead starts whizzing by. Treat all weapons regardless of the cal. as LOADED AND DEADLY. In an urban situation if the bad guy is going to rob you then he is prob already close for any cal. including a .22 to be deadly. And say you didn't go down after 3 rounds have hit you. Odds are they are going to keep pulling that trigger til you do go down. I doubt they will wait for you to pull out a weapon and return fire.

Main thing to remember when it comes to any round coming your way. RESPECT IT AND TAKE COVER!

These things never happen like in the movies. There is no perfect scenario. And I can promise you it will never happen or go down the way you will expect it too. I was shot only once. I am very grateful it was not 3 times.

okay. you shoot me 3 times with your .22

ill shoot you 3 times with my .45 HPJ's..............i will probably live. you most certainly will not................nuff said
 

west

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2011
Messages
16
Location
Jamestown, Kentucky
Try this:

Draw and fire your normal carry gun while backing up from the target. Empty the whole mag.

Go to the target, measure the radius and multiply it by about 3 (stress factor).

Now do the same thing with your .22

Still feel good about your .45??



I know everyone is going to come back with practice practice practice blah blah blah. You will always be a better rapid fire shot with your .22.
If I'm going to shoot someone, I want to hit them. Penetration, expansion, stopping power means nothing if you miss.

What backing up are you talking??? Dude...when I pull out my 9mm Px4 storm with 17 rounds I can move only forward.
 

tcmech

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Joined
Aug 2, 2009
Messages
368
Location
, ,
Try this:

Draw and fire your normal carry gun while backing up from the target. Empty the whole mag.

Go to the target, measure the radius and multiply it by about 3 (stress factor).

Now do the same thing with your .22

Still feel good about your .45??



I know everyone is going to come back with practice practice practice blah blah blah. You will always be a better rapid fire shot with your .22.
If I'm going to shoot someone, I want to hit them. Penetration, expansion, stopping power means nothing if you miss.

Yep
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
http://www.odmp.org/officer/420-trooper-mark-hunter-coates

Corporal Mark Coates was shot and killed after stopping a car for weaving in traffic on I-95 near the Georgia border. During the traffic stop the suspect began to struggle with Corporal Coates and they both fell to the ground. The suspect fired a .22 caliber handgun into Corporal Coates' chest, but the round was stopped by his vest.

Corporal Coates was able to force the man off of him and return fire, striking the suspect five times in the chest with his .357 caliber revolver. As he retreated for cover and to radio for backup, the suspect fired another shot. The round struck Trooper Coates in the left armpit and traveled into his heart. The suspect survived the incident and was sentenced to life in prison.
 

Phoenix David

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2009
Messages
605
Location
Glendale, Arizona, USA
Try this:

Draw and fire your normal carry gun while backing up from the target. Empty the whole mag.

Go to the target, measure the radius and multiply it by about 3 (stress factor).

Now do the same thing with your .22

Still feel good about your .45??



I know everyone is going to come back with practice practice practice blah blah blah. You will always be a better rapid fire shot with your .22.
If I'm going to shoot someone, I want to hit them. Penetration, expansion, stopping power means nothing if you miss.

However if you do hit then penetration, expansion and stopping power means everything.
 

jayspapa

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2008
Messages
313
Location
South end of the state, Illinois, USA
To the OP.....while many people have been known to die from being shot with a .22 , it isn't the best for stopping a thug from getting to you.

Sure , none of us want to be shot with a .22 . One poster told of being shot in the shoulder and how bad it hurt and I bet he wouldn't have tried to advance on anyone after being shot either.

Now , try using that .22 to stop a guy on PCP who is hell bent on wanting to take you out. You never know when you might run into a person like that. Take your own chances .
 

Steeler-gal

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2011
Messages
560
Location
Fairfax County, VA
Wow, are YOU going to be in for a surprise, Supergirl -- kind of like Golaith was -- since one teensy-weensy bullet is all it'd take (unless you really ARE bulletproof). I fugure one such bullet in your head -- if it doesn't kill you -- will "disorient" you enough to drill you some more IF necessary (and also in your head).

Still, you'll probably keep reading those DC Comics anyway...but DO try to check in with reality occasionally, for your own good.

And no, no one is any more afraid of your "40" than they are of any other caliber. They ALL should garner equal respect. Now, if someone were pointing a Ma Deuce at me, then I MIGHT reconsider...

;-)

BTW, I used to live in Fairfax (on Egan Dr.) way back when...those homes sure have gotten expensive over the years.

That's Steeler-gal and as a matter of fact I am bullet proof. Got bit by a genetically altered spider and have never been the same since. ;) :p

My point was that my 40 will make a bigger hole and damage than a .22

No idea where Egan Dr (I don't live in FFX city) is but everything is uber expensive down here so I'm sure they are.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
I do not believe it is the best caliber self defense. Yes you need to hit your target and if that's that only caliber you can hit your target with then stick with it. And just because you have a .45 does not mean you are going to kill that person and just because you hit your target does not mean you are going to immediately stop the threat. This woman used a .22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcLo_TGy7pA&feature=channel_video_title

Then there is the story of the police officer (sorry I can't find the article) who shot the suspect over 20 with a .40 and still took awhile for the guy to die. The cop found the guy sitting in his truck in an empty parking lot and went to investigate. Took the guys license and tried to run it. The guy was wanted for murder but the system was down so the cop was about to just let the guy go. Following his instinct he decided to approach on the passenger side which ended up saving his life when the guy started to shoot at him. I'm sure someone on here has heard this story and may be able to find the link. My point is, yes a higher caliber is better but doesn't always mean you're going to stop them. No matter what caliber you carry you need to realize it may take more than 1,3,or even 10 bullets with any caliber.
 

Steeler-gal

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2011
Messages
560
Location
Fairfax County, VA
Why Not Any Caliber

Saw this article and thought I'd share it with you all and the OP.


http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/why-not-any-caliber/

The .22 LR is a very deadly round. Many emergency room doctors will tell you that a .22 caliber gunshot is one of the worst to come in, because, quite often, a .22 LR will ricochet inside the body causing many small, hard-to-find wound channels. The surgeries for these wounds can take hours and as often as not, the victims bleed out and die.

Now, if.22 LR is such a deadly round, then why am I so against it?
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Saw this article and thought I'd share it with you all and the OP.


http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/why-not-any-caliber/

I'd like to take exception to the claims made in the article, and I'm as concerned that such unsubstantiated claims would appear in the NRA's American Rifleman as I am that we seem to be unable to separate the chaff from the wheat, here. That is, we're so far removed from a background in basic science, most notably physics, that we're unable to recognize spurious anecdote when we read it.

The .22 LR is a very deadly round.

I disagree with this. Any round, even a BB, can be deadly. But "very deadly?" That phrase is unscientific. It was written by a writer who was writing for effect, not by a scientist accurately and objectively reporting findings based on hard data.

Many emergency room doctors will tell you that a .22 caliber gunshot is one of the worst to come in, because, quite often, a .22 LR will ricochet inside the body causing many small, hard-to-find wound channels.

This is a wild and unsupported claim. "Many?" As in "3 out of 5?" Sounds like a commercial to me. Even he'd said "73% of doctors polled will tell you..." I'd have to ask, "What about the other 27%? Why would they say otherwise?" Doctors are subject to anecdotal evidence, as well. One thing I've learned very well is how often both medical doctors and PhD's goof up their statistics. They're doctors, not statisticians (Unless they have their PhD in statistics, of course).

As far as doctors go, I have two doctor friends who've been working in ER for decades, one up in Denver. I ran this claim by them and both of them said "rubbish." Well, one of them said rubbish. The other used more colorful language. Regardless, their opinions are anecdotal, but as I know them, I'm inclined to side with their opinion.

The .22 doesn't "richochet inside the body" any more or less than do other rounds. If it has a clear path, As it's not designed to fragment, it tends not to fragment. A fragmenting .22 round will penetrate roughly 6 inches, while a non-fragmenting round will penetration roughly 12 inches. Source. Even the non-fragmenting round's 12 inches allows for initial penetration, perhaps bouncing off one rib before coming to rest in tissue, or against a second bone.

The one except is a penetrating head shot, as in either through the eye or another means. Once in brain, which, unlike muscle, has very little resistance to penetration, a .22 round can indeed richochet around the skull. However, the penetration distance will remain within 50% of that for muscle. It's simple physics, and all the anecdotal "evidence" and doctors' claims otherwise do not override physics.

The surgeries for these wounds can take hours and as often as not, the victims bleed out and die.

To this, both doctor friends used colorful language, particularly about bleeding out. "That's what blood banks are for." They reminded me that most bleeders have sustained trauma to major cardio paths, including the heart, aortas, other major arteries, jugulars, vital blood-rich organs, or the head. Both are far more worried about blunt force trauma cause by car accidents as the bleeding is small on a local scale, but the bleeding is widespread.

As for shooting victims, one put it this way: "The worst are medium to large fragmenting rounds as it's difficult to determine the initial mass of the bullet. It's not like that value is stamped on the flat bottom of the jacket. Without knowing that, we don't know if we've managed to get it all. Regardless, we don't invasively feel around everywhere, either, as that exacerbates trauma to the wound. We get the main mass, feel gently along the wound track for side tunnels, close off any bleeders, give blood and clotting factor as required, pack the wound, close up, and monitor. If we feel we've missed something, a simple x-ray tells us where."

Now, if.22 LR is such a deadly round, then why am I so against it?

I agree with the author on this one. It's about stopping power, not killing power. However, unlike the author, I do not hold that the .22 is "such a deadly round." Rather, I hold that stopping power and killing power are closely correlated, an opinion that's substantiated by mortuary statistics and crime stats.

For a more interesting read, see the FBI's Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness. The ideas presented therein are being the FBI's move from the .38 to the .40 i.e. faster round + heavier round = greater penetration + larger cavity. You can read about their testing and decision making process here.
 
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