.357 vs .38 special

[ClevelandCarry]

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Unless technology has changed since I was really into revolvers, a .38 frame and cylindercan be built lighter than a .357 frame and cylinder, due to less pressure.

My range guns are all .357 because size and weight is not an issue, and I have the ability to shoot 38/357.

I carry a 9mm semi-auto pistol, but if I was a revolver kinda' carry person, I'd give serious thought to carrying a .38 over a .357 in concealed carry.

 

[2a4all]

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rscottie wrote:

I have a Ruger SP101 with a 2.25 in barrel. It is quite manageable with Federal 125 g semi-jacketed hollowpoints. It does make a pretty loud boom.

It is practically invisible in a IWB small of back holster.

I have one of these too, and I've been practicing with Fiocchi .357 142gr FMJTC & American Eagle .357 158gr JSP. There is a significant recoil which moved me (6'2" 210#) at my shoulder, and it does take a bit longer to reacquire the target. The barrel gets too hot to hold after about 25 rounds, and my hand is a little sore after 50 rounds.

I've also used Winclean .357 125gr JSP, which were a bit easier to handle.

While it (and I) don't drive tacks yet, my groups are tighter with .38spl.

I've put a Hogue Monogrip on it, which improved control a lot.

I'm left-handed, so I carry it in front of my right hip (cross draw), so it's accessible when I'm driving.

I really like this gun.

 

[Bear]

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The reason so many carry the 38 special over the .357, is the .38 can be had in a smaller and lighter package, so it is easier to hide. With the advent of the improved +P ammo the .38 can now be considered a decent, but not great fight stopper. The .357 always has been and I believe will always be far superior to the .38. I carried a .357 as a duty weapon for 28 years, and I still carry on old S&W 21/2" M19 every time I leave the house.

.357 ammo has gotten very expensive, (almost twice the price of .38) so most suggest that you do most of your practice with HOT .38 and save the .357 ammo for the real deal.

Hope this helps.

 

[Alexcabbie]

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One thing to consider is that the lower recoil of the .38 can make for that crucial split-second in recovery time for a followup shot. If some lout is rushing you with a blade, you have very little time before he is right up against you doing horrible damage. You will probably need more than one shot to stop a maniac with a knife, and lessened recoil could allow you to do a Mozambique routine on him before you got a pigsticker in the liver.

 

[Nutczak]

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I still have my Ruger GP 100 4" stainless "Heavy Barrel" from 20+ years ago, I used to carry it in an IWB holster in the small of my back. I have found the 110 grain JHP's .357 to be a wonderful load for the gun for almost anything. When i want to punish my wrist and arms, I'll load with 185 grain bullets.

My carry gun is now a .40 with 16+1 capacity loaded with JHP's.
Jury reacting to "Magnum" ammunition:
I could give a rats bunghole what a jury thinks, I would rather be judged by those12 peoplefor whatI chose to save my own life or the lives of loved ones with, than to not be able to stop a threat against myself or others.

I think way too many people are hung up on "What would the jury think" and may not be properly armed to stop a threat becuase of that.
How many people here have ever even had to draw their weapon in defense? now how many actually shot after it being drawn? I have been forced to draw on a person, and did not need to shoot him to stop the threat. I held him until the police cuffed him amd took him away.

 

[.40 Cal]

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I just bought a S&W 27-2 which is the model that came right after the original .357 Registered magnum (mine is1970's model). It has a 4" barrel with a recessed cylinder and a pinned barrel. Essentially, THE .357 Magnum. Recoil is etremely tolerable in a full .357 load. I can compare it to shooting my 442 .38 snubbieshooting+P ammo.

On a side note... everyone should own one of each at the least. I'm a 1911 man, but I love my wheelies.

 

[Marco]

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One could always choose a revolver that shoots something other than .357 mag or .38spl and comes in a comparable package.

S&W and Ruger made revolvers that shoot 9mm.
There is the new .327 mag which has promise.
There is also an "L" framed .40 revolver that S&W released a few yrs back.
Let's not forget the 5 shot.44 spl and newer lite weight 45 acp revolvers.

Or the .41 mag, 10mm and 44 mag revolvers that come in 2" to 4" barreled designs.

I'm partial to using moon clips in revolvers.

 

[Bear]

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Yes, you are quite correct about the .38 being quicker with follow up shots. I still believe that one well placed shot from a proper caliber weapon is what works best.

I only, thank goodness, had to fire my duty weapon "in anger" once. I did not hear theexplosion or feel any recoil the only way I knew I had fired a round was fron a huge fireball. So again I still believe that the .357 is far superior to the .38 and I will continue to carry one.

I just purchased a Taurus 617 and will be testing it tomorrow. I willbe posting my experences with several bullet weights and calibers'

 

[Grapeshot]

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old bear wrote:

Yes, you are quite correct about the .38 being quicker with follow up shots. I still believe that one well placed shot from a proper caliber weapon is what works best.

The .357 mag is an infinitely superior round.

Unfortunately, many (most) one shot stops don't.

Good advice - shoot until the threat is over.

Yata hey

 

[Citizen]

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Grapeshot wrote:

SNIP The .357 mag is an infinitely superior round.

[Note to self: Don't let Grapeshot use comparatives without supervision. ]

If its infinitely superior, it must be superlative.

Oh, my.



(Oh, crud. I just noticed he's logged-on right now.)

 

[Grapeshot]

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Citizen wrote:

Grapeshot wrote:

SNIP The .357 mag is an infinitely superior round.

[Note to self: Don't let Grapeshot use comparatives without supervision. ]

If its infinitely superior, it must be superlative.

Oh, my.



(Oh, crud. I just noticed he's logged-on right now.)

For many years the .357 mag was considered by many to be the standard by which all others were judged.

Comparative or superlative - your choice.

BTW - I'm very patient.

Yata hey

 

[Bear]

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First impressions of my Taurus 617 with .38 special and .357 ammo.



Just picked this up last Friday, as the replacement for my 35 year M-19 2 ½”



Single action trigger pull felt as smooth as the new off the shelf S&W’s I considered.



Double action trigger pull, not as smooth as the S&W guns I tested.



Low profile sights were as accurate as I was, enough said.



Factory, Packmyer style grips were a God Send with, 357 loads.





Ammo used:

20 rounds Federal 38 special 110 Gr “low recoil” Believe me these were very low recoil rounds and were very comfortable to shoot.


50 rounds Federal 38 special + P 158 Gr lead swhp( The old FBI load) These were a step up in recoil and muzzle blast, but were very manageable. I think these may be a hand full in something such as an “Air weight” Chiefs Special or similar sized weapon.

50 rounds Speer 125 Gr jhp. A big step up in recoil and muzzle blast, they were manageable a not uncomfortable to shoot, but I knew I was shooting a .357 load.

50 rounds Speer 158 Gr. Jhp. These were the real deal a full house .357 load. The recoil was a full push back, not up, and 5 hours later my left shoulder, the one with an old and never properly treated dislocation, is still slightly tender. Thanks to Icy Hot patches and two ounces of Wild Turkey only after all of the guns were cleaned and put away. I’m not noticing the soreness too much.

Conclusions: I would not consider the 110 Gr’s for S/D.

The 158 Gr.+P should be a decent S/D load. Based on destruction of water filled gallon jugs.

The 125 Gr. 357 will be my ammo of choice for S/D.

The 158 Gr. 357 will be saved for my old 5’ M-27.

I hope this information is of help to someone.

Safe shooting all, and remember to have fun with everything you do.

 

[Virginian683]

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To say nothing of hollowpoints, if you want to see the effect of a lead roundnose .38 special striking a human target look here:

http://www.athousandandone.com/photos/0/4493b049bfa96_s.jpg

.357 has better penetration against hard barriers. Depending on the bullet design and weight, it can exhibit less penetration in gelatin than the equivalent .38 (light, fast bullets that open up too quickly.) That is the only difference that can be quantified. Everything else is, IMHO, superstition and myth (not to mention the advertising coup of naming it "magnum".)

If I owned and were inclined to carry an SP-101, I would load it with a "weak" .357 like the Remington GS, to bring it up to 9mm ballistics. Personally I would never carry a gun loaded with "full house" .357's for self-defense. It's not worth the blast.

I don't think anything near the majority of police agencies ever went to .357 from .38, despite it being available since the 1930's.

 

[Alexcabbie]

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Funny thing, around 1979/80 when I was attending college (major: Criminal Justice Administration) and most cops were carrying revolvers one of them remarked to me that "you will never see a 9 MM in Fairfax County. " Guess what Fairfax County carries now?

And really I think the .38 Spl has superior "knockdown power" than the 9 mm Luger. For my money I'll take either.

As far as self defense goes, the main thing is as Jeff Cooper said is tht you resist. If you resist, you might win. If you don't, you will lose, every time. A kick in the nads is better than abject surrender, a .22 is better and a heavier caliber is better still. It is an established fact that just seeing a drawn firearm is a powerful incentive to most assailants to end the encounter and flee. I don't care if it is a .22 short or a .500 Magnum, nobody and I mean nobody wants to get shot.

However one cardinal rule is that if you have any doubts about using the lethal force of a firearm if justified and there is no other way to resolve things, then as have previously written have your local gunsmith file down the sights so it won;t hurt when the BG takes it and shoves it up your butt. Seriously.

 

[Grapeshot]

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Alexcabbie wrote:

Funny thing, around 1979/80 when I was attending college (major: Criminal Justice Administration) and most cops were carrying revolvers one of them remarked to me that "you will never see a 9 MM in Fairfax County. " Guess what Fairfax County carries now?

And really I think the .38 Spl has superior "knockdown power" than the 9 mm Luger. For my money I'll take either.

As far as self defense goes, the main thing is as Jeff Cooper said is tht you resist. If you resist, you might win. If you don't, you will lose, every time. A kick in the nads is better than abject surrender, a .22 is better and a heavier caliber is better still. It is an established fact that just seeing a drawn firearm is a powerful incentive to most assailants to end the encounter and flee. I don't care if it is a .22 short or a .500 Magnum, nobody and I mean nobody wants to get shot.

However one cardinal rule is that if you have any doubts about using the lethal force of a firearm if justified and there is no other way to resolve things, then as have previously written have your local gunsmith file down the sights so it won;t hurt when the BG takes it and shoves it up your butt. Seriously.

Since this an OC forum, lets not forget to mention (again) that just the sight of a defensively carried handgun is most often enough to stop the attack before it occurs.

Read: More Guns, Less Crime by John R. Lott, Jr.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/presssite/metadata.epl?mode=synopsis&bookkey=3635890

Yata hey

 

[RebelHell]

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If I were to buy a revolver (which I am looking into getting a snubby) I think I will get a .38 over a .357. I have used some logic in coming up with my decision.

First, .38 ammo is significantly cheaper.

Second, I understand the .357 will shoot .38's but If I practice with .38's because they are cheaper you can be damn sure thats what I am gonna carry. So whats the point in .357?

Third, I will probably be getting a lightweight snub for an ankle holster and the prospect of shooting .357's out of a lightweight snubby makes my hand hurt just thinking about it.

 

[RebelHell]

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I just remembered one more reason. Have you ever seen the muzzle flash from a .357 snubby? If you ever had to use it in self defense at night, you would be blind after the first shot.

 

[PDinDetroit]

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Nutczak wrote:

I still have my Ruger GP 100 4" stainless "Heavy Barrel" from 20+ years ago, I used to carry it in an IWB holster in the small of my back. I have found the 110 grain JHP's .357 to be a wonderful load for the gun for almost anything. When i want to punish my wrist and arms, I'll load with 185 grain bullets.

I also have a Ruger GP 100 4" Stainless that I carry when in the woods. I think there must be a "Man Law" that every man must own at least 1 wheel-gun in his lifetime.

I got the Hogue Recoil Tamer Replacement Grip which has made a huge difference in felt recoil, accuracy, and follow-up shots. I can now fire a box of 50 - 158 Grain .357 Magnums and barely notice the recoil. Even my 16 yo daughter likes shooting it now!!!

 

[Grapeshot]

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RebelHell wrote:

I just remembered one more reason. Have you ever seen the muzzle flash from a .357 snubby? If you ever had to use it in self defense at night, you would be blind after the first shot.

You shoot with your eyes open? :shock:

The muzzle flash from a hot .357 (185 gr Silvertip) can be awesome, even from a 4" barrel.

Yata hey

 

[Marco]

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Grapeshot wrote:

The muzzle flash from a hot .357 (185 gr Silvertip) can be awesome, even from a 4" barrel.

Just splitting hairs;
Winchester's .357mag Silvertip is a 145gr loading.

I find winchester's 110grJHP (@1290fps) an excellent loading for those that want more power than .38pl offers with out the excessive recoil of th 125gr or >magnum loads, especially when using a lite weight snubby.