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A Call to Arms

Flintlock

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marshaul wrote:
Regardless, your so-called "2nd American revolution" was a failure. I prefer to consider the next revolution our second, so as to associate it with our successful revolution against this British without calling to mind the failed rebellion of the Confederate states. ;)
Very interesting...

Soif there is victory from the side that you support, it is a"revolution" andif there is defeat of the side that you do not support, it is a "failed rebellion."
 

Tomahawk

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Well, the Revolution was called a "revolution" for a reason: it was a major change in not only form of government, but in philosophy of government and a solidification of the ideas of the Enlightenment. Many people think of the Declaration of Independence and the founding of the American republic as the high-water mark of the Enlightenment. It was certainly more than just a simple revolt and secession of the colonies from Britain.

The war of 1861-65, whose name I shall leave up to the reader, on the other hand, was not a major revolution in ideas. You could call it the Second War for Independence, I suppose...
 

marshaul

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Flintlock wrote:
marshaul wrote:
Regardless, your so-called "2nd American revolution" was a failure. I prefer to consider the next revolution our second, so as to associate it with our successful revolution against this British without calling to mind the failed rebellion of the Confederate states. ;)
Very interesting...

So if there is victory from the side that you support, it is a "revolution" and if there is defeat of the side that you do not support, it is a "failed rebellion." 
This is not my rule; it is the "rule of history". When failed, they are "rebellions". When victorious and writing the history books, they are "revolutions". ;)

Edit: But seriously, Tomahawk made the point I was going to make. A rebellion isn't a "revolution" if it fails, because the societal and governmental changes that define "revolution" fail to occur. Even my dictionary defines "revolution" as 'a forcible overthrow of a government or social order in favor of a new system', which precludes failure.
 

KansasMustang

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Mark Edward, I applaud you on your enthusiasm. I also fear that this fight may come to an exchange of hostilities. No one I know of calls the *War Between the States* as the 2nd Revolution. Course i'm not from the *deep South* So our history calls it the Civil War. But BEFORE Thomas Jefferson and John Adams and all the Founders went to war they TRIED desperately to negotiate with England to cease and desist the TAXES and tarrifs imposed on US for the goods shipped here.
The Revolution was fought about taxes and the imposition of harboring troops in our homes. This fight is against stupid people that think that guns kill people.
WE must be prepared to take up arms, God forbid, but Thomas Jefferson believed that Revolution was necessary to renew the government every generation or so. I will stand ready and not go silently into the dark. But before I take up Arms to do so, I will allow for the John Adams', and Ben Franklins, and the other diplomats of our times to TRY to use calmer heads and negotiate with the *ignorant bastidges* that want our weapons and our FREEDOM. Then after all else has failed,,,,Keep your powder dry. Just me sayin it
 

Alexcabbie

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I speak as an NRA member. And I think that everyone knows that my credentials in support of the 2nd Amendment are indisputable.

The National Rifle Association has its faults, and I am aware of many who think they are solely for the "Fudds" and will willingly sell handgun owners down the river in the name of the "Fudders". The antis know differently. The late Washington Post editorial cartoonist "Herblock" would always portray the NRA as Zoot-suited mobsters bribing Congressmen to allow the killing of - what else? - innocent children. Some fruitcake I was talking with at a party a few years back called the NRA, in a very snide tone, "The National Handgun Association." The NRA has been called "The most powerful lobby in Washington" many times by many people on both ends of the political spectrum.

Now I ask you: If you are hunting rhinoceros and your .500 Nitro Express is not shooting straight, do you then pull out a .22 to do the job?? No, you adjust the sights on that Nitro. An increased membership is not only more money, it is a lobby within the lobby. The shortcomings of the NRA can best be addressed by a little "Putsch" in the right direction by the rank- and - file; and thje more the better. So join AND be an ACTIVE member.
 
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Reforming the NRA (negotiate rights away) is as useless as Ron Paul's attempt to reform the Republican party. It ain't gonna happen. Not that I disagree with Dr. Paul, but let's be honest. If you're interested in results, start from scratch with a better plan.
 

SANDCREEK

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Bottom line - the concept imbedded in the 2A is working. Our government SHOULD ALWAYS respect , and if necessary fear the disfavor of the people. The 2A is the unltimate "check & balance". This is precisely WHY the 2A RIGHT was addressed for protection directly following the 1A RIGHTS.

The primary reason our government officials have "infringed" upon this RIGHT - is that the PEOPLE who possess this RIGHT have not excercised it. The PEOPLE bow in the shadow of government edict and threat of force - rather than stand their ground and confront government tyranny.

A "march" into D.C. is long overdue.

Interesting editorial opinion "The Case for Guns & Religion" www.gazette.com click "OPINION".
 
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Sandcreek,
The concept is NOT working or else we wouldn't be where we are today.
Anytime an entire police department can capture you at gunpoint and snicker about it, long after a civil suit is settled and NO criminal prosecution occurs, it's more than obvious they are not the least bit concerned about the 2nd amendments TRUE purpose.
"Should respect" and "do respect" are two totally different matters, agreed?
Perhaps a refresher course is in order?
 

shad0wfax

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marshaul wrote:
Broadcast media is already censored, statist propaganda. The "war" between "liberal" and "conservative" (statist) media is hilarious, or would be if people didn't take it seriously.

So, what's so scary about fairness doctrine? Government-controlled, statist media is going to have to favor the party in power, instead of favoring the party in power?

You're being had.
Alright, let me rephrase: The first amendment is the only one that gets any respect when it benefits the leftists/marxists.
 
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You are soooooooooo dead on. Some years ago, a photographer for the local (Baton Rouge) newspaper was arrested for taking pictures at a crime scene. Oh, what a story they made out of that for days !!
What a shame they didn't (at that time) have the same concern for gun rights.
 

Gordie

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G.O.A. may not be as big as the N.R.A., but that doesn't mean that they are totally ineffective. Although large numbers of members are good, they aren't everything. Small groups can make a difference, if they are very vocal and active, just look at some of the environmental and animal rights groups that affect policy. The only difference between them and most gun owners is the fact that they are passionate enough to fight, not just for a little while as long as it's convenient, but for the long haul.

Numbers may get you recognized by politicians initially, but activity also plays into the influence you have, without it you quickly lose their attention. The current U.S. population is approximately 305 million, the current N.R.A. membership is approximately 4.3 million (1.4% of the U.S. population). In my state of Nevada we have a population of about 2 million, one organization of about 450 members (.000225% of the state population) affects gun policy for the entire state. We would love to have 1.4% of the population on our membership rolls, but the reality is that we just don't. What we do have is a few very dedicated members that are willing to invest a LOT of timeworking with our state's lawmakers and L.E.O.s.

We don't threaten them with anything other than revealing their voting records to the public. We use only the law as it is written and logical arguments, but we are relentless.

Yes, numbers are important, but a small, determined, andactive group will accomplish more than a huge inactive one that is willing to give in without a fight almost every time. No we don't win every battle, but progress is being steadily made.

It is estimated that thereare about 52 million households with guns in them in the U.S. Imagine what we could do if just one person from each household, or even one in five,becameACTIVE in the fight to defend our rights.
 

Alexcabbie

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American labor first became powerful when two rivals, the American Federation of Labor and the Congress of Industrial Organizations, merged to become the AFL-CIO.

John S. Lewis and Samuel Gompers forged an alliance that is the sole rival of the NRA as dc's most powerful lobby. Anybody for the NRA-GOA??
 

rodbender

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I would buy a 1 year membership, first compromise-----I'm gone. The NRA was a no compromise organization back in the 60's and early 70's. How I miss the old NRA.
 

Tomahawk

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rodbender wrote:
I would buy a 1 year membership, first compromise-----I'm gone. The NRA was a no compromise organization back in the 60's and early 70's. How I miss the old NRA.

Really? GCA '68 was one of NRA's non-compromises?

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?id=3247
FROM: TEXT OF PAGES 22 AND 23 OF NRA'S
AMERICAN RIFLEMAN MAGAZINE, MARCH 1968 EDITION


SNIP...NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts. The essential provisions which the NRA supports are contained in 2 Senate bills introduced by Senator Roman L. Hruska (Nebr.) and House bills introduced by Congressmen Cecil R. King (17th fist.-Calif.) and Robert L. F. Sikes (1st Dist.Fla.). These bills would:

1. Impose a mandatory penalty for the carrying or use of a firearm, transported in interstate or foreign commerce, during the commission of certain crimes.

2. Place "destructive devices" (bombs, mines, grenades, crew-served military ordnance) under Federal regulation.

3. Prohibit any licensed manufacturer or dealer from shipping any firearm to any person in any State in violation of the laws of that state.

4. Regulate the movement of handguns in interstate and foreign commerce by:


a. requiring a sworn statement, containing certain information, from the
CONTINUED ON PAGE 23 (text below)
THE AMERICAN RIFLEMAN
(March 1968)



purchaser to the seller for the receipt of a handgun in interstate commerce;

b. providing for notification of local police of prospective sales;

c. requiring an additional 7-day waiting period by the seller after receipt of acknowledgement of notification to local police;

d. prescribing a minimum age of 21 for obtaining a license to sell firearms and increasing the license fees;

e. providing for written notification by manufacturer or dealer to carrier that a firearm is being shipped in interstate commerce;

f. increasing penalties for violation.
NRA was trying to make nicey-nicey with Bobby Kennedy. Old NRA indeed.
 

KansasMustang

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Mark Edward,
Not trying to personally attack you or anything of that nature. No offense, but why is it that you're always so negative about dang near anything that anyone has to say? Personally, I've been a member of the NRA since '75' and while I admit they haven't ALWAYS won on gun rights issues, for the longest time THEY were the only voice in the wilderness. Don't sit there all high and mighty and be the pot callin the kettle black. Come out with POSITIVE words and actions oh holier than thou one. IF you think that armed rebellion is called for than make that call. I pick my battles very well and even tho' I am a prior Ranger and Armored Cavalry trooper I know when to attack and when to retrograde and reconoiter and wait for the proper time. Use the process of METT-T wait til ALL other options have failed. THEN and only then we must be prepared to go to the final step.
But you will gain nothing by your attacks upon the NRA, your negative comments, and your attitude against those who would gladly stand by you if you'd just listen to reason.
WE collectively have to draw a line. MY personal line is registration. IF the Obama administration puts forth that ALL guns will be registered,,or any for that matter, initially I will just ignore the order, then if it gets to the point when I hear of it being enforced then the line has been crossed. But what are your core values, where do you draw your line? ARE you willing,,and I ask of all of you to give up your homes, your current somewhat easy life to live in a cave and fight a battle ?? I've shed blood my brothers and sisters. I've had communist steel pierce my body. It freekin hurts. BUT I'm thinking that the mere promise of an armed citizenry in revolt is a deterrent. Kind of like the mutually assured deterrent of Nuclear war. SO if we are going to have any impact on the outcome of this situation we must react en masse. IN other words, organize marches and peaceful demonstrations and gatherings. Join SOME pro-gun organization, could you imagine if instead the NRA spoke with 40 million voices as opposed to the 5 or 6 million now? IF the 80 plus million gun owners would ALL collectively have peaceful gatherings in every city and town across the nation the Progressive meatheads would sit up and take notice. Armed insurgency is the VERY last resort, not the knee jerk reaction.
 

gsx1138

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I never have a problem arguing our gun rights because I believe in the constitution. That means equality for everyone. There are some gun owners who can't claim that. They want separate but equal rights for gays. They want a "fairness" law that infringes on free speech. My take, equality for everyone. You don't have to like my gun but you shouldn't tell I can't have one or what kind I can have. I don't like two dudes kissing but I'm not going to tell them they can't or tell them where they can. Equality under the constitution trumps all arguments. Because as soon as you choose one right to fight for but choose to infringe on another your argument is hypocritical bullsh!t.

As for the NRA, I haven't made up my mind. I really really really don't like their defensive stance when it comes to our rights. I don't hunt, I own weapons. Once they stop pandering towards the hunter sportsman angle I'll give them another look.
 

marine77

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(Tried to get this little part in, not computer savvy enough.)

Are you willing...and i ask all of you to give up your homes, your current somewhat

easy life to live in a cave and fight a battle.



I have to put my 2 cents worth in, a lot of people would not take to this level, i

believe. I've been there when it's colder than crackers, on the outside looking in,

wishing i had that fire to keep me warm. Anybody who hasn't been in a situation

with no shelter, being wet and cold knows how valuable this "somewhat? (to me it

beats the heck out of what i've been talking about above) easy life" and also the

fighting is the most unimaginable for those who have never experianced it.
 
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