A little ot Just got my house searched

[DevinWKuska]

What search found Clemems? Wasn't he killed in the street for approaching a cop and refusing orders? Interesting enough many of the big time bad guys are found by patrol and especially traffic patrol.SNIP

Clemens was hiding in his families house when the police came to talk with them. Later the police stated they had thought it odd the family always came outside to talk with them. SOrry dont have clips of the news that was showing the interviews.

On a side not his refusal to take orders is purely based on that one police officers statement. No witnesses can back that claim. Not being anti-govt or anything but its no secret if you kill a LEO your a dead man walking. I can only think of 1 time I heard of a cop-killer surviving till trial, and that person turned themselves in @ an FBI field office. Shooting 3 police officers... I am surprised his hands were not found bound, with 2 rounds to the back of his head, and one center mass...

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Clemens was hiding in his families house when the police came to talk with them. Later the police stated they had thought it odd the family always came outside to talk with them. SOrry dont have clips of the news that was showing the interviews.

On a side not his refusal to take orders is purely based on that one police officers statement. No witnesses can back that claim. Not being anti-govt or anything but its no secret if you kill a LEO your a dead man walking. I can only think of 1 time I heard of a cop-killer surviving till trial, and that person turned themselves in @ an FBI field office. Shooting 3 police officers... I am surprised his hands were not found bound, with 2 rounds to the back of his head, and one center mass...

Before he was killed I told my wife he's not going to make it to trial.

 

[PALO]

Clemens was hiding in his families house when the police came to talk with them. Later the police stated they had thought it odd the family always came outside to talk with them. SOrry dont have clips of the news that was showing the interviews.

On a side not his refusal to take orders is purely based on that one police officers statement. No witnesses can back that claim. Not being anti-govt or anything but its no secret if you kill a LEO your a dead man walking. I can only think of 1 time I heard of a cop-killer surviving till trial, and that person turned themselves in @ an FBI field office. Shooting 3 police officers... I am surprised his hands were not found bound, with 2 rounds to the back of his head, and one center mass...

this is utter *********

first of all, do i need to cite all the people who shoot police officers, just here in this state who are NOT killed by police? sorry, but that's just histrionic teevee inspired rubbish, refuted by facts.

feel free to take a gander at (for example) ODMP.org which lists every police officer killed in the line of duty, and research individual cases. a substantial percentage of cop killers are not killed, but are arrested , often without incident.

sorry, but your statement is wholly refuted by real world evidence.

second of all, clemons shot 4 officers, not 3

i find your statement highly bigoted, since it's completely inconsistent with what happens in the real world.

the substantial majority of cop killers who ARE killed are clearly killed justifiably, either because they continue shooting at cops or do something stupid

the facts of clemons shooting are this.

an officer on patrol saw a vehicle suspiciously parked with it's hood up (can't recall if engine was idling) on the side of the road.

so, he went to investigate, and discovered it was a reported stolen

AS he was processing it, he observed a man that looked like clemons approaching on foot. this was hours after the shooting incident, and there was not a cop in WA state who wasn't keenly aware of clemons face

sure, you can believe whatever you want, about the cop ordering clemons to show his hands etc. but it's pretty clear clemons left the car there to draw an officer to the scene to investigate and he planned on attacking the officer. he WAs still armed with the handgun when he was shot and killed, which is where he was reaching when the cop shot him. the ONLY reason imo (and yes, it's speculation) that officer is alive is because he was very aware and keeping his eyes open and didn't allow clemons to sneak up on him while he processed a "routine" stolen

why else would clemons be approaching the officer on foot, WHILE he was processign the stolen car (and like i said, it's almost certain he planted it there for the purpose of getting the drop on an officer), and KNOWING that he was literally the most wanted man in the state at that moment AND still armed with a gun, iirc the gun that he got off one of the officers he shot, if he did NOT intend to shoot that officer?

i mean, apply common sense, the smell test, and what he already proved himself capable of doing - waiting for a situation where he would have a clear tactical advantage to get a drop on and execute officers. that's what he DID at forza. why would his behavior in the dead of night, on a lonely street be ANY different.

he had AMPLE opportunity to turn himself in, but if you believe he had any intent besides killing the officer, based on the totality of known facts of the incident, including his being armed at the time and approaching on foot etc. you aren't applying common sense.

he could have EASILY turned himself in. heck, he could have walked into the PD (which has ample video btw) with his hands up, he could have simply gone to any public place and called 911 from a pay phone, he could have called a defense attorney (who would jump at the opportunity) and arrange to turn himself in, etc. in fact, everything he did after the shooting (and note several family members received stiff sentences for accessory after the fact, etc.) showed that he had ZERO intent of turning himself in

this is a guy who already demonstrated through both words AND actions that he had ZERO compunctions about slaughtering cops, even as they sat down to drink coffee.

NO cop in his right mind is going to wait for clemons to draw, or get the drop on him under those circs, and i suspect the incident played out just as the officer said it did, because it was consistent with clemons' past behavior, common sense, and the fact that clemons was still armed.

again, i am more than willing to provide cites for cop killers NOT killed during arrest, but since you made the completely unfounded claim, i suggest the burden is on you.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I'd be interested in seeing the statistics PALO. Since you made the claim they are not. You do realize that there is a difference between cop killers and those who happen to kill a police officer in evading arrest or because it being a crime of opportunity? There was even an FBI study presented here at one time that showed the difference.

You do realize that no one condemned the officer that killed Clemens or his actions. But a guy like Clemmons wasn't going to be taken alive, he would put himself in a position to be killed.

 

[PALO]

I'd be interested in seeing the statistics PALO. Since you made the claim they are not. You do realize that there is a difference between cop killers and those who happen to kill a police officer in evading arrest or because it being a crime of opportunity? There was even an FBI study presented here at one time that showed the difference.

You do realize that no one condemned the officer that killed Clemens or his actions. But a guy like Clemmons wasn't going to be taken alive, he would put himself in a position to be killed.

again, YOU made the claim, so the burden is on you. i am saying it is unsupported by evidence, and can cite a substantial %age who are NOT killed.

heck, even the guy who executed dep herzog was taken into custody without incident.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21108-master-corporal-sandra-e-sandy-rogers

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21102-corporal-barbara-ester

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21098-agent-francis-crespo-mandry

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21078-agent-jared-francom

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21020-detective-michael-morgan

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21032-police-officer-james-capoot

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21036-correctional-officer-buddy-ray-herron

http://www.odmp.org/officer/21041-police-officer-anthony-alan-tony-giniewicz


here's a narrative from one:

Detective Peter Figoski was shot and killed while responding to a robbery call on Pine Street, in Brooklyn, at approximately 2:00 am.

Detective Figoski and his partner responded to a call of a home invasion robbery. When they arrived, two officers were on the scene interviewing the victim and a witness. Unknown to the officers, the robbery suspects were still inside the basement apartment hiding.

The two suspects then attempted to flee from the apartment and one suspect engaged in a struggle with Detective Figoski's partner. The second suspect then appeared and shot Detective Figoski in the head. Upon hearing the shot and seeing the armed male fleeing, Detective Figoski's partner broke from the first suspect and pursued the gunman on foot, apprehending him after a two block foot chase."

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/officer/21042-detective-peter-figoski#ixzz1mBA1YV00



i went through the officers killed stabbing or shooting in the past couple of months ( i ignored heart attacks, vehicle accidents, etc.)

a few suspects are still at large

a few were killed by officers

a few committed suicide with their own gun

and these above were taken into custody, some w/o any injuries whatsoever, and a couple after bieng wounded

again, your claims are refuted EASILY by evidence

so, again... facts matter. not what you see on teevee (yea, i saw the fugitive too...).

here's another.

so, i suggest you retract, or at least rethink your statement...

Agent Isaac Pizarro-Pizarro was shot and killed in an ambush in what is believed to be retaliation for a narcotics investigation he was involved in.

He was driving to a family member's home when he was confronted by several subjects, including two juveniles, at the intersection of PR-187 and Calle 7 in Loiza, Puerto Rico. Agent Pizarro-Pizarro attempted to drive away, but the subjects opened fire on him, firing at least 60 rounds at this fleeing vehicle. He was fatally wounded during the shooting.

Three suspects, including two juveniles, were arrested the following day and charged with murder and violations of the Arms Act.

Agent Pizarro-Pizarro had served with the Puerto Rico Police Department for eight years and was assigned to the Narcotics Division in Carolina. He is survived by his mother and several brothers.

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/officer/21052-agent-isaac-joel-pizarro-pizarro#ixzz1mBAn6RRF

and another

Master Public Safety Officer Scotty Richardson was shot and killed after he and another officer stopped a suspicious vehicle on Brandt Court, near Camellia Street, shortly before 9:00 pm.

Officers had been searching for the vehicle in relation to an incident earlier in the evening. After the stop, one of the occupants immediately opened fire, fatally wounding Officer Richardson and striking the other officer in the chest. The second officer's vest stopped the round. Officer Richardson was transported to Georgia Health Sciences University Hospital where he died early the following morning.

Several suspects were arrested in connection with Officer Richardson's murder.

Officer Richardson had served with the Aiken Department of Public Safety for 12 years. He is survived by his wife and three young children.

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/officer/21064-master-public-safety-officer-scotty-richardson#ixzz1mBBBbLM8

and another

Officer Arnulfo Crispin was shot and killed while making contact with suspicious individuals near Crystal Grove Drive at approximately 10:15 pm.

Officer Crispin exited his cruiser to make contact with the three subjects in a closed park and while checking one subject for weapons, was shot from behind by another.

A second officer arrived at the scene seven minutes later and found Officer Crispin unresponsive. He was taken to Lakeland Regional Medical Center where he underwent several hours of surgery. He remained in grave condition for two days before succumbing to his wounds.

Twelve agencies responded to search for the suspect, who turned himself in after a ten-hour manhunt.

Officer Crispin had served with the Lakeland Police Department for 18 months. He is survived by eight siblings.

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/officer/21058-police-officer-arnulfo-crispin#ixzz1mBBMH04M


and another

olice Officer Clifton Lewis was shot and killed while attempting to take action during a robbery at a grocery store on North Austin Boulevard.

He was working an overtime security detail at the store, which had been robbed several weeks earlier, when two male subjects entered at about 8:30 pm. One of the men shot Officer Lewis multiple times before grabbing his service weapon and badge and fleeing the store.

Officer Lewis was transported to Stroger Hospital where he succumbed to his wounds. The two suspects were arrested and charged in connection with Officer Lewis' murder.

Officer Lewis had served with the Chicago Police Department for eight years and was assigned to the 15th District's Tactical Team. He is survived by his daughter, mother, and fiancee.

Read more: http://www.odmp.org/officer/21069-police-officer-clifton-lewis#ixzz1mBBTX6oi


and again, these are not cherry picked. i JUST LOOKED THROUGH THE DEATHS FROM THE LAST FEW MONTHS

nowhere close to all people who shoot/'stab cops are "executed" by cops. it's not even CLOSE. tons are just plain arrested.

the choice is almost always theirs.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Thanks for the links, but it wasn't me who made the claim. Just saying. So I don't have to retract anything.

There is a difference between someone determined to kill a cop and one that happens in avoidance of detainment or prosecution. Clemmons planned and murdered cops. Do you have statistics on those who premeditate the murder of cops how many of those make it to trial? I'd like to see that. Out of curiosity.

 

[PALO]

Thanks for the links, but it wasn't me who made the claim. Just saying. So I don't have to retract anything.

There is a difference between someone determined to kill a cop and one that happens in avoidance of detainment or prosecution. Clemmons planned and murdered cops. Do you have statistics on those who premeditate the murder of cops how many of those make it to trial? I'd like to see that. Out of curiosity.

that's impossible to have statistics ON, since whether they PREmeditated it is clearly a question in the first place.

some, it's obvious. some, not so much.

the point is that, and i apologize since you werent' the one who made the claim... my bad, the OP's claim that cop killers don't make it to trial because cops always shoot them is demonstrably false

a SUBSTANTIAL %age of those who are apprehended get caught without a scratch

the OP's implication is that cops illegally gun these people down out of revenge, which is not supported by evidence

again, i apologize for misattributing the claim

 

[sudden valley gunner]

that's impossible to have statistics ON, since whether they PREmeditated it is clearly a question in the first place.

some, it's obvious. some, not so much.

the point is that, and i apologize since you werent' the one who made the claim... my bad, the OP's claim that cop killers don't make it to trial because cops always shoot them is demonstrably false

a SUBSTANTIAL %age of those who are apprehended get caught without a scratch

the OP's implication is that cops illegally gun these people down out of revenge, which is not supported by evidence

again, i apologize for misattributing the claim

No problem no harm no foul. I just like to learn more about peoples viewpoints especially when new to the forum. Welcome by the way.

It was posted here one time though that there is a major difference for "cop killers" who make it their intent to kill police, it was an FBI study. So they do have a study on those that premeditated killing officers, I would be interested just from curiosity if there is a way we can find out how many of those make it to trial. Clemmons was one of these rare "cop killers" and he didn't make it to trial, but I knew he wasn't going down without a fight and he would loose and I have a feeling that because of the 'cop killers' mentality many of them might not make it to trial.

 

[PALO]

No problem no harm no foul. I just like to learn more about peoples viewpoints especially when new to the forum. Welcome by the way.

It was posted here one time though that there is a major difference for "cop killers" who make it their intent to kill police, it was an FBI study. So they do have a study on those that premeditated killing officers, I would be interested just from curiosity if there is a way we can find out how many of those make it to trial. Clemmons was one of these rare "cop killers" and he didn't make it to trial, but I knew he wasn't going down without a fight and he would loose and I have a feeling that because of the 'cop killers' mentality many of them might not make it to trial.

i think that's a different question than the OP's implication. if the guy WANTS to go down in a hail of gunfire, he can almost always accomplish thkat.

many do so. heck, some noncopkillers do suicide by cop with unloaded guns out of express desire to have the cops do their own dirty work

what the OP implied was that cops unjustly gun down cop killers without letting them have a chance to surrender, etc. which is what i was saying was bigoted hogwash, and easily refutable by evidence

 

[sudden valley gunner]

i think that's a different question than the OP's implication. if the guy WANTS to go down in a hail of gunfire, he can almost always accomplish thkat.

many do so. heck, some noncopkillers do suicide by cop with unloaded guns out of express desire to have the cops do their own dirty work

what the OP implied was that cops unjustly gun down cop killers without letting them have a chance to surrender, etc. which is what i was saying was bigoted hogwash, and easily refutable by evidence

Yep well aware of what he was saying I was purposefully focusing and discussing a different aspect and a different type of cop killers. Most cops who die in the line of duty or not, killed by these very focused unique individuals. I think last year is the first time that being killed by weapons surpassed being killed in a car wreck in a long time Clemmons actions didn't help with that statistic.

 

[PALO]

Yep well aware of what he was saying I was purposefully focusing and discussing a different aspect and a different type of cop killers. Most cops who die in the line of duty or not, killed by these very focused unique individuals. I think last year is the first time that being killed by weapons surpassed being killed in a car wreck in a long time Clemmons actions didn't help with that statistic.

depends on how you define car wreck. are you referring to accidential collisions only, or also intentional assaults (being run over on purpose, etc.), and/or based on reckless driving, vehicular pursuit, etc.

2010 for example could be looked at either way

http://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2010


Total Line of Duty Deaths: 162
9/11 related illness: 2
Accidental: 1
Aircraft accident: 2
Assault: 5
Automobile accident: 43
Boating accident: 1
Drowned: 1
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 59
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 13
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 5
Struck by vehicle: 7
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 4
Vehicular assault: 13





Read more: http://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2010#ixzz1mHnpAKBy

 

[sudden valley gunner]

depends on how you define car wreck. are you referring to accidential collisions only, or also intentional assaults (being run over on purpose, etc.), and/or based on reckless driving, vehicular pursuit, etc.

2010 for example could be looked at either way

http://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2010


Total Line of Duty Deaths: 162
9/11 related illness: 2
Accidental: 1
Aircraft accident: 2
Assault: 5
Automobile accident: 43
Boating accident: 1
Drowned: 1
Fall: 2
Gunfire: 59
Gunfire (Accidental): 2
Heart attack: 13
Heat exhaustion: 1
Motorcycle accident: 5
Struck by vehicle: 7
Training accident: 1
Vehicle pursuit: 4
Vehicular assault: 13





Read more: http://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2010#ixzz1mHnpAKBy

Nice link, I like it even better than the DOJ one. Although obviously biased.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/20381-deputy-sheriff-kory-elwyn-dahlvig how was this even murder or vehicle assault, negligence yes the officer ran into the back of him? I think the 13 "vehicle" assaults are mislabled though, this wasn't specifically done to target officers and could have happened to anyone?

That is interesting because a person can massage the statistics to go either way. If we leave out the drunk drivers and accidently being struck by cars, then getting shot in the line of duty is higher. I am going to book mark that link its a good source of reference.

 

[PALO]

Nice link, I like it even better than the DOJ one. Although obviously biased.

http://www.odmp.org/officer/20381-deputy-sheriff-kory-elwyn-dahlvig how was this even murder or vehicle assault, negligence yes the officer ran into the back of him? I think the 13 "vehicle" assaults are mislabled though, this wasn't specifically done to target officers and could have happened to anyone?

That is interesting because a person can massage the statistics to go either way. If we leave out the drunk drivers and accidently being struck by cars, then getting shot in the line of duty is higher. I am going to book mark that link its a good source of reference.

i would have to know the law of the state and a lot more case facts to answer that

in most states, "vehicular homicide" is where a person is either grossly negligent or reckless and causes a death.

that would qualify. remember, these are just statistical ways to classify stuff. it's a BIT subjective, and of course case laws vary state to state as well

there was a cop up in everett, who a few years back was chasing an auto theft suspect on foot and got killed when he chased the guy and fell off a bridge

in some states, that would subject the offender to some sort of felony murder charge (where a person commits a felony, and a person dies pursuant to the felony, either through attempt to apprehend him or whatever)

in some states, it has to be aVIOLENT felony, so auto theft wouldn't apply

in some states, they can charge a bank robber with murder if their ACCOMPLICE gets shot by a cop, bank guard, or armed person.

in general, the stats even out, but if you read every one, a few might seem weird on their face. again, remmeber these are just summaries too. iow, the guy who was charged with vehicle homicide may ALSO have been DUI or somethign. the article doesn't say (in many states, DUI causing deaht is vehicle homicide. in SOME the person doesn't even have to cause it. iow a DUI sitting at a red light, gets rear ended and the person dies - the DUI could be charged vehicle homicide. iow, they have to be a proximate cause)

 

[sudden valley gunner]

i would have to know the law of the state and a lot more case facts to answer that

in most states, "vehicular homicide" is where a person is either grossly negligent or reckless and causes a death.

that would qualify. remember, these are just statistical ways to classify stuff. it's a BIT subjective, and of course case laws vary state to state as well

there was a cop up in everett, who a few years back was chasing an auto theft suspect on foot and got killed when he chased the guy and fell off a bridge

in some states, that would subject the offender to some sort of felony murder charge (where a person commits a felony, and a person dies pursuant to the felony, either through attempt to apprehend him or whatever)

in some states, it has to be aVIOLENT felony, so auto theft wouldn't apply

in some states, they can charge a bank robber with murder if their ACCOMPLICE gets shot by a cop, bank guard, or armed person.

in general, the stats even out, but if you read every one, a few might seem weird on their face. again, remmeber these are just summaries too. iow, the guy who was charged with vehicle homicide may ALSO have been DUI or somethign. the article doesn't say (in many states, DUI causing deaht is vehicle homicide. in SOME the person doesn't even have to cause it. iow a DUI sitting at a red light, gets rear ended and the person dies - the DUI could be charged vehicle homicide. iow, they have to be a proximate cause)

I think many of those cases are just overreaching for higher convictions by overzealous politicians and prosecutors.

I think though to include the DUI deaths as a statistic, as "dying in the line of duty" a little misleading since that can happen to anyone on the road, just so happens they are on the road more than most. Although I do agree that technically they were on duty, it isn't something that singles out officers over others who die similarly.

 

[bmg50cal]

This can be dangerous. You or your girlfriend might find yourselves charged with obstruction.There is an important distinction here. It is one thing to politely, verbally refuse consent. Its something else to not let them in.We've all heard of the warrant clause of the 4th Amendment. Much less known outside of lawyers, judges, and cops, is that there are a number of exceptions to the warrant requirement. In fact, there is a whole category of justifications called just that, "warrant exceptions."Look up things like "hot pursuit" and "community caretaking."If the cop has a warrant exception and you try to keep him out, you might get charged with obstruction. It doesn't matter what you know; what matters is the information the cop has, and whether it counts as a warrant exception.

I think there is a misunderstanding here... This is in the WA sub-forum not VA...

Washington's constitution provides greater privacy protection than even the Fourth Amendment.

http://www.leg.wa.gov/LAWSANDAGENCYRULES/Pages/constitution.aspxARTICLE I - SECTION 7 - INVASION OF PRIVATE AFFAIRS OR HOME PROHIBITED. No person shall be disturbed in his private affairs, or his home invaded, without authority of law.

In WA... no consent, no warrant; no lawful search; there are very few exceptions to this, officers looking for a rat that lives in an apartment does not give exception to search the ones next door.

Get arrested in your car in in WA they can't legally even search a safe in your trunk. One's home affords the same expectation of privacy.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/37/3717.asp

"We conclude that Monaghan had an additional privacy expectation in the locked container discovered in the search of the trunk in this case," Judge Cox wrote. "This search and seizure was without a warrant and without Monaghan's consent. Thus, it was without the authority of law that the Washington Constitution requires."

 

[PALO]

I think many of those cases are just overreaching for higher convictions by overzealous politicians and prosecutors.

I think though to include the DUI deaths as a statistic, as "dying in the line of duty" a little misleading since that can happen to anyone on the road, just so happens they are on the road more than most. Although I do agree that technically they were on duty, it isn't something that singles out officers over others who die similarly.

how is that MISLEADING?

officers face numerous dangers. one of them is from other drivers. considering how much driving they do, and that they do it a lot at night (where DUI's are more common), it's suprising how FEW die from collision. the vests help (disperse force during collisions), as does good defensive driving, etc.

this isn't about "singling out" officers vs. others who die similarly. people who aren't cops are also victims of murder via gun, stabbing, etc. too. does that mean that there is something specious about line of duty gun or stabbing deaths?

i don't grok your point at all. danger from OTHER DRIVERS, is a substantial danger for cops. considering the OVERALL fatality rate per mile driven for everybody is 1/5 what it was at its peak, it's sad that this many officers still die from being struck, or whatever

but a cop who dies when hit by a DUI is JUST AS MUCH LINE OF DUTY as a cop who dies when he is shot by a bank robber.

 

[PALO]

I think there is a misunderstanding here... This is in the WA sub-forum not VA...

Washington's constitution provides greater privacy protection than even the Fourth Amendment.



In WA... no consent, no warrant; no lawful search; there are very few exceptions to this, officers looking for a rat that lives in an apartment does not give exception to search the ones next door.

Get arrested in your car in in WA they can't legally even search a safe in your trunk. One's home affords the same expectation of privacy.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/37/3717.asp

actually, WA state is one of the few states where cops can't even search your car (generally speaking ) INCIDENT TO ARREST

this is relatively new case law.

i like WA case law, generally speaking, because we enjoy greater privacy protections than the 4th (since the 4th doesn't recognize PRIVACY roe v. wade penumbra shenanigans aside), but most of the case law is pretty reasonable. iow, imo it recognizes a better balance between state authoritah and personal autonomy.

granted, until we end the war on drugs, NO state really recognizes enough personal autonomy, but that's another issue

i'm not advocating drug use btw. i just think the war on drugs is more injurious than drug use/abuse is, and what people choose to put in their bodies should not be a criminal matter

 

[sudden valley gunner]

how is that MISLEADING?

officers face numerous dangers. one of them is from other drivers. considering how much driving they do, and that they do it a lot at night (where DUI's are more common), it's suprising how FEW die from collision. the vests help (disperse force during collisions), as does good defensive driving, etc.

this isn't about "singling out" officers vs. others who die similarly. people who aren't cops are also victims of murder via gun, stabbing, etc. too. does that mean that there is something specious about line of duty gun or stabbing deaths?

i don't grok your point at all. danger from OTHER DRIVERS, is a substantial danger for cops. considering the OVERALL fatality rate per mile driven for everybody is 1/5 what it was at its peak, it's sad that this many officers still die from being struck, or whatever

but a cop who dies when hit by a DUI is JUST AS MUCH LINE OF DUTY as a cop who dies when he is shot by a bank robber.

So if I am driving to pick up supplies for a job site and run into a the back of a garbage truck on the way to the hardware store this is a construction related accident? The facts are that many of those deaths had nothing to do with the officer being an officer other than he was in the public more or on the road more. So yes that is a little misleading. By the way I am 8 times more likely to die on the job than a police officer.