ACLU Recuiting in Fremont

[thewise1]

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BlaineG wrote:

marshaul wrote:

And you, Blaine, obviously don't know very much about the ACLU.

I would be thrilled to learn why you think so..... I've been battling their values since I started paying attention to un-American activities. Very rarely will you find them supporting a conservative point of view and always supporting criminals. Sorry....I am not tolerant of liberal values....I have watched them whittle away the values that once upon a time made America great......

You decided the criminal was a criminal before they were convicted (since the ACLU usually participates in their defense, which takes place before their conviction).

 

[BlaineG]

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thewise1 wrote:

BlaineG wrote:

Anyone knows that..........They will, however, take the side of the punk, or if managed to kill him, the side of the family and try to make you part with everything you have or will have. Even if you win, you're going to be broke and ruined after paying for your defense.......You are one seriously misguided liberal.

TWO, you're liberal values and my American ones are just too far apart, we'll just have to disagree on the ACLU's value.....

Essentially where we differ is that you believe the punk shouldn't have any rights - prior to his conviction - because you believe he's a punk.

I believe that we all have rights, and they protect them for all of us. If someone violates the punks rights, then they should be protected as well.

Also, you misspelled libertarian as liberal. And I don't want your 'values' where rights are only afforded those you feel should have them, thanks.

I can't spell worth a hoot, and that's not important at this point. The Punk in "our" little story here is the one you just shot because he tried to carjack you......does that put it in perspective for you? If he survives you stopping him, yes, he has every right in the world to every civil right in the world that can be afforded him......When he sues your azz for shooting him, the ACLU is not going to be your friend......

 

[thewise1]

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BlaineG wrote:

I can't spell worth a hoot, and that's not important at this point. The Punk in "our" little story here is the one you just shot because he tried to carjack you......does that put it in perspective for you? If he survives you stopping him, yes, he has every right in the world to every civil right in the world that can be afforded him......When he sues your azz for shooting him, the ACLU is not going to be your friend......

You're reading what I wrote, but you're not comprehending it.

 

[marshaul]

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I was having that problem with Blaine in another thread. I think it worsens with age.

 

[Bear 45/70]

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marshaul wrote:

And you, Blaine, obviously don't know very much about the ACLU.

Edit: I know you weren't specifically talking to me, but I am as American as you can possibly be. My ancestors were colonials and revolutionaries (and later Rebels), and my values embrace American liberties above all else. Do not think to question their "Americanness" by any criterion.

To bad you've lost sight of what your family fought so hard to achieve. When you have to rely on what your fore fathers did to prove how American you are you are really much of an American.

 

[Bear 45/70]

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marshaul wrote:

I was having that problem with Blaine in another thread. I think it worsens with age.

How many years did you spend defending this country? Until you have as many as Blaine does you probably should watch you mouth.

 

[thewise1]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

marshaul wrote:

And you, Blaine, obviously don't know very much about the ACLU.

Edit: I know you weren't specifically talking to me, but I am as American as you can possibly be. My ancestors were colonials and revolutionaries (and later Rebels), and my values embrace American liberties above all else. Do not think to question their "Americanness" by any criterion.

To bad you've lost sight of what your family fought so hard to achieve. When you have to rely on what your fore fathers did to prove how American you are you are really much of an American.

I'm pretty sure marshaul and I value all of our rights and demand that they all be protected.

After all, someone has to protect us from the BlaineG's of the world that immediately believe we're guilty just because a cop arrested us, but without a trial before a jury of our peers. That's what the ACLU does. I value that, because I fear people like BlaineG. I fear having someone like that on my jury should I be charged with something that I didn't do.

I also value those who defend the 2nd amendment, because I believe it to be equally as important as all the other rights.

 

[thewise1]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

marshaul wrote:

I was having that problem with Blaine in another thread. I think it worsens with age.

How many years did you spend defending this country? Until you have as many as Blaine does you probably should watch you mouth.

This argument is retarded and makes me dislike servicemembers that use it.

You are not excused for your irrationality because you served in the military, and your service is no better than someone who helps to build our country economically. If you were drafted against your will then you have my thanks for your service. If you volunteered, then that was your choice, not mine.

 

[deanf]

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When did the ACLU ever take up the cause of a punk who was lawfully shot in self-defense? I'd sure like to read about it.

 

[Bear 45/70]

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thewise1 wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

marshaul wrote:

I was having that problem with Blaine in another thread. I think it worsens with age.

How many years did you spend defending this country? Until you have as many as Blaine does you probably should watch you mouth.

This argument is retarded and makes me dislike servicemembers that use it.

You are not excused for your irrationality because you served in the military, and your service is no better than someone who helps to build our country economically. If you were drafted against your will then you have my thanks for your service. If you volunteered, then that was your choice, not mine.

Ah, but you and your retarded, punk loud mouths should have some respect for them because they are tolerating your moronic, irrational, lacking in experience, stupid ideas. And served to give you the right to voice them. You by your attitude are one of the major thingswrong with American Society. Screw the very guys who served to give you your rights.Can you say the same?

 

[thewise1]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

thewise1 wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

marshaul wrote:

I was having that problem with Blaine in another thread. I think it worsens with age.

How many years did you spend defending this country? Until you have as many as Blaine does you probably should watch you mouth.

This argument is retarded and makes me dislike servicemembers that use it.

You are not excused for your irrationality because you served in the military, and your service is no better than someone who helps to build our country economically. If you were drafted against your will then you have my thanks for your service. If you volunteered, then that was your choice, not mine.

Ah, but you and your retarded, punk loud mouths should have some respect for them because they are tolerating your moronic, irrational, lacking in experience, stupid ideas. And served to give you the right to voice them. You by your attitude are one of the major thingswrong with American Society. Screw the very guys who served to give you your rights.Can you say the same?

What war did you fight to protect my rights? What enemy - aside from our own government, that you worked for in the military - has abridged my rights in your lifetime or mine?

 

[Bear 45/70]

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thewise1 wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

thewise1 wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

marshaul wrote:

I was having that problem with Blaine in another thread. I think it worsens with age.

How many years did you spend defending this country? Until you have as many as Blaine does you probably should watch you mouth.

This argument is retarded and makes me dislike servicemembers that use it.

You are not excused for your irrationality because you served in the military, and your service is no better than someone who helps to build our country economically. If you were drafted against your will then you have my thanks for your service. If you volunteered, then that was your choice, not mine.

Ah, but you and your retarded, punk loud mouths should have some respect for them because they are tolerating your moronic, irrational, lacking in experience, stupid ideas. And served to give you the right to voice them. You by your attitude are one of the major thingswrong with American Society. Screw the very guys who served to give you your rights.Can you say the same?

What war did you fight to protect my rights? What enemy - aside from our own government, that you worked for in the military - has abridged my rights in your lifetime or mine?

Your own words prove that you are part of the problem with American's attitude towards their military. You of course have never served and would have split to Canada if you had been drafted. You deserve no repect from anyone.

 

[thewise1]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

thewise1 wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

thewise1 wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

marshaul wrote:

I was having that problem with Blaine in another thread. I think it worsens with age.

How many years did you spend defending this country? Until you have as many as Blaine does you probably should watch you mouth.

This argument is retarded and makes me dislike servicemembers that use it.

You are not excused for your irrationality because you served in the military, and your service is no better than someone who helps to build our country economically. If you were drafted against your will then you have my thanks for your service. If you volunteered, then that was your choice, not mine.

Ah, but you and your retarded, punk loud mouths should have some respect for them because they are tolerating your moronic, irrational, lacking in experience, stupid ideas. And served to give you the right to voice them. You by your attitude are one of the major thingswrong with American Society. Screw the very guys who served to give you your rights.Can you say the same?

What war did you fight to protect my rights? What enemy - aside from our own government, that you worked for in the military - has abridged my rights in your lifetime or mine?

Your own words prove that you are part of the problem with American's attitude towards their military. You of course have never served and would have split to Canada if you had been drafted. You deserve no repect from anyone.

:lol: I didn't ask for your respect and I don't care for it. Time and time again you've proved your irrationality (nice evasion of my question, by the way) and you have certain beliefs that are not supported by logic, and when you are asked to question them under the viewpoint of logic, you simply resort to personal attacks, hyperbole, and logical fallacy to deflect the question.

I'll ask again:


What war did you fight to protect my rights? What enemy - aside from our own government, that you worked for in the military - has abridged my rights in your lifetime or mine?

 

[Bear 45/70]

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Wise ass number 10, you need to change your handle as you are not very wise, just arrogant. What makes you think a war is necessary for someone to fight in, to have not protected your rights. 90% of what the military is for is to act as a deterrent to those that would try to take our rights. Unfortunately people like you and the ACLU and Obama wish to destroy this country from within and you just chug along letting it happen.

 

[thewise1]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

Wise ass number 10, you need to change your handle as you are not very wise, just arrogant. What makes you think a war is necessary for someone to fight in, to have not protected your rights. 90% of what the military is for is to act as a deterrent to those that would try to take our rights. Unfortunately people like you and the ACLU and Obama wish to destroy this country from within and you just chug along letting it happen.

More logical fallacy, associating me with Obama.

 

[marshaul]

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

When you have to rely on what your fore fathers did to prove how American you are you are really much of an American.

I wasn't relying on them, I brought them up to point out that you would be simply wrong to call my values "un-American." They are by definition, American.

Perhaps you have some other definition? Whereby, if I disagree with you, I do not qualify?

As for your ludicrous assertion,
Bear 45/70 wrote:

To bad you've lost sight of what your family fought so hard to achieve.

I could say the same to you. My family fought for liberty. Thus, you are suggesting I've lost sight of liberty. I assure you I have a well-developed understanding of the natural and human rights from which the concept of liberty (as the word was used in 18th-century America) derives. If anything, it's you who has lost sight of those values. While we don't know anything about each other's history, our posts demonstrate what I say to be true.

Or maybe you haven't lost sight. Maybe you're one of those Europeans I spoke of earlier:
marshaul wrote:

Libertarianism is the only true American value system. Modern "conservatism" (which isn't conservative at all) is a rather heinous import from tyranny-loving Europeans who couldn't stand the thought of real freedom.

By the way, this debate has nothing to do with military service whatsoever. Bringing it up is a red herring, and using it in debate is an appeal to authority.

 

[sv_libertarian]

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In an attempt to lighten this conversation up, and directed at no person in particuar, nor endorse any opinion... (BTW, my mom has a cat that looks almost just like that one!)

 

[Tawnos]

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BlaineG wrot

IMO, you're allowing the opposition way too much wiggle room......The ACLU does not support conservative values. The rights they do support are all left leaning. I cannot not think of one conservative position they are for. When left leaning lawyers get thru with The Heller deal, we might well wish for pre-Heller conditions.......

First, I have to make an assumption of what "conservative values" are. Are they values which "conserve" the status quo? Are they values that act in a fashion that doesn't stand out? Are they values emphasizing the right of the individual to be safe from his government against rights violations? Or are "conservative values" just words thrown out any time you feel threatened by another's views?

The ACLU is not against individual prayer: http://www.aclu.org/religion/govtfunding/26526res20060824.html

Nor is it against free access to knowledge (about firearms, no less): http://www.aclu-wa.org/detail.cfm?id=557

It also supports the rights of the people against their government (see the multitude of 4th and 5th amendment cases).

These are things I'd consider conservative in the most important way possible: conserving the right of the people to be free in their actions from an oppressive government. Yeah, the orginization missed the boat on the second amendment, but they've done much more good over the years than bad (in my humble opinion). A few years of work from other patriots interested in the preservation of all rights, and the ACLU may even come around on our rights as firearms-holders.

 

[Z06]

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Will the ACLUdefend you if you haveyour4th Amendment rightsviolated with law enforcement while OC'ing?

Did the ACLU do anything todefend the citizens of New Orleans who had their 4th Amendment rights violated?

Does their stance on the 2nd Amendment also determine when your other rights might or might not be violated?

 

[BlaineG]

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Dear Heavens, Liberals, pick a point, focus on it like a laser beam and engage.....we went from ACLU and your gun rights to somehow belittling my 20 years of Military Service....so at this point, you all being scared of me and all, youcan KMA until you want to discuss an issue point by point without personally dragging stuff thru the mud...... This is demeaning and way below me.