After how many drinks is carrying a no-no?

[Schlepnier]

But I do appreciate those with the no guns & alcohol view point. If you know you're the type of person who can't be responsible with alcohol you shouldn't carry. you really shouldn't drink at all.

It has nothing to do with willing responsibility it has to do with impared judgement. i am very responsible when drinking, i am 40 years old and only ever gotten truely drunk 1 time in my entire life while i was in tokyo, and since civilian owned firearms are illegal there aside from hunters and police it was really a non-issue (especially given the extremely low level of crime there).

That being said the main concern is what RUNE pointed out. the level of controlled substance your under will be a matter for consideration should any self defence incident occur ending in legal action.

Remember that you just dont represent yourself, you represent all of us who carry when the anti-gun crowd looks for a scapegoat. which is why i never drink when i am out of the house.

 

[Jeff Hayes]

IANAL, but screw "field sobriety tests".

Look out you may get called rude and combative for taking this stance, BTW I 100% agree with you. I never drink and drive so its not much of an issue for me.

 

[Venya]

I have no prescriptions. Just food for thought.

I've had a beer while out to dinner with my family (and carrying). I'll have a beer at a friend or family member's home while carrying; more than that is rare (carrying or not), and I lock the gun in my safe in the car beyond that point.

I think there are at least three issues with regard to carrying and drinking:
*Legal obligations and liability (already covered ad nauseum)
*Actual impairment of judgment/capability in a self-defense situation
*Perception by public while open carrying

Re: the second point, life is calculated risk. I am willing to risk a beer in public. Sometimes. This is not actually that different from before I carried. Being in public generally makes me pretty uncomfortable anyway (which some of you probably already know).

Re: the third point, open carriers may be "just exercising our rights," but like it or not will get additional scrutiny. Some will look askance at someone having a beer with a pistol on their belt, no matter how irrational that might be in light of the much deadlier set of car keys in most everyone's pocket. It may be that "normalizing" open carry includes normalizing open carry while doing everything that other responsible adults do, but for some that is probably a bridge too far.

I'd be the last one to tell someone else to what extent they ought to exercise any of their rights, but I suspect that in most of the places I frequent, drinking with a gun on my hip would cause more harm to the perception of open carrying than the beer is worth to me (admittedly, not that much). Your mileage (and favored drinking environments) may vary.

As a side point, though, I also carry at home most of the time. Aside from being where I keep all of my favorite people and things, this is where I do 90% of my drinking. I've noticed that since I started to home carry, I drink less here, too. Whatever the legal niceties may be, I find that I want to be just as unimpaired in my own home as I am in the open, for pretty much the same reasons: just in case. I rarely have more than two drinks in the course of an evening now. I don't think my quality of life has decreased.

 

[golddigger14s]

When I OC I normally drive there. With out a weapon I will not have more than one at a restaurant, with a weapon I go down to zero. This is just my personal policy, not based on law/rcw or anything.

 

[Beretta92FSLady]

This is a very interesting and informative thread. For instance, I didn't know that one couldn't carry in a bar up there. I'll keep that in mind when I visit the state. [snippers]

In Washington state, you cannot carrying into a bar, whether you have a permit, or not. The example I offered earlier would be illegal if you were to actually carry into a bar, well, the carrying into a bar part. You can carry into a restaurant, but not into any area that is restricted to 21 and older, that serves alcohol.

 

[SIGGER40]

If I am carrying I do not drink.

 

[davidmcbeth]

A person ought to have ZERO drinks when carrying. Should there be a law stating that?...NO! .

Most states have the limit, who posts a limit, of 0.10 .. the old driving while intoxicated limit. I don't see the harm in having something to drink as long as it does not impair. This will vary per individual and even the 0.10 limit is a maximum limit.

How much is that? Depends on too many factors to say 1 beer/hr.

 

[robert1970]

My personal preference is that alcohol and firearms do not mix in any way, shape, or form.

If I'm carrying, I don't drink.
If I'm drinking, I don't carry.

I totally agree,one shouldnt drink in eny amount,when carring a firearm.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I totally agree,one shouldnt drink in eny amount,when carring a firearm.

Maybe they shouldn't drink when they post either then?

We might abuse our free speech rights.......

 

[amlevin]

Check out the law that took effect Aug 1 in Washington.

State Troopers can now take blood (not them but licensed tech) from DUI suspects even if they refuse.

http://heraldnet.com/article/20120815/NEWS03/708159880#New-Washington-law-for-DUI-blood-draw

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Check out the law that took effect Aug 1 in Washington.

State Troopers can now take blood (not them but licensed tech) from DUI suspects even if they refuse.

http://heraldnet.com/article/20120815/NEWS03/708159880#New-Washington-law-for-DUI-blood-draw

I would not submit to that, that crosses the line for me. I do not have much to worry about because I do not drink and drive. BTW they have to get a warrant before the blood draw.

 

[slapmonkay]

Check out the law that took effect Aug 1 in Washington.

State Troopers can now take blood (not them but licensed tech) from DUI suspects even if they refuse.

http://heraldnet.com/article/20120815/NEWS03/708159880#New-Washington-law-for-DUI-blood-draw

Its not actually that general. From my read of it, there has to be a death related or bodily injury occurred for them to administer the test without your consent. I don't believe a basic DUI meets the requirements in the statue.

RCW 46.20.308 (3)

(3) Except as provided in this section, the test administered shall be of the breath only. If an individual is unconscious or is under arrest for the crime of vehicular homicide as provided in RCW 46.61.520 or vehicular assault as provided in RCW 46.61.522, or if an individual is under arrest for the crime of driving while under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs as provided in RCW 46.61.502, which arrest results from an accident in which there has been serious bodily injury to another person, a breath or blood test may be administered without the consent of the individual so arrested.

 

[twoskinsonemanns]

Are you referring to me, as stating that I would rather be a victim?

Nope. I had to go back and look who said it:

I know I'll be at odds with most when I say that I would rather be a victim, than potentially end up in prison. To me thats hell on earth.

It's funny the reaction to alcohol. I'm not directing this to anyone specifically but here in America, the media pulls the string in our back and we a sing their tune.

How many of you guys that are of the Zero crowd also disarm if you don't get a good nights sleep?
Not getting proper rest has been shown to be as bad or worse than having the legal limit of alcohol in the system.

 

[acmariner99]

I'm going to take some heat for this but ...

It is my personal choice to not carry when alcohol will be flowing in my blood stream. It lowers inhibitions and puts a damper on muscle movement and reaction time - and for me it happens quite quickly. In my opinion, no one can guarantee how they will behave or how they will react when they drink.

People are free to make their own choices in this matter and I don't care if you choose to carry and drink if the law allows it -- however -- if you are at my home and you drink, I reserve the right to ask you to disarm or leave. (You can carry if you don't consume alcohol) It is not that I don't believe you won't be responsible, I don't trust alcohol.

IMO booze and guns simply do not mix. That being said, I do think certain states take that premise too far. New Mexico requires you to conceal if alcohol is present at all - that includes your local walmart and gas station. Arizona's only caveat is that if you carry where alcohol is being consumed you have to conceal, not drink, have a CWP, and there can't be any no gun signage. And many states say you can't carry and be intoxicated - Utah is one.

 

[Jay Jacobs]

*Perception by public while open carrying

Excellent point and one I had intended to mention myself.

 

[MainelyGlock]

I forget exactly what my state law says the limit is when am CC, but if I am out and about I will not drink more than one beer while carrying (either OC or CC). If anything happened, it would look bad in court (no matter what your BAC is) and is something that could be used against you. Nevermind the fact that I have the mental capacity of a four year old when I'm drunk :banana:

 

[Lammo]

My $.02 (or should that be .08)? In my experience* 1) very few people accurately keep track of how much they have had to drink or 2) everyone has been trained to tell the officer they only had 2 beers regardless of how falling down drunk they are. Alcohol affects every person differently and anyone who says they had 2 beers and then blows a 0.16 or 0.17 is lying through their teeth. Personally, I would prefer not to have any alcohol in my system if I have to use my gun in defense of myself or others. It is best to remove that factor from the equation if the use of deadly force is the least bit questionable.

On a side note, back when WSP was adopting the BAC DataMaster in place of the old Breathalyzer, we conducted a number of "wet labs" (always followed by white taxi rides home). I recall on one occasion drinking 14 glasses from pitchers of beer in about 90 minutes. My BAC level never went over 0.10 but there is no way I could have passed any of the standard field sobriety tests or driven myself across the street much less all the way home.

* 25 years as a Deputy Prosecutor, thousands of arrest reports read.

 

[MainelyGlock]

This theory has as much evidence behind it as the theory that you will be shot first if you open carry. Where are the real world examples of being under the influence being a factor in determining whether a shooting was in self-defense or not?

Just saying. if you're on trial for a shooting, and the prosecutor says something along the lines of "Well, Mr. such-and-such was drinking the night he shot Mr something-something in 'self-defense' " in front of a jury, it could sound and look bad. Whether or not you were inebriated might not make a difference depending on how it's said, but once your perception is questioned and looks to have been influenced by alcohol, it's [probably] over.

It is just a theory; no "real world examples" that I can find. It's enough for me to not want to drink while I carry, though, which is good enough for me.

 

[Venya]

Many people in the concealed carry only crowd say exactly the same thing about open carry in any place by anybody - that it causes a bad perception in the general populace and "hurts the 2A image/movement." You know, the John Wayne and Wyatt Earp comments, etc. So exactly where do we draw the line with this idea of perception?

It is a perfectly normal activity for a very large portion of the population of this country to have a drink or two with dinner or at a social gathering. So, if I am enganging in perfectly normal activity that a large portion of the population engages in, then why should I not also keep acting normally while doing so, which means having a firearm on my belt in a holster?

How can we expect the public to think about guns as a normal everyday part of life when we ourselves don't treat guns as a normal everyday part of life?

I'd say it's an ever-moving line, and people are going to draw it in different places. Open carry is in a significantly different place in the public perception in this state now than it was even a few years ago. Maybe next year we'll be cracking beers open at Hale's Ales in the mall (in the restaurant seating, naturally) and laughing about it. [This is the only thing that might draw me to the mall. Their porter is quite good.]

It's a factor to consider and weigh. How much weight? That's up to you. Again, I'm not going to tell anyone what they ought to do, especially since I've already said I don't like drinking in public (with or without a weapon).

(For added fun, my in-laws have been predicting my imminent collapse into alcoholism for about 15 years now. I make it a point to always have a beer when they visit, though it might be the first one that week.)

 

[sudden valley gunner]

I'd say it's an ever-moving line, and people are going to draw it in different places. Open carry is in a significantly different place in the public perception in this state now than it was even a few years ago. Maybe next year we'll be cracking beers open at Hale's Ales in the mall (in the restaurant seating, naturally) and laughing about it. [This is the only thing that might draw me to the mall. Their porter is quite good.]

It's a factor to consider and weigh. How much weight? That's up to you. Again, I'm not going to tell anyone what they ought to do, especially since I've already said I don't like drinking in public (with or without a weapon).

(For added fun, my in-laws have been predicting my imminent collapse into alcoholism for about 15 years now. I make it a point to always have a beer when they visit, though it might be the first one that week.)

I crack beers open here in hippie B'ham at our fine micro places no problems.