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Americans prepares for civilization's collapse | Reuters. Sub-culture? Hah!

Jack House

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Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
2,611
Location
I80, USA
After two years most/all of the unprepared will have died off, and the survivors will have adapted to the new conditions.

Don't need enough food for the rest of your life, just enough to get through the worst of the upheaval until your local community returns to the agrarian roots that built this country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"In her home" is the key part of that. Reintegrating with society isn't really in the home. But I digress, I was being an ass and picking on the language used to convey an idea. I don't think she actually plans on staying boarded up in her house. But rather, from the quote, it seems as though she'll use a co,bination of hunting/farming and emergency rations to survive. At least, I hope that is what she meant. :p
 
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
Eschew G00gle. H/T John R. Lott, Jr., author of More Guns, Less Crime

Forget to pay your Google bill?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin.../24/gIQArgJHOQ_story.html?wpisrc=al_comboNE_b
Google said Tuesday it will require users to allow the company to follow their activities across e-mail, search, YouTube and other services, a radical shift in strategy that is expected to invite greater scrutiny of its privacy and competitive practices.
https://plus.google.com/112336147904981294875/posts/ZGm85P3kPsk
You agreed to let Google know about your contacts and mails when you started using Gmail.
You agreed to let Google know about your photos when you started using Picasa.
You agreed to let Google know where you are when you started using Latitude.
You agreed to let Google know what people you interact with and what you are interested in when you started using Google+.
You agreed to let Google store your documents for you when you started using Docs.
H/T John R. Lott, Jr., author of More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws.
 

Metalhead47

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Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
2,800
Location
South Whidbey, Washington, USA

gunns

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
270
Location
Minnesota
I wasn't going to chime in but after reading how someone can think that it can't happen here made me rethink. The problem as I see as far as SHTF is that the current generations of U.S. Citizens are nothing like my parents were or my grandparents. They had respect for all people and knew how to live off the land even in the city. When they were growing up, 90 percent of all people knew how to grow food and most city people had gardens growing fresh produce. So 90% of the population made 100% of the food in some way. Even big city people had flower pots in their windows growing tomatoes or something.

Today we see very little private gardens. Today we have 1% of the people growing 100% of the food for all. All food delivery is Just In Time to the markets. Some state that trucks will still deliver food in an disaster, but what if those truckers and I know allot of them, worry that if they are on the road whose going to protect my family and decide to stay home? Even 1 out of 3 stay home, shelves become bare. Trains do not delivery the food, they deliver mostly coal and large items (my brother in law is an engineer on the RR).

I think anyone who thinks if our markets crash or some other national disaster happens we will all sit around nice and peaceful like the Japanese did is delusional at best. Case in point, Katrina.
 

Daylen

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Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
I wasn't going to chime in but after reading how someone can think that it can't happen here made me rethink. The problem as I see as far as SHTF is that the current generations of U.S. Citizens are nothing like my parents were or my grandparents. They had respect for all people and knew how to live off the land even in the city. When they were growing up, 90 percent of all people knew how to grow food and most city people had gardens growing fresh produce. So 90% of the population made 100% of the food in some way. Even big city people had flower pots in their windows growing tomatoes or something.

Today we see very little private gardens. Today we have 1% of the people growing 100% of the food for all. All food delivery is Just In Time to the markets. Some state that trucks will still deliver food in an disaster, but what if those truckers and I know allot of them, worry that if they are on the road whose going to protect my family and decide to stay home? Even 1 out of 3 stay home, shelves become bare. Trains do not delivery the food, they deliver mostly coal and large items (my brother in law is an engineer on the RR).

I think anyone who thinks if our markets crash or some other national disaster happens we will all sit around nice and peaceful like the Japanese did is delusional at best. Case in point, Katrina.

Stay home for 2 years and likely starve themselves because they are no longer earning an income? In Katrina it was fairly peaceful. Shotguns and chainsaws came out to resore order and after a short time trucks were delivering again. Power was only out for a few weeks. Perhaps you were refering to New Orleans and the disaster there, they lost the true disaster, they allowed a government to exist that could control them and disarm and displace them. It was over before it began, if such a government exists it doesn't matter how prepared you are, police and invaders(National Guard from other states) were disarming people that didn't shoot first (LACs), and shooting people for no good reason (try searching for "new orleans police katrina murders" if you want more info there). In MS and non-NO parts of LA where people made sure there were no catastrophic systemic problems in government or society things went fairly well; for immediate help aviation guard units were air lifting water and MREs to rural areas and someone brought them to urban areas. After the first two weeks I don't think I heard of ANYONE eating MREs. Most of the problem with getting food in was not fuel, but trees, debris and other obstructions to traffic.
 

Outdoorsman1

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2011
Messages
1,248
Location
Silver Lake WI
Late Feb. and March is the best time to start seeds indoors....

Intended to mean much more than it says...

Nuff said...

Outdoorsman1
 

sst0185

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2010
Messages
120
Location
Va Beach
This is happening at a very fast pace folks! The USA and Europe have just verified they will sanction Iranian oil and other exports, all because they refuse to stop their nuclear facilities??!! Our administration is bullies, and does whatever Israel wants! Iran has let UN inspectors inside their nuclear facilities, and everytime it's the same thing!, they are not enriching plutonium for nuclear weapons! Yet we kiss israels ass, and they have numerous nuclear weapons, but refuse to let anyone inspect them!!! Iran hasnt even threatened another country in years and years, but we are going to destroy their economy because our socialist elite administration! When Iran shuts the strait of Hormuz, all he'll will break lose! Fuel will be too expensive to buy, not to mention we will enter ww3. Russia and china already said they will back Iran, which means things ate gonna get bad!

I keep at least a thousand rounds of ammo in every caliber I have, if we don't use it, like you've said, it will be great to barter with! I have enough mags that I can reload every weapon at least 5 times without reloading mags, and enough firearms to give 1 to every person in my family if need be! It's better to be prepared, than to be without anything if something was to go down!


How's that shia or sharia law thing working out for you in Kentucky?:cool:
 

georg jetson

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Stay home for 2 years and likely starve themselves because they are no longer earning an income? In Katrina it was fairly peaceful. Shotguns and chainsaws came out to resore order and after a short time trucks were delivering again. Power was only out for a few weeks. Perhaps you were refering to New Orleans and the disaster there, they lost the true disaster, they allowed a government to exist that could control them and disarm and displace them. It was over before it began, if such a government exists it doesn't matter how prepared you are, police and invaders(National Guard from other states) were disarming people that didn't shoot first (LACs), and shooting people for no good reason (try searching for "new orleans police katrina murders" if you want more info there). In MS and non-NO parts of LA where people made sure there were no catastrophic systemic problems in government or society things went fairly well; for immediate help aviation guard units were air lifting water and MREs to rural areas and someone brought them to urban areas. After the first two weeks I don't think I heard of ANYONE eating MREs. Most of the problem with getting food in was not fuel, but trees, debris and other obstructions to traffic.

As far as Katrina, most people evacuated from the area south of Lake Pontchartrain. It was at least 2 to 3 weeks(cant remember exactly) before people were allowed back into areas south of the Lake. Most of the inhabitants north of the lake evacuated as well. I didn't.

Here's what I remember...

Immediately after the storm it took us (about 8 members of my family) 3 days to cut our way out of the 1/2 mile driveway with chainsaws. Gaining access to a the hwy did little because of the tree/powerline debris. It took over a week of citizens and storm chasers(cleanup crews from other states) working to reach my home town of Slidell... which was a ghost town. Most areas were without power on the north shore for 2 weeks to a month. Regaining power on the south shore took quite a bit longer consider the flooding damage of many transmission substations and lines.

Because of the number of people evacuated, there was no one to open a store much less stock it. It took a 200 mile drive for us just to get gasoline. Fortunately, we had brought a 55 gallon drum with us. We filled the rest of the pick-up with beer. Several of the affected parishes had outlawed alcohol sales so... one has to prepare properly. ;)

If I remember correctly, the National Guard had depots deployed pretty quickly... at least on the north shore. They were handing out ice(to keep beer cold), MREs, and other necessities by the end of the first week. For most of us that stayed, we took the MREs just in case. Once the power goes out, we began eating the food out of the refrigerators and deep freezers. We ate much better than usual. It took me months to lose the weight. I still have the MREs... just in case.

During all of this I realized a few things...
1) It was good that some of my family have homes far enough outside the populated areas. It is a place easy to defend
2) We REALLY depend on AC down here!!
3) Bridge failure caused major delays in helping those on the south shore... a bad place to be in ANY catastrophe.
4) Katrina was somewhat localized and yet recovery took months/years. Had the catastrophe been much more wide spread, there would be no help... no 200 mile drive for gas and beer... and no power for MUCH longer.
5) It was good that I had plenty of weapons and ammo... no place to get it regardless of how much money you had.
6) Cash is good.
7) Good neighbors are good.

The ONE situation where I thought I was in danger was with a New Orleans cop.

I was spending days with my family in the rural part of the parish and then sleeping at my home in Slidell to deter looters. The looters never came. However, one of my neighbors was kin, by marriage, to a NO cop. I stopped in front of their home, noticing people there for the first time since the storm. I was greeted by this very arrogant, half-dressed, loud mouthed, rude, fat, individual with a badge on a chain around his neck. He told me who he was and then proceeded to tell me that Louisiana was under martial law. He began to make statements to the effect that he could "commandeer" my truck and there wasn't a thing I could do about it... I diplomatically excused myself, but I'll say this. I felt VERY threatened. Keep in mind that this incident did not happen in Orleans Parish.

The most important thing here is #4 above. Whatever "thing" happens, it's affect on the individual will be greater the larger the affected area. This relationship is probably NOT linear.
 

gunns

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
270
Location
Minnesota
As far as Katrina, most people evacuated from the area south of Lake Pontchartrain. It was at least 2 to 3 weeks(cant remember exactly) before people were allowed back into areas south of the Lake. Most of the inhabitants north of the lake evacuated as well. I didn't.

Here's what I remember...

Immediately after the storm it took us (about 8 members of my family) 3 days to cut our way out of the 1/2 mile driveway with chainsaws. Gaining access to a the hwy did little because of the tree/powerline debris. It took over a week of citizens and storm chasers(cleanup crews from other states) working to reach my home town of Slidell... which was a ghost town. Most areas were without power on the north shore for 2 weeks to a month. Regaining power on the south shore took quite a bit longer consider the flooding damage of many transmission substations and lines.

Because of the number of people evacuated, there was no one to open a store much less stock it. It took a 200 mile drive for us just to get gasoline. Fortunately, we had brought a 55 gallon drum with us. We filled the rest of the pick-up with beer. Several of the affected parishes had outlawed alcohol sales so... one has to prepare properly. ;)

If I remember correctly, the National Guard had depots deployed pretty quickly... at least on the north shore. They were handing out ice(to keep beer cold), MREs, and other necessities by the end of the first week. For most of us that stayed, we took the MREs just in case. Once the power goes out, we began eating the food out of the refrigerators and deep freezers. We ate much better than usual. It took me months to lose the weight. I still have the MREs... just in case.

During all of this I realized a few things...
1) It was good that some of my family have homes far enough outside the populated areas. It is a place easy to defend
2) We REALLY depend on AC down here!!
3) Bridge failure caused major delays in helping those on the south shore... a bad place to be in ANY catastrophe.
4) Katrina was somewhat localized and yet recovery took months/years. Had the catastrophe been much more wide spread, there would be no help... no 200 mile drive for gas and beer... and no power for MUCH longer.
5) It was good that I had plenty of weapons and ammo... no place to get it regardless of how much money you had.
6) Cash is good.
7) Good neighbors are good.

The ONE situation where I thought I was in danger was with a New Orleans cop.

I was spending days with my family in the rural part of the parish and then sleeping at my home in Slidell to deter looters. The looters never came. However, one of my neighbors was kin, by marriage, to a NO cop. I stopped in front of their home, noticing people there for the first time since the storm. I was greeted by this very arrogant, half-dressed, loud mouthed, rude, fat, individual with a badge on a chain around his neck. He told me who he was and then proceeded to tell me that Louisiana was under martial law. He began to make statements to the effect that he could "commandeer" my truck and there wasn't a thing I could do about it... I diplomatically excused myself, but I'll say this. I felt VERY threatened. Keep in mind that this incident did not happen in Orleans Parish.

The most important thing here is #4 above. Whatever "thing" happens, it's affect on the individual will be greater the larger the affected area. This relationship is probably NOT linear.

Excellent post.
 

Daylen

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
A region encompassing MS from above H'burg and south, plus parishes in LA out pas New Orleans is not what I'd consider localized, but I guess ymmv. There was gas closer than 200 miles (a few stations had gas and generators to keep things running), although the gas line for those sources seemed to be 50 miles long... My main regrets were not bringing enough beer and rum on the boat and letting my dad convince me to not grab the "protected" fish that were gasping for air, a few days of eating paddlefish and sturgeon roe would have been REALLY nice. As it was we settled for the legal fish and ate like gluttons. The most interesting thing was once the local walmart was back in business after about a month (it had been flooded bad) they couldn't stock enough red beans and rice on the shelves and had to put out a few huge bins to meet demand from all the New Orleans evacuees.
 

georg jetson

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Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
A region encompassing MS from above H'burg and south, plus parishes in LA out pas New Orleans is not what I'd consider localized, but I guess ymmv.

It is relative. The larger the disaster, the more resources are needed but less are available. Also, if a Katrina sized disaster happened more often, availability of resources would suffer.

There was gas closer than 200 miles (a few stations had gas and generators to keep things running), although the gas line for those sources seemed to be 50 miles long...

Now you tell me. We had to go all the way to Natchez La.

My main regrets were not bringing enough beer and rum on the boat and letting my dad convince me to not grab the "protected" fish that were gasping for air, a few days of eating paddlefish and sturgeon roe would have been REALLY nice. As it was we settled for the legal fish and ate like gluttons. The most interesting thing was once the local walmart was back in business after about a month (it had been flooded bad) they couldn't stock enough red beans and rice on the shelves and had to put out a few huge bins to meet demand from all the New Orleans evacuees.

We should exchange numbers. Next time I'll handle the beer and you take care of the fuel.

BTW - I always wondered why the fish died in the river adjacent to the house I was staying in... What happened to the oxygen in the water?
 

Daylen

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Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
Location
America
It is relative. The larger the disaster, the more resources are needed but less are available. Also, if a Katrina sized disaster happened more often, availability of resources would suffer.



Now you tell me. We had to go all the way to Natchez La.



We should exchange numbers. Next time I'll handle the beer and you take care of the fuel.

BTW - I always wondered why the fish died in the river adjacent to the house I was staying in... What happened to the oxygen in the water?

Diamond head had a gas station with fuel. Gulfport had one or two. Stennis had one, but getting on was still difficult. We did so by boat at first and were able to fill up once or twice. A few towns north of I10 had fuel and Hattiesburg had fuel deliveries and power before too long like a week or two.
The fish died because of a few things, first was the salt water intrusion next was the bacterial bloom that made the wonderful brown permanent stains on everything that touched the water. Lovely cocktail: mud, bacteria and oil from dead things. It sure made the next crab season a success.

When the hurricane seasons start building again I plan to have a propane generator and large tank to hold enough propane for a month. And if I have to stay on a large boat I'll have a chain saw on the boat so I don't get stranded in a swam away from the farm where I had enough home brew wine to last years (felt like Bert from tremors 3 after he blew up his house). Nothing worse than being stranded with nothing to do and no booze.

You should make the next south MS meetup.
 

georg jetson

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Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
2,416
Location
Slidell, Louisiana
Diamond head had a gas station with fuel. Gulfport had one or two. Stennis had one, but getting on was still difficult. We did so by boat at first and were able to fill up once or twice. A few towns north of I10 had fuel and Hattiesburg had fuel deliveries and power before too long like a week or two.
The fish died because of a few things, first was the salt water intrusion next was the bacterial bloom that made the wonderful brown permanent stains on everything that touched the water. Lovely cocktail: mud, bacteria and oil from dead things. It sure made the next crab season a success.

When the hurricane seasons start building again I plan to have a propane generator and large tank to hold enough propane for a month. And if I have to stay on a large boat I'll have a chain saw on the boat so I don't get stranded in a swam away from the farm where I had enough home brew wine to last years (felt like Bert from tremors 3 after he blew up his house). Nothing worse than being stranded with nothing to do and no booze.

You should make the next south MS meetup.

Nothing worse for sure LOL!!

I will definitely try. Herohog is organizing a North La. meetup in April for LOCAL. I'm hoping to make the 2 1/2 hour trip to give him some support.
 

Gil223

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Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
The end of the Fiat money would simply bring back hard currency or Nazi/Weinmar style new currency fixes. Even in those cases, yea it sucked, but farmers still did their thing like many others.

Historically, all paper currency (currency other than precious metals such as gold and silver, and gemstones - diamonds, sapphires, rubies, etc) has essentially been "fiat currency". Rulers have said, "This is our unit of exchange", and other rulers have said, "Okay, that may work for us. What is the exchange rate?" and negotiations began.

Initially the American currency was colonial script, and the issuance of that currency was equal to the goods and services of the prevailing economy. The 'dollar' was approved by Congress in a largely symbolic resolution on August 8, 1785.

In 1834 the increase in value of gold over silver prompted the creation of a new U.S. dollar that was backed by 1.50 g (23.22 grains) of gold. However, the previous dollar had been represented by 1.60 g (24.75 grains) of gold. The result of this revaluation, which was the first-ever devaluation of the U.S. dollar, was that the value in gold of the dollar was reduced by 6%. Moreover, for a time, both gold and silver coins were useful in commerce. With the enactment of the National Banking Act of 1863, the switch to the more-or-less globally accepted "gold Standard", was provoked by the discovery of large silver deposits in the western United States. The minting of gold coins was reduced, silver became the primary ingredient in our coinage, and the paper 'dollar' became the sole currency of the United States of America, remaining so today.

In March of 1900, the "Gold Standard Act" was passed, establishing that "...the dollar consisting of twenty-five and eight-tenths grains (1.67 g) of gold nine-tenths fine, as established by section thirty-five hundred and eleven of the Revised Statutes of the United States, shall be the standard unit of value, and all forms of money issued or coined by the United States shall be maintained at a parity of value with this standard...". Anyway, without belaboring the point, having decimated our gold reserves, in the interstices we switched to the "silver standard", and now finally to the "bank note", which has no physical backing to support it's face value, but is still accepted for value by international agreement. Bottom line: "Currency" is only that which we agree to call it. For example, the Micronesian island of Yap uses carved stones as their unit of exchange, and it is agreed upon and accepted locally (and perhaps regionally) for goods and services (I have no idea how - or IF - it is accepted in international trade).

The Zimbabwe dollar was abandoned in early 2009, a direct result of runaway inflation (increasing by almost 2,000% daily), and the absurd denominations that included billion dollar notes (and what was a throw back to the Weimar Republic and Germany in the 1920's), where wheelbarrows of money that was essentially worthless were used to pay for basic items such as bread and milk. At that time, Zimbabwe saved its economy by converting to the U.S. dollar (an arguably foolish decision on the part of "President for Life" Robert Mugabe).

Anyway, that's the deal (and probably more information than anybody wanted) on "fiat currencies" - acceptable 'currency' ain't nothin' but what we say it is. Most of the world's currency today is little more than "promissory notes"... a negotiable instrument agreed upon by two or more parties. Pax...
 
Last edited:

Daylen

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Aug 29, 2010
Messages
2,223
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America
Gil223
You missed the reintroduction of Fiat money during the 1860s, which is ultimately spelled the end of the gold backing of the dollar.
 

Gil223

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Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
Gil223
You missed the reintroduction of Fiat money during the 1860s, which is ultimately spelled the end of the gold backing of the dollar.

I didn't really miss it (in re: National Banking Act of 1863)... it was one of several intermediate steps (and their attendant details and explanations), that I either glossed over, or skipped over completely for brevity's sake! The post wasn't meant to be The Unabriged History of World Currencies - just kinda "This is how fiat currency comes into existence". The paper denomination itself has no intrinsic value other than for the acquisition of those goods and services for which others will accept it, and is worth about as much as Monopoly money. ;) Pax...
 

Gil223

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Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
1,392
Location
Weber County Utah
it doesn't matter how prepared you are, police and invaders(National Guard from other states) were disarming people that didn't shoot first (LACs), and shooting people for no good reason (try searching for "new orleans police katrina murders" if you want more info there).QUOTE]

On a positive note, Staff Sergeant (SSG) Joshua L. May of the Utah National Guard, along with the other men in his military intelligence unit, refused to participate in any gun confiscation while deployed to assist during Hurricane Katrina in 2005. (The "Oath of Enlistment" specifies "lawful orders", and the Constitution is the law.) If you would like more details about this unusual turn of events visit:
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/07...ho-refused-to-confiscate-guns-during-katrina/

Just sayin'

Pax...
 
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