Americans prepares for civilization's collapse | Reuters. Sub-culture? Hah!

[Daylen]

it doesn't matter how prepared you are, police and invaders(National Guard from other states) were disarming people that didn't shoot first (LACs), and shooting people for no good reason (try searching for "new orleans police katrina murders" if you want more info there).QUOTE]

On a positive note, Staff Sergeant (SSG) Joshua L. May of the Utah National Guard, along with the other men in his military intelligence unit, refused to participate in any gun confiscation while deployed to assist during Hurricane Katrina in 2005. (The "Oath of Enlistment" specifies "lawful orders", and the Constitution is the law.) If you would like more details about this unusual turn of events visit:
http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2011/07...ho-refused-to-confiscate-guns-during-katrina/

Just sayin'

Pax...

Winning the battle and loosing the war A few good people refusing to break the law seems to not be good enough. I suppose its better than if he participated even though the end result still happened. Maybe he can be a good influence over more guard members and next time the confiscation can be stopped.

 

[Gil223]

Maybe he can be a good influence over more guard members and next time the confiscation can be stopped.

And, there you have it! The hope that the actions of a few will become contagious, and provide others with the courage to take the same position (an army begins with the first recruit). Unfortunately, there are those who blindly follow the direction of the "authorities" arbitrarily placed above them, because they have forgotten (or never realized) that the "lawful orders" clause of their oath, indemnifies them from any punishment resulting from their refusal to violate the Constitution. Pax...

 

[Dreamer]

Winning the battle and loosing the war A few good people refusing to break the law seems to not be good enough. I suppose its better than if he participated even though the end result still happened. Maybe he can be a good influence over more guard members and next time the confiscation can be stopped.

Actually, the vast majority of the forceable gun confiscations in NOLA after Katrina were NOT done by sworn LEOs or military--most were spearheaded by "private security contractors" from companies like Blackwater and ArmorGroup International (From the UK!).

Mercs are not bound by any "oaths" other than their contractual obligations.

http://motherjones.com/environment/2009/08/secret-history-hurricane-katrina


WTFU, dude...

 

[cloudcroft]

I was here on Galveston Island during and after Hurricane Ike (9-13-08) -- destruction much like Katrina in New Orleans as almost all the island was under water (part of the Gulf of Mexico for a while). Of the people that stayed in my huge condo/apartment complex (9 of us) only Yours Truly was armed. The others were victims waiting to happen (prey for criminals, looters, etc.). No cell phone signals (couldn't call for help), no water (so no fire trucks could use any of the hydrants) if there was a fire, no way for trucks to GET to a fire anyway due to tons (literally) of destruction debris in the streets (and lots of nails and sharp metal to cut tires), police spread too thin and too busy with more important things elsewhere on the island and no electrical power -- you were on your own. But looters were out and about. Very war-zone like the morning after the storm and the Gulf waters receded.

But while I am not at all predicting any American Apocalypse -- caused by whatever reasons, natural or man-made -- anytime soon (or ever frankly, considering how apathetic most Americans are), I still was aware of one gun missing (a short to mid-range semi-auto carbine/rifle to repel boarders) from my tiny "arsenal" and am taking action presently to fix that (I've already ordered the ammo).

And with another hurricane season (my last one to get through) coming up starting June 1st, who knows what to expect with the weather?

Be prepared: Plenty of Emergency Supplies and the "tools" needed to stay in possession of them. No matter WHERE you live.

 

[KYGlockster]

For what? famine because of nationalized farms and theft of food by the government? Wrong disaster, you won't survive that one. The proper disaster to be ready for is the nationalization of private enterprise, and surviving is not winning(because famine and death will follow thus winning the battle to loose the war), stopping the nationalization is winning, or having an escape plan(for cowards).

If you say you have got to prepare for one specific event then that is insane. I prepare for anything that might happen, whether it be the collapse of the american economy, government takeover, earthquake, tornado, whatever. Any of these events have the potential to cause major problems in many different areas of life. It could be not being able to get to the grocery store to buy food, it could be having no electricity for days or weeks, government trying to disarm you, anything! If you have a problem that lasts more than a day or two, you are going to have people that will do whatever it takes to survive, which could include trying to take everything that I have stored to do the same. This is why I hoard ammunition and firearms and components thereof. I will not die due to famine because I can live off of the land just as the men before us did for thousands of years, so when my food supply runs out, I have nature to turn to.
Nationalization of private enterprise is already happening, and its doing so at an alarming pace. Is anyone stepping up to stop this?, of course not! Once people have had enough, then they will go to the streets fighting to take back what is rightfully ours, and we will do so when the time comes, or at least I would fight to regain control of this nation, and I hope there are millions just like me! I will survive because I can, the only thing that will kill me is if a bullet or shrapnel get me when fighting with a tyrant government, or some gang out to take what is mine. Im not even worried about nationalized farms or theft of food by government, because I would have plenty of notice that these events are happening. To say someone shouldnt prepare is repugnant.

 

[OC for ME]

The vast majority of folks will not 'do whatever it takes to survive' if their actions will violate the law. Most folks may get angry at specific things/situations, but not violate the law. Katrina, Andrew, Hugo (the one I went through), Joplin Missouri. Folks waited in line, helped each other out, looked out for each other, followed the law.

In other words, your average American is a LAC who will be patient, suffer government intrusions, public and private incompetency, hardships and all the while remain optimistic. Lending to government to fix the past wrongs and expect a different response next time. This is what we do.

The media magnifies the isolated instances of the 'whatever it takes crowd', this may leave the impression with some folks that most folks will go feral after just a few days....this is what the media does.

We are called the nation of inventors. And we are. We could still claim that title and wear its loftiest honors if we had stopped with the first thing we ever invented, which was human liberty. - Mark Twain - Foreign Critics speech, 1890

But we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and we glorious Americans will occasionally astonish the God that created us when we get a fair start. - Mark Twain - "The Bolters in Convention," Territorial Enterprise, 12/30/1863

 

[Daylen]

Actually, the vast majority of the forceable gun confiscations in NOLA after Katrina were NOT done by sworn LEOs or military--most were spearheaded by "private security contractors" from companies like Blackwater and ArmorGroup International (From the UK!).

Mercs are not bound by any "oaths" other than their contractual obligations.

http://motherjones.com/environment/2009/08/secret-history-hurricane-katrina


WTFU, dude...

Mother Jones is spewing BS. I'd go into more detail, but anyone who would believe that bs and not research it on their own won't be convinced by anything I post. If you want to live in a fantasy world go for it.

 

[Daylen]

If you say you have got to prepare for one specific event then that is insane. I prepare for anything that might happen, whether it be the collapse of the american economy, government takeover, earthquake, tornado, whatever. Any of these events have the potential to cause major problems in many different areas of life. It could be not being able to get to the grocery store to buy food, it could be having no electricity for days or weeks, government trying to disarm you, anything! If you have a problem that lasts more than a day or two, you are going to have people that will do whatever it takes to survive, which could include trying to take everything that I have stored to do the same. This is why I hoard ammunition and firearms and components thereof. I will not die due to famine because I can live off of the land just as the men before us did for thousands of years, so when my food supply runs out, I have nature to turn to.
Nationalization of private enterprise is already happening, and its doing so at an alarming pace. Is anyone stepping up to stop this?, of course not! Once people have had enough, then they will go to the streets fighting to take back what is rightfully ours, and we will do so when the time comes, or at least I would fight to regain control of this nation, and I hope there are millions just like me! I will survive because I can, the only thing that will kill me is if a bullet or shrapnel get me when fighting with a tyrant government, or some gang out to take what is mine. Im not even worried about nationalized farms or theft of food by government, because I would have plenty of notice that these events are happening. To say someone shouldnt prepare is repugnant.

If it comes to nationalized farms, and intentional famine I hope you decide to escape, history has shown those who stay die. What will you do when an army comes to take your things? You likely won't be able to deceive them, simply being properly nourished is evidence that you have something. You won't live off the land if there is not sufficient farm derived food. Wild things will be depleted very quickly; that is the lesson of Africa, nature is destroyed first in famine. Would you turn to cannibalism and hope to not get caught? My point is not to despair and not prepare, it is just to have the right preparations, including mental ones. All the canned food and bullets in the world can't keep you alive in a biological attack, nor can they keep a 2000lb bomb from destroying your plans. No amount of fuel and generators will keep hungry people from eating you or reporting you as a horder to those who caused the famine. Unless you have very considerable resources its not possible to be ready for ANY disaster, like in any successful enterprise risk mitigation is an art and resources need to be allocated properly. To do this one must have a reasonable idea of what is likely to happen and use that to determine where to spend resources.

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

If it comes to nationalized farms, and intentional famine I hope you decide to escape, history has shown those who stay die. What will you do when an army comes to take your things? You likely won't be able to deceive them, simply being properly nourished is evidence that you have something. You won't live off the land if there is not sufficient farm derived food. Wild things will be depleted very quickly; that is the lesson of Africa, nature is destroyed first in famine. Would you turn to cannibalism and hope to not get caught? My point is not to despair and not prepare, it is just to have the right preparations, including mental ones. All the canned food and bullets in the world can't keep you alive in a biological attack, nor can they keep a 2000lb bomb from destroying your plans. No amount of fuel and generators will keep hungry people from eating you or reporting you as a horder to those who caused the famine. Unless you have very considerable resources its not possible to be ready for ANY disaster, like in any successful enterprise risk mitigation is an art and resources need to be allocated properly. To do this one must have a reasonable idea of what is likely to happen and use that to determine where to spend resources.

BS. Not 100%, but mostly. Yes, nature would deplete rapidly, but nature would also replenish. Provided people are giving it time, which in some areas may not be feasible.

No, ammo and canned food won't save you from a bomb or bio weapons, but it will keep you alive in OTHER disaster scenarios.

To say that without "considerable resources its not possible to be ready for ANY disaster" is beyond stupid. One may not be prepared for ALL disasters, one may not be prepared long, or one may not be prepared well, but are we talking about surviving through a disaster scenario, or prepping for an world that will never get back on it's feet? (Which I seriously doubt. It may take time, but will happen.)

Prepare for what you can, and pray it's never necessary.

 

[Daylen]

BS. Not 100%, but mostly. Yes, nature would deplete rapidly, but nature would also replenish. Provided people are giving it time, which in some areas may not be feasible.

No, ammo and canned food won't save you from a bomb or bio weapons, but it will keep you alive in OTHER disaster scenarios.

To say that without "considerable resources its not possible to be ready for ANY disaster" is beyond stupid. One may not be prepared for ALL disasters, one may not be prepared long, or one may not be prepared well, but are we talking about surviving through a disaster scenario, or prepping for an world that will never get back on it's feet? (Which I seriously doubt. It may take time, but will happen.)

Prepare for what you can, and pray it's never necessary.

Nature doesn't get replenished during a famine. Look at Africa and the Ukraine, people knew how to live off the land , but when famine lasts too long the area gets depleted. Heck that even happened where I grew up, not from famine just people overhunting.

 

[PistolPackingMomma]

Nature doesn't get replenished during a famine. Look at Africa and the Ukraine, people knew how to live off the land , but when famine lasts too long the area gets depleted. Heck that even happened where I grew up, not from famine just people overhunting.

Which is why I said...

Provided people are giving it time, which in some areas may not be feasible.

 

[since9]

Nature doesn't get replenished during a famine. Look at Africa and the Ukraine, people knew how to live off the land , but when famine lasts too long the area gets depleted. Heck that even happened where I grew up, not from famine just people overhunting.

Agricultural expertise in no way overrides governmental arrogance and abuse. If the resources aren't there, the resources aren't there, regardless of how many times the people have been promised otherwised.

Just look at Obama - he's continually claimed we can afford his unbelievable government excesses, yet even after he threw us off the financial cliff and we've landing in the deep pools beyond, he keeps shoving our head under water as if to silence us while screaming, "Whoo-hoo!!! Wasn't that great?!!!"

No, Mr. Whoever. Not while our country slides trillions of dollars deeper into dept while your plans double the payback rate from 30 years to 70 years.

Nice saddle for our kids, though. Would you please cough up a bit and bridle for them now, so they won't through a fit when they're eighteen?

Barack: You're no moron. U.S. Americans: You are, first for voting for this turd, then for supporting him throughout, and finally, for supporting him for the finishing blow to our country. Moron? That's too light a term. How about imbecile?

Grow UP! People. Or dig your own grave. I no longer freaking care. I and millions of others have tried to warn you, but you didn't listen. You got what you voted for. angh... Good luck with that. In the meantime, I'm considering moving abroad, where I no longer have to put up with whatever stupidity put Obama in office.

 

[Metalhead47]

If it comes to nationalized farms, and intentional famine I hope you decide to escape, history has shown those who stay die.

And where would you suggest one go? If things got that bad in America,​ I doubt anywhere else would be much better off.

 

[Daylen]

And where would you suggest one go? If things got that bad in America,​ I doubt anywhere else would be much better off.

I haven't figured that one out completely. The assumption that America will be better in terms of freedom and prosperity is not necessarily a good assumption. If current trends continue, former soviet satellite nations would be a good place. Many have fair economic freedom, gun ownership and some even have shall issue concealed carry permits.

If your assumption is true... Then there is not a good answer, only potentially acceptable ones. A top one on my list is mining in Antarctica. Or perhaps procuring a large fishing vessel and living in international waters, and only venturing into national waters for short business dealings.

 

[Metalhead47]

I haven't figured that one out completely. The assumption that America will be better in terms of freedom and prosperity is not necessarily a good assumption. If current trends continue, former soviet satellite nations would be a good place. Many have fair economic freedom, gun ownership and some even have shall issue concealed carry permits.

If your assumption is true... Then there is not a good answer, only potentially acceptable ones. A top one on my list is mining in Antarctica. Or perhaps procuring a large fishing vessel and living in international waters, and only venturing into national waters for short business dealings.

Lol. Mining in the most inhospitable place on this planet (where any kind of mining is currently illegal and likely to stay that way) or eking out economic survival as some kind of post modern privateer, yet you think even the mere possibility of economic/govt collapse is unrealistic.

Roll. Eyes.


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[Daylen]

Lol. Mining in the most inhospitable place on this planet (where any kind of mining is currently illegal and likely to stay that way) or eking out economic survival as some kind of post modern privateer, yet you think even the mere possibility of economic/govt collapse is unrealistic.

Roll. Eyes.


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Illegal? I think not. Its only illegal for nations and their companies to exploit it, as established by treaty. If I go there unaffiliated, defend my claim and sell to who will buy then its not so illegal. I didn't say privateer, nor mean such, just left it ambiguous. If most of the world is turned into http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor then there are not many realistic possibilities for survival.